What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Topics of a general nature regarding snowsports, which don't easily fit into one of our other Liftlines categories. This is also the place to post Letters to the Editor.

Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby Marc_C » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:46 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:I note the 100 days by BobbyD in a below average Utah season. How many in 2004-05 and/or 2010-11?

This is Utah. The number of days anyone gets in is far more dependent on schedules, time off, injuries, other commitments, etc than it ever is on snow conditions or quantity.
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby Admin » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:52 pm

Marc_C wrote:
Tony Crocker wrote:I note the 100 days by BobbyD in a below average Utah season. How many in 2004-05 and/or 2010-11?

This is Utah. The number of days anyone gets in is far more dependent on schedules, time off, injuries, other commitments, etc than it ever is on snow conditions or quantity.


As was especially the case with Bobby this year.

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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby Tony Crocker » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:37 pm

MarcC wrote:The number of days anyone gets in is far more dependent on schedules, time off, injuries, other commitments, etc than it ever is on snow conditions or quantity.

That's why admin made it to 101 days in 2010-11 and had fewer than I did in 2011-12, right?
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby Admin » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:01 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:
MarcC wrote:The number of days anyone gets in is far more dependent on schedules, time off, injuries, other commitments, etc than it ever is on snow conditions or quantity.

That's why admin made it to 100 in 2010-11 and had less than I did in 2011-12, right?


Tony, I made it to 101 in 2010-11 because I had more time to do it - a longer season and a more permissive job situation. That was precisely what Marc_C was telling you. Bobby this season had some unique circumstances that I won't discuss here that gave him more time on the hill - which is also precisely what Marc_C was telling you.


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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby Bobby Danger » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:28 pm

job issues and a not to serious position on finding another location to work , added up to me skiing a large portion of every day or the entire day , from march 6th to april 26th with only 6 days off the hill , it's been a few years since putting together a string of weeks like that . it's easy living 25minutes from the tram to loose count of reality (especially when it's dumping) !! .....88days the season before , and the season before that i believe was one of the big years was 104 days , skied till aug. 10 that season
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby Tony Crocker » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:02 pm

admin wrote:a longer season

It's not an either-or situation. One's personal circumstances and the length/quality of the season both influence the number of ski days. The difference between BobbyD's 104 in 2010-11 and 88 in 2011-12 is mostly length/quality of the season, while the bump back to 100 this year is more personal. For some of the "powder snobs" in Utah I suspect the difference in ski days between the contrasting 2010-11 and 2011-12 seasons was larger.
Nathan Rafferty wrote:Rafferty said destination guests "saved the day" this year [referring to the 10% decline in Utah skier visits in 2011-12]. Locals can be fickle and used to great powder days, he said, whereas destination guests have dates in mind for vacation and make the best of what the resorts offer.
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby Admin » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:34 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:
admin wrote:a longer season

It's not an either-or situation. One's personal circumstances and the length/quality of the season both influence the number of ski days.


Please use my entire quote, rather than a three-word phrase, so as to not take it out of context as you have intentionally done above.

Admin in total wrote:Tony, I made it to 101 in 2010-11 because I had more time to do it - a longer season and a more permissive job situation.


Thus:
a. I contended that both a longer season and my personal situation contributed to the >100-day season for me. We actually agree on that point, so why are you arguing?
b. I further contend that the "quality" of the season makes no difference for me because even the disappointing 2011-12 season was better than a good year in 95%-plus other destinations. Marc_C said as much, albeit in a different way in his post above, as did Bobby in his post. When exactly was the last time you lived here??
c. Who do you think knows more about how and why I get a certain number of days in a season, you or me? :roll: How about Bobby, do you think that you know more about why Bobby does something than Bobby himself? How about Marc_C?

Stop arguing solely for the sake of doing so, it's extremely annoying.
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby jamesdeluxe » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:00 pm

I'm going to complain to the webmaster and head moderator about the poor behavior of the webmaster and head moderator.
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby Marc_C » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:02 am

Hey, on this site you get what you pay for! That would include the old-married-couple-like bickering.
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby Patrick » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:09 pm

Marc_C wrote:
Tony Crocker wrote:I note the 100 days by BobbyD in a below average Utah season. How many in 2004-05 and/or 2010-11?

