Snow stats for Tony to look at

Topics of a general nature regarding snowsports, which don't easily fit into one of our other Liftlines categories. This is also the place to post Letters to the Editor.

Snow stats for Tony to look at

Postby Patrick » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:49 pm

This link has been referred by another website. A topic and table that Tony will probably have multiples issues with.

First, I'll copy their disclaimer:
As you may be aware there are well over 1000 ski resorts world wide that we know of.We have exercised our due diligence to assist you with your search for powder to the best of our ability. If we have made omissions of the lower key or smaller resorts we apologize. If you have credible stats to add to our collection drop us a line.


Well over a 1000 ski resorts? That is an understatement, I think that there are probably close to 1000 in North America alone.

Historical Snowfall statistics for ski resorts.
http://www.ski-adventure-guide.com/hist ... wfall.html

I personally would trust Tony's site before looking at this one.
http://bestsnow.net/

Okay, Tony have fun pointing the errors.
Ski Mad World
A blog of MadPat's World: A History of Skiing Geography
http://madpatski.wordpress.com
User avatar
Patrick
 
Posts: 4729
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:19 am
Location: The Great Trip 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Re: Snow stats for Tony to look at

Postby Tony Crocker » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:52 pm

Many numbers on that site are reasonable, and some are so close to what I have that I wonder if my site is the source. There are a few round numbers that are probably "brochure quotes." The ones that aren't reasonable or otherwise worthy of comment:
Jackson Hole 500: The new since 1998 Bridger gondola site is probably over 400, but it's cherry-picking. The long term mid-mountain average of 369 is the one to use, particularly since Jackson has considerably more terrain below that elevation than above it.
Nagano Japan 433: The Nagano Valley is well inland from the west coast and would not get nearly that much snow. The Nagano Olympic events were held in the Hakuba Valley to the west. The main area Happo One there probably gets aound 350 and the small Hakuba Cortina area to the north and closest to the coast in that area is probably over 400.
Banff Canada 400: This is probably the most overstated number I've seen anywhere, and in fairness I've never before heard of any of the resorts there claiming that much. The real numbers, all mid-mountain, are Sunshine 254, Louise 166 and Norquay 107.
Big Sky 400: Long term mid-mountain 261. We've :dead horse: several times before.
Powder Mt. 400: It's nice to see them not claim 500, which is not reasonable in any way. Based on relationship with Snowbasin the real number is probably in the 350-375 range.
Chamonix France 377: I wouldn't completely rule this out from, say the top of Grands Montets, though even there I suspect it's very unlikely. The highest official number I've seen from the Alps is 346 at mid-mountain Andermatt, though secondhand a reliable source claims 400 for Zurs and Warth-Schrocken in Austria. And by the way the 346 at Andermatt is Nov-Apr: for the entire year it's 425. Chamonix does not have the word-of-mouth powder reputation that Andermatt, Zurs and Warth-Schrocken do,
Canyons 355 and Park City 350: Jupiter Bowl averages 366. Park City Summit House averages 291. I would be surprised if anywhere at the Canyons gets any more than Summit House.
Valle Nevado 311 and Portillo 295:
Portillo's long term average is 254. I think Patrick or anyone else who has visited both areas on the same trip will agree that Valle Nevado gets less snow than Portillo. Comparing a handful of seasons, I'd say Valle Nevado is under 200.
The Heavenly and Squaw quotes are accurate for upper locations.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 9819
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

Re: Snow stats for Tony to look at

Postby Geoff » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:06 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:Canyons 355 and Park City 350: Jupiter Bowl averages 366. Park City Summit House averages 291. I would be surprised if anywhere at the Canyons gets any more than Summit House.

Valle Nevado 311 and Portillo 295:
Portillo's long term average is 254. I think Patrick or anyone else who has visited both areas on the same trip will agree that Valle Nevado gets less snow than Portillo. Comparing a handful of seasons, I'd say Valle Nevado is under 200.


9990 at The Canyons has that same microclimate so I'd believe 350 there. The rest of the place always feels pretty snow starved. It's tough to say since so much of it gets sun-baked.

I've been at Valle Nevado twice when they got 10'+ dumps. My one combined experience of Portillo and Valle Nevado, Valle Nevado had more snow pack. 200" at the lodging complex? Probably not. At the top of the high speed quad? I think more than that.
User avatar
Geoff
 
Posts: 764
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:38 pm
Location: Killington, VT

Re: Snow stats for Tony to look at

Postby Admin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:57 pm

Geoff wrote:9990 at The Canyons has that same microclimate so I'd believe 350 there.


I don't know that I agree. The summit of 9990 sits basically where the Mill Creek Canyon/Big Cottonwood Canyon ridgeline meets the Park City ridgeline. This is much further north than Jupiter, which is adjacent to the head of BCC, because BCC's upper part actually makes a bend and turns more southeast into the core of the Wasatch. That puts 9990 much more on the periphery. I can best illustrate what I'm talking about by marking up Google Earth with the relevant POIs and showing you:

Google Earth - 9990 and Jupiter relative to BCC - looking north.jpg
Looking north


Google Earth - 9990 and Jupiter relative to BCC - looking east.jpg
Looking east


If 9990 has a similar microclimate to that of Jupiter, I've sure never witnessed its effects.
Image

Image
User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9976
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:32 am
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Snow stats for Tony to look at

Postby Tony Crocker » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:01 pm

For 3 seasons 2005-2007 Valle Nevado published season to date snowfall on its website. Those seasons were all below Portillo's in aggregate by about 25%. And my personal observation skiing both areas in Sept 2007 was consistent with the stats.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 9819
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

Re: Snow stats for Tony to look at

Postby Admin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:10 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:For 3 seasons 2005-2007 Valle Nevado published season to date snowfall on its website. Those seasons were all below Portillo's in aggregate by about 25%. And my personal observation skiing both areas in Sept 2007 was consistent with the stats.


Thus you're each in large part basing your argument on a single data point.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk 2
Image

Image
User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9976
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:32 am
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Snow stats for Tony to look at

Postby Tony Crocker » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:13 pm

Admin wrote:
Tony Crocker wrote:For 3 seasons 2005-2007 Valle Nevado published season to date snowfall on its website. Those seasons were all below Portillo's in aggregate by about 25%. And my personal observation skiing both areas in Sept 2007 was consistent with the stats.

Thus you're each in large part basing your argument on a single data point.

I think any fair reading of my statement would call my 2007 experience the small part of my argument. 3 years of data from closely correlated areas makes it fairly likely that the observed relationship of snowfall was not coincidental.

FYI I tried getting long term data from Valle Nevado in person direct from management as I did at Portillo. While I was there they said they would e-mail me something later. I never got hard numbers but in one e-mail there was inadvertently an internal correspondence attached which advised not giving the stats out because they wouldn't look very good for marketing.

I suspect admin was chagrined because he actually agreed with me about 9990 vs. Jupiter and had to find something else to nitpick to keep up appearances. :-P
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 9819
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests


All content herein copyright © 1999-2017 First Tracks!! Online Media

Forums Terms & Conditions of Use

cron