Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:42 am
The numbers I quoted above were from Quebec Ski Association website, I just checked with Sutton's site and the 194" is part of their lower range. Numbers indicated are 194"-220".
Yep, a huge difference. Base elevation at Sutton is 1312' (400m) versus 1815' (553m) at Jay. From one of the discussion I had last year in my quest for Sutton snow data numbers, I was told that snow was measured at the base of the area.
Here are the historical numbers from there website (no range - only one number):
http://www.montsutton.com/en/useful_inf ... _info.aspx
From a discussion about snow totals on ZS, I know some people are a bit skeptical those Jay numbers, as well as the VAL D'IRENE numbers. I also know that the snow varies also a lot at Sutton. Not sure were the second spot on the mountain is placed? Summit of ski area is 2822' (860m) versus 3198' (975m) for the actual summit of Mont Sutton. Summit of Jay Peak is 3968' (1290m).
Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:42 pm
The six areas I mentioned were not an attempt to be comprehensive. I just think I've read enough FTO reports from those areas to form a fairly strong impression. Given the proximity to Northern Vermont and a few reports, I'm sure Sutton and Orford can be quite interesting. I know I saw (? pea-soup fog and rain-soaked snow) Le Massif in adverse circumstances, but it wasn't obvious there was much off-trail skiing. Massif du Sud and the Saguenay areas might be intriguing based upon admin's features.Again, you need to extend your zone into Quebec along the Appalachian + the Charlevoix/Saguenay regions which also get a good dumps.
I am not that impressed with eastern groomers (mostly too flat) based on what I've seen. Nosedive and Hayride were probably the best I've skied. The gondola runs at at Stowe were flat enough to have sticky snow on March 16. Stoneham, as I've mentioned before, is a clone of Snow Summit. Despite joegm's laments, I'm in some respects most impressed with the moguls (MRG in March 2003, Superstar in April 1990 and November 1993) in terms of challenge in the East.And when you mentioned decent conditions, you talk only in terms of powder. Perfect grooming isn't always that bad?
Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:40 pm
Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:32 pm
jamesdeluxe wrote:Nothing to add to this conversation; just wanted to say how much I enjoy the dynamic of ECers trying to convince the all-knowing out-of-towner -- who doles out just enough praise to avoid appearing completely unreasonable, but not enough to satisfy their need for his approval -- that our ski areas are more interesting than he gives them credit for ("love me, Daddy!").
Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:56 am
Tony Crocker wrote:The local areas in Montana are a soft spot in my knowledge. There's an EpicSki poster VolantAddict who lives in Missoula that you might want to contact. It's also 2-3 hours from Big Mountain, which is a pretty good area. Missoula is probably next best to Bozeman of the larger cities, and I wouldn't go any lower on the list. Montana is of highest value to those for whom getting away from crowds is top priority. JSpin's reports from Lost Trail give a good impression of this.
Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:01 am
Patrick wrote:If we're purely concerned with skiing? I would pick J.Spin location in Waterbury. Ah yes, Waterbury isn't a metropolitan area.
jamesdeluxe wrote:I drove through Waterbury the other day and was thinking about how well placed it is -- a few minutes to Bolton, Mad River Valley and Stowe/Smuggs, 30-40 minutes to Kmart/Pico and Burke/Jay within an hour. Nice.
riverc0il wrote:If I could pick a town to live in Vermont without consideration for current employment, it would most certainly be the Waterbury area. Though Kmart and Pico are MUCH further than 30-40 minutes. IIRC, It is almost an hour from Kmart to Mad River Glen alone. Burke would be slightly longer than an hour but close enough but I think Jay would be slightly longer than an hour as well. Probably both of those in the 1:15 range or so pending favorable traffic and weather. The key areas of Mad River, Stowe, and Bush are right there and just over an hour to Jay isn't much worse than my current setup though Route 100 instead of the 91 deal would be a royal pain. Though at that location, I would probably consider a pass to Mad River and take the $39 Vermonter ticket at Jay when it would be the better bet. Skinning options from that region are off the hook, practically backcountry options in your backyard. It would be two hours from Mount Washington instead of one hour for the draw back. But having Burlington right up the Interstate would be the key to seal the deal despite the drawbacks of travel to Jay/Burke/Cannon/Mount Washington etc. compared to my current locations. But then again, that would be relocation specific which just is not happening at this point.
Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:38 am
Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:58 pm
Patrick wrote:Tony Crocker wrote:There are very few people for whom skiing is a high priority that move back East after they have lived in a western location convenient to skiing, though I know we have at least 2 here on FTO.
I don't think that Hamdog and JSpin regret their choices. It was interesting to speak to Hamdog on Feb 15 and I believe that he was telling me that he was having a great year, better than it he would stayed in Montana.
If I would moved out West, it wouldn't be because of the superior skiing, but more for a change of diet. I lived in the East all my life and at one point it's nice to experience something else.
Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:05 pm
Unfortunately most of that smoke is what's being blown in your face by marketing directors quoting snowfall averages. The numbers I have on http://bestsnow.net/nrocnet.htm for Big Mountain, Big Sky and Bridger are based upon 85, 115 and 146 months of data respectively, so I'm quite confident of their accuracy. JSpin, or any other observant skier who lives in a region for awhile, can usually sort out the relative snowfall of the areas in that region. And once you've been to a lot of areas you get a good feel for what a 400-inch (Lookout) or 300-inch (Lost Trail) mountain should look like. He didn't need me to to tell him that the 400 quote for Big Sky was fishy. I think we can dismiss Snowbowl's 300 claim by comparing to Lost Trail. We can probably dismiss Red Lodge's 250 by comparing to Big Sky/Bridger, which actually get just slightly more than 250. The 300 claim for Teton Pass is highly suspicious based on geographic location.I had kinda assumed Montana was pretty much all cold smoke
Based upon natural snowfall that's a defensible argument, and we know from JSpin's reports that he's powder-centric. But Montana's claim to fame, especially at a place like Lost Trail, is extremely low skier density even relative to other western regions. So I have to believe that JSpin was getting more lift served powder (multiple days after storms) in Montana. This is somewhat evidenced by the number of days he's going for earn-your-turns skiing in Vermont.For a local skier in Northern Vermont with a relatively flexible schedule, vs. a similar skier in Western Montana, the skiing isn?t necessarily all that different.
One more reason Patrick's proposed quantification will be difficult. For example, I'm presuming scale/variety is less important to JSpin than to many of us, because he's not running off to Jay/Stowe/Mad River Valley in Vermont (even though they are closer) any more often than he was hitting Big Mountain/Big Sky in Montana.That?s going to depend on the skier of course
Wed May 09, 2007 11:06 pm
Wed May 09, 2007 11:39 pm
This was my quote earlier in this thread.Similarly someone with a structured schedule might prefer Denver for Colorado's consistent snow conditions, while the flexible powder hound would prefer Seattle for the bigger dumps and steeper terrain.