This is Utah. The number of days anyone gets in is far more dependent on schedules, time off, injuries, other commitments, etc than it ever is on snow conditions or quantity.


It might not be a uniquely Utah case. If you are a dedicated skiers and live close to a ski areas, you'll be your days in no matter way and snow conditions aren't really going to affect that number much. At least not in my case, Marc C hits in bang on why numbers changed from year to year. In my case, it has dictated my season for as long as I remember. I know I'm not the only one locally that the main factor is availability to ski (injuries, schedules, etc).
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby Bobby Danger » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:42 pm

admin wrote.....how about Bobby, do you think that you know more about why Bobby does something than himself ..... some of the finest minds in the country have been trying for years to answer the question.... WHY.... the jurys still out on the very question admin has posed , but the only real thing that matters is the fact that summers almost done and it's almost time to start living again..... been a miserably hot summer so far
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby J.Spin » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:12 pm

As I’ve done before, I’m passing along part of our J&E Productions 2012-2013 Ski Season Summary, which focuses on the Northern Greens. Long story short, it was a subpar season, but not horribly so. Powder outings still comprised ~77% of the total as detailed in the list of reports below, which is essentially that same as it was for the previous couple of seasons. After tabulating that number across three seasons representing above average, below average, and well below average snowfall, it’s interesting how invariant that number has been; more details are included in the Snow Quality section in this post or the full report.

Snowfall: Compared to the snowfall-deficient 2011-2012 Ski Season, the 2012-2013 Ski Season was certainly a step up, but it was still generally below average for snowfall in the mountains of Northern Vermont. It was Bolton Valley that seemed to fare the worst of the northern resorts along the spine of the Green Mountains, perhaps due to their west slope location and this season’s dearth of upslope snow; they reported just 78.5% of their average snowfall. Heading northward, Stowe and Smugg’s fared a bit better at around 85% of average, and Jay Peak reported roughly average snowfall. Down at our house in the Winooski Valley, snowfall was 88.6% of average, so not too shabby by most accounts, but a bit below the mean like some of the local mountains. These past two seasons have actually been the first pair delivering back-to-back below average snowfall in our area since we started keeping track in 2006. Those numbers can be seen in both our Waterbury Winter Weather Summary Table, and the table of Bolton Valley annual snowfall below; this past season’s snowfall is highlighted in blue:

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One item of note this season was the lack of big storms targeting Northern New England – two of the largest storms to hit the Northeast dropped the bulk of their payloads south of Vermont while exiting stage right toward the Atlantic. The first of those, nicknamed “Nemo”, hit in the second week of February, and pounded Southern New England with up to 40 inches of snow. The Green Mountains were on the northern fringe of that storm, but still wound up with 1 to 1.5 feet of snow up and down the spine. The other storm of note was during the March 5th – 8th period, and it dropped another 30 inches on some Southern New England locations, but nothing way up north. There were some periods of snowfall to highlight up in Northern Vermont however. The second half of December alone dropped almost 50” of snow down at our house, significantly more in the mountains, and produced some fantastic skiing for the holidays and into early January. Another period of note was the second half of March into April. Cold temperatures in the latter part of the season helped preserve wintry conditions on the slopes, and we received some decent snowfall as well – the largest storm for the season in my valley records hit the area near the end of March, with 21.3” of snow down at the house, and multiple feet for the mountains. The mountain snowpack finally responded during that late season stretch as well, and that’s detailed a bit more in the snowpack section below. Snowfall continued right into mid April, and the season was capped off with almost two feet of fresh snow on Mt. Mansfield for Memorial Day weekend. That was a sweet way to end the powder skiing for the season.

