Yeah, but when you ski with Patrick, you realize that he can back it up. Which is why I'm surprised he isn't more bored with the smaller hills.
Ski Commutes, Boredom with Closer, Smaller Hills
- Thread starter Tony Crocker
- Start date
Patrick
Active member
Tony Crocker":1cw0yzp1 said:
Because I rarely ski for a full day locally. :wink: To be honest, I was totally bored when I moved here 13 years ago... Gates and kids have made it interesting. Skiing local for me is often more a workout and getting fresh air. Going to the gym is fine for a few hours, but not a whole day (at least for me).
Ottawa showpack update: Rain for maybe 10 hours today, heavy at times. Showpack on my lawn is maybe down to 30-40cm, about a 50-60% drop in one day.
The good news is that this warm weather ends tonight and some snow tomorrow.Bored, yes this could be another topic all on its own. It goes without saying that I would rather be down at MRG , Jay , Stowe etc and there was a time when I did spend all my time down in VT. Now 3 kids later most of the good areas are out of the price range because its one thing buying a single ticket but buying 4 or 5 is a whole different story except for MRG who remembered us duct taped skiers and allowed us to continue going by offering free passes for our kids. Anyway, no regrets now focused on developing the kids into great skiers so always looking out for any ungroomed terrain for a cheap price.
Patrick
Active member
Anthony":1irnwzhk said:
I was just mentioning it, because you were talking about people not skiing the whole day. Tired or Bored? :wink:
Anthony":1irnwzhk said:
That's my argument with Tony on "why Ottawa is a better option for skiing than Los Angeles". I totally agree on this and you're definitely in a better location than I am.
Since Patrick keeps bringing this up, I'll have to remind him of Adam's progress vs. Morgane's at comparable ages.
L.A. locals >>> Ottawa locals for terrain and Big Bear probably has a more consistent season. Baldy, when it has snow (about 30% as often, fortuitously including Adam's 6,7&8 year old seasons), is like having Stowe or MRG an hour from home.
Mammoth vs. the rest of the East, I doubt anyone wants to go there. The argument for the East, which is being conclusively demonstrated by JSpin and his kids, is the convenience of short distance to Vermont-level terrain and snow. Even at age 4-5 it's obvious that Ty is progressing faster than Adam did.
But from what I see, Morgane is skiing "real mountains" in the East less often than Adam was skiing Mammoth or western destinations. So in terms of teaching kids the distance/convenience factor of Ottawa seems to be no better than here. I have Adam's data easily available in case Patrick wants to compare notes.
Patrick
Active member
Tony Crocker":xlmhlr8b said:But from what I see, Morgane is skiing "real mountains" in the East less often than Adam was skiing Mammoth or western destinations. So in terms of teaching kids the distance/convenience factor of Ottawa seems to be no better than here. I have Adam's data easily available in case Patrick wants to compare notes.
Apples and Oranges again. :wink: Teaching and "real mountains" aren't necessarily corollated.
An excepts from White Circus by Ken Read (although I have the book at home, I found this quote on the internet).
Fortune is 15-20 minutes from downtown, 20km only.
While we're at it, let's add another contraversal remark (related to Eastern ability to adapt better to the West). :lol:
You need to be able to walk, before you can fly. :wink: Walk here means sharpening your skills before you hit the "easy" Western conditions. :wink: :lol:
Anyways, I'm not sure what type of skier Morgane will become, she's more into the biathlon/triathlon. (skiing and Harp playing OR skiing/Harp and Arts). :wink:
Adam was in Los Angeles Children's Chorus from 4th through 8th grades, with 3 choir practices per week. During those seasons he still averaged 19 ski days and 355K vertical.
The average eastern skier has a learning curve to ski steeps and powder. We should not use examples such as Ken Read or Patrick to presume how the average kid (or adult for that matter) learns to ski. The average kid, like Adam and Morgane, has school and other activities consuming much of their time. They will learn to ski based part on instruction but more on what kind of skiing they enjoy most and practice doing.
A child primarily confined to molehills is more likely to get bored and/or give another hobby higher priority unless they get totally focused on a niche aspect of skiing like racing or terrain parks where the molehill can provide the challenge and progression. Less likely to get bored in Vermont and very unlikely to get bored at Mammoth IMHO.
The average eastern skier has a learning curve to ski steeps and powder. We should not use examples such as Ken Read or Patrick to presume how the average kid (or adult for that matter) learns to ski. The average kid, like Adam and Morgane, has school and other activities consuming much of their time. They will learn to ski based part on instruction but more on what kind of skiing they enjoy most and practice doing.
A child primarily confined to molehills is more likely to get bored and/or give another hobby higher priority unless they get totally focused on a niche aspect of skiing like racing or terrain parks where the molehill can provide the challenge and progression. Less likely to get bored in Vermont and very unlikely to get bored at Mammoth IMHO.
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Patrick, please concede the argument, je t'en prie. [-o<
You've noticed that I've stopped bringing up the fact that the worst skating rink I've ever dealt with was Snowbird in Jan 2003... you can do the same with the learning-to-ski discussion.
You've noticed that I've stopped bringing up the fact that the worst skating rink I've ever dealt with was Snowbird in Jan 2003... you can do the same with the learning-