An ethical question ...

Something to chew on during the nasty dog days of summer:

So this past spring, I was out on a biggish Northeastern mountain that shall not be named that was on its last weekend of the season. There was much hiking down on bare ground back to the lifts, but the top of the mountain was quite nice with soft corn snow all bumped up and fun. A decent number of trails were open, including some fairly fun ones. Of course, the gnarliest were closed for plain lack of snow, as they are steep and don't hold it and they were obviously not skiable. A few others had decent cover but were roped off. The ropes seemed only a suggestion, however, as folks were ducking under right and left. I started to join in, but on second thought, I stopped. There were good trails not closed, so why duck under when I don't have to?

Am I a prude, a goodie two-shoes, momma's boy for not partaking? Or was it right to not follow the crowd?

I thought about my kids. If they were with me, I'd tell them the people who closed the trail know what they're doing, we have to assume, and they must have a reason, so let's stick to what's open.

Any thoughts?
 
In the East, I generally review ropes as reserving a trail. Out here, it's a whole different story, i.e. avalanche risk, etc.
 
there are a lot of considerations to this question. if you don't duck though, you are a perfectly fine, upstanding, rule abiding citizen and have nothing to be ashamed of. if you didn't feel comfortable, you were definitely right not to follow the crowd. following the crowd has gotten people into trouble before.

generally, i will duck only when i know the trail in question or know that beyond a reasonable doubt that conditions are sufficiently good enough to justify it. often times, a roped trail is a powder stash with some thin cover, especially towards the bottom or in typical 'rough' sections of the trail. this certainly is an encouragement for repeat offenders. the biggest issue is understanding that ducking a rope is the equivelent of leaving ski area boundaries. play it safe and don't be a knucklehead.

i don't duck often, but i have been down enough closed trails with a foot or more of powder to know it is worth the occasional scratch or core shot.
 
I don't duck ropes in the east, simply because I ski mostly at places that the patrol is as pervasive as big brother and i'm most likely to lose my pass. That being said even if they weren't around, I would probably still err on the side of caution. (The irony being that on a open trail, I tend to err on the side of nearly killing myself)

Just my 2 cents (1.8 cents US).
 
Geoff":13kyz4qu said:
In the East, I ski closed trails all the time in the spring.

There always a few factor that I consider before ducking rope.

1) Who is skiing with me?

If my family is around, I will not duck rope. Not a good example for an 8 years old.

Example, Powder day at Smuggs http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=1927
There were a few very temping tracks coming and going to the right side of Madonna (all closed - Drifter, Catwalk, Shuttle). However I wasn't here to be selfish, I was here to ski with my daughter and wife.

What are the abilities of the person skiing with me? If I don't feel he's good enough or don't know him enough, then I will not.

Solo? Not a problem.

2) What are the conditions?

Marginal for the general public, is probably pretty good for me.

3) What is the interest in that "closed" trail.

If it 's a trail that I really like, then I'll go for it. If this is a new area for me, I might consider exploring it.

Other example: Whiteface April 9th

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=2024

TRail count was lower. Major trails closed since last sunday were Mackenzie and Cloudspin. We actually did our last run on Mackenzie (the kids were with their mom), still nice and a bit choppy. Walk or difficult traverse at the bottom was needed as the bottom coverage of the trail had melted away.
 
Patrick":352h7jif said:
If my family is around, I will not duck rope. Not a good example for an 8 years old.

You're a better man - and better father - than me. I distinctly recall poaching at Bromont with The Kid when he was 10. Then again, he was the one egging me on to "poach it." :lol:

A half foot of new, untouched, ungroomed snow weighed heavily on my decision to go for it.
 
Admin":wh5nggk1 said:
Patrick":wh5nggk1 said:
If my family is around, I will not duck rope. Not a good example for an 8 years old.

You're a better man - and better father - than me. I distinctly recall poaching at Bromont with The Kid when he was 10. Then again, he was the one egging me on to "poach it." :lol:

A half foot of new, untouched, ungroomed snow weighed heavily on my decision to go for it.

Knowing you, you might have taking him out poaching at 5 if you had the extra foot of snow at Smuggs. However Smuggs isn't Bromont. Danger of skiing a closed run at Smuggs is probably more dangerous.

I'm sure that Lucky Luke can vouch for that, he's the only one I know that has had a season pass at Smuggs then Bromont. For his defense, he had to move to Bromont for that to happen. :lol:
 
Patrick":1czzpigf said:
Knowing you, you might have taking him out poaching at 5 if you had the extra foot of snow at Smuggs. However Smuggs isn't Bromont. Danger of skiing a closed run at Smuggs is probably more dangerous.

I've still got a lump on my lower leg, about 3 inches in diameter and a raised by a half to three-quarters of an inch, from skiing a closed trail four years ago at Smuggs. Well, actually it was a private stash woods run that we could only access via a closed trail. There was a deadfallen evergreen below the surface of the snow, and I hit the stubs from old, dead branches on the side of the trunk at warp 3. One stabbed me just above the boottop and ripped the muscle, resulting in that lovely lump on my left leg.
 
do it and do it fast!

what rope? i thought there was a gate and i just passed it. oops! sorry. my bad. won't happen again....

however, not on a busy day like the last weekend of the season though. just hike it after the weekend. if that's not worth it, than it's not worth it to duck.

at your own risk. on your own. you may die. no help available. etc etc. as long as you're aware of this then i don't see the problem, and probably a few others don't either, but history has shown us that this doesn't work for the masses. people are dumb, accidents happen and blame anyone but themselves, expect nothing to happen, sometimes press charges, etc. etc. and most patrol are "as pervasive as big brother".

all in all personally; it depends
 
I duck ropes on a regular basis. I regularly ski in closed trails on powder nights in Bromont (all the goodie is in the unlighted trails), at Smuggs I was always skiing in the state park. On a glorious powder day this winter at Le Massif, I showed my 10 years old kid how to duck swiftly a rope to have the downhill run to ourself. He ended up straped by his feet to the rope, but that's another story :wink:. He needs a little more experience that I gained in years of ducking ropes. The run was perfectly groomed, one of the steepest trail in the east, we skied it at the speed of sound. He reminded me that same day that there is no friends on a powder day (that's another question that I absolutely have no ethic for) cause we were skiing with a group of about 10 who were talking to much. So Alex, my son, told me to get rid of those friends, "we'll see them at the party after skiing"he told, I agreed and we skied just the two of us. I think that people showing their kids how to pass others in the liftlines should have a bigger ethic question on their mind. Their showing their kids that they are a lot more important then all the loosers wating in line. :evil: Here's two pics of Alex on that no friend powder day :D :D
 

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