Snowpack: Aside from the spikes associated with a couple of early season storms, the mountain snowpack was below average going into mid December. That changed quickly though, with the onset of all that new snow during the second half of the month. The above average snowpack achieved during the holidays didn’t actually stay that way during January’s warmth and lack of storms. After consolidation, the snowpack generally trundled along at or below average through February’s continuation of relatively low snowfall. From mid February to mid March, the snowpack sat there essentially stagnant for an entire month; to wit, on February 21st, the snowpack was at 65”, and roughly a month later on March 18th, it was still at 65”, without any notable consolidation of more than a few inches. The late season stretch from mid March to mid April represented a nice rebound for the mountains however, with some quick gains from the big Northern New England March storm getting it above average, and the snow depth staying at least modestly above during the period.

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Tree Skiing: One metric used as a rough guide for the start of off piste skiing in the Northern Green Mountains is the point at which the snow depth reaches 24” at the Mt. Mansfield stake. For those unfamiliar with how this metric was established, it’s described in some detail in the 2011-2012 ski season summary. With the incorporation of this season’s data, the mean date remains at December 12th ± 19 days, with an average depth at the stake of 25.9 ± 2.7 inches. After the very slow start in 2011-2012, in which the 24” depth wasn’t attained until January 3rd (more than a standard deviation later than the mean), this past season was notably earlier. The plot below shows the date at which 24” was obtained for each season since 1954, with 2011-2012 shown in red, and 2012-2013 shown in green:

Image

This past season, the date (December 22nd, Depth=28”, Green Star) was still later than average due in part to the slow first half of December, but unlike last season it was well within the 1 S.D. bars (thin vertical black lines). Note that the 24” mark is being used as an indicator of when the first forays into appropriate off piste/tree skiing terrain typically start in the Central and Northern Greens. In terms of empirical tree skiing observations, personal experience again lends some support to the use of 24” mark this season, as we began venturing into the trees the very next day on December 23rd at Bolton Valley. It should be noted though, that while the 24” mark was attained on December 22nd this season, the 40” mark was attained the very next day on December 23rd. The 40-inch rule (i.e. reaching a depth of 40” at the stake), is used as an indicator of when most off piste/tree skiing around here is ready to go. Although I haven’t looked into the data, this season has got to represent one of the quickest ascents from 24” to 40” – it’s interesting to note however that after rising to 42” of depth on December 23rd and 24th, the snowpack settled back to 36” for a couple of days before rebounding to 45” on the 27th.

Snow Quality: As an monitor of snow quality for the season, the chronological list of our ski outings has once again been compiled, with those days in which we were skiing powder indicated by a P, and those days in which powder skiing wasn’t available indicated by an X. The availability of powder suggests a fairly high level of snow quality, and the absence of powder generally indicates that temperatures rose above freezing at all elevations. Each listing below represents a link to the full report where images and more information from the outing can be obtained. Outings with an X may still be providing decent skiing such as wet snow, corn, etc. (or else skiing was typically avoided) but aside from the spring period, there’s going to be a price to pay in terms of snow quality associated with these episodes when temperatures eventually cool back down. The pattern of snow conditions in the Northern Green Mountains was fairly typical this past winter, with those days lacking powder skiing showing up in three distinct periods: 1) the early season with its usual temperature fluctuations, up through mid December before the weather pattern changed and the cold weather stabilized, 2) a thaw period in mid January, and 3) the period starting in mid March where spring weather began to make inroads. However, with the way the weather patterns this past spring continued to provide cool temperatures and snowfall, powder skiing generally dominated until mid April. Having analyzed the skiing in this way for the past three seasons, a surprising level of consistency is noted, with an overall average of close to four out of five days providing powder, despite notable differences in the demeanor of these recent ski seasons. The 2010-2011 season, which was above average in snowfall, provided powder on 78% of outings, the 2011-2012 season, which was well below average in many ways, revealed the same 78%, and most recently the 2012-2013 season, which was slightly below average in this area, produced a very similar 77% of outings with powder. The percentages don’t take into account differences in the number of outings each season, but with all three seasons falling into the range of 50 to 60 ski outings, differences in the sample sizes aren’t huge. The list of categorized ski outings with links to their full reports follows below:

P Stowe, VT, Sunday 04NOV2012
X Stowe, VT, Sunday 11NOV2012
X Stowe, VT, Thursday 15NOV2012
P Stowe, VT, Friday 30NOV2012
P Stowe, VT, Saturday, 01DEC2012
X Stowe, VT, Saturday, 15DEC2012
P Bolton Valley, VT, Friday 21DEC2012
P Bolton Valley, VT, Saturday 22DEC2012
P Bolton Valley, VT, Sunday 23DEC2012
P Bolton Valley, VT, Thursday 27DEC2012
P Bolton Valley, VT, Friday 28DEC2012
P Bolton Valley, VT, Saturday 29DEC2012
P Bolton Valley, VT, Saturday 29DEC2012 (Night)
P Bolton Valley, VT, Sunday 30DEC2012
P Bolton Valley, VT, Monday 31DEC2012
P Bolton Valley, VT, Tuesday 01JAN2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Saturday 05JAN2013
P Stowe, VT, Sunday 06JAN2013
X Bolton Valley, VT, Saturday 12JAN2013
X Stowe, VT, Sunday 13JAN2013
P Bolton Valley Nordic & Backcountry, VT, Saturday 19JAN2013
P Stowe Sidecountry & Bruce Trail, VT, Monday 21JAN2013
P Bolton Valley Nordic & Backcountry, VT, Sunday 27JAN2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Tuesday 29JAN2013
P Stowe, VT, Sunday 03FEB2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Saturday 09FEB2013
P Stowe, VT, Sunday 10FEB2013
P Stowe, VT, Thursday 14FEB2013
P Bolton Valley & Backcountry, VT, Saturday 16FEB2013
P Bolton Valley & Backcountry, VT, Monday 18FEB2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Thursday, 21FEB2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Saturday 23FEB2013
P Stowe, VT, Sunday 24FEB2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Tuesday 26FEB2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Thursday 28FEB2013
P Bolton Valley & Backcountry, VT, Saturday 02MAR2013
P Stowe, VT, Sunday 03MAR2013
P Bolton Valley & Backcountry, VT, Saturday 09MAR2013
X Stowe, VT, Sunday 10MAR2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Saturday 16MAR2013
P Stowe, VT, Sunday 17MAR2013
P Stowe, VT, Tuesday 19MAR2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Thursday 21MAR2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Thursday 21MAR2013 (Evening)
P Bolton Valley, VT, Saturday 23MAR2013
P Stowe, VT, Sunday 24MAR2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Saturday 30MAR2013
X Stowe, VT, Sunday 31MAR2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Tuesday 02APR2013
P Stowe & Mt. Mansfield Chin, VT, Saturday 06APR2013
X Stowe & Mt. Mansfield Chin, VT, Sunday 07APR2013
P Stowe, VT, Saturday 13APR2013
P Bolton Valley, VT, Sunday 14APR2013
X Stowe, VT, Saturday 20APR2013
X Stowe, VT, Sunday 21APR2013
X Bolton Valley, VT, Sunday 28APR2013
X Sugarbush, VT, Saturday 04MAY2013
X Stowe, VT, Sunday, 05MAY2013
X Mt. Washington, NH, Saturday 18MAY2013
P Stowe, VT, Sunday 26MAY2013

Below I’m adding the monthly images used in the detailed month-by-month section of the summary. The detailed monthly text can be found along with some closing thoughts in the full report:

http://jandeproductions.com/2013/10/13/2012-2013-ski-season-summary/

October
Image

November
Image

December
Image

January
Image

February
Image

March
Image

April
Image

May
Image
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby jamesdeluxe » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:19 pm

No one shoots better northeast pix than J Spin.

I think that's a new record for hyperlinks inside one post! :-)
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby J.Spin » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:46 am

jamesdeluxe wrote:No one shoots better northeast pix than J Spin.

Thanks James, I think a lot of it is simply because we get the best snow; when you get it in quantity and quality that’s matching or exceeding many places in the Western U.S., it sort of makes it easy. On that note, snow is definitely starting to creep into the forecast here, so it looks like we’re transitioning into that whiter 2/3 of the year.
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Re: What Happened to the Season Recap Thread?

Postby coldsmoke » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:20 am

J.Spin wrote:I think a lot of it is simply because we get the best snow; when you get it in quantity and quality that’s matching or exceeding many places in the Western U.S., it sort of makes it easy.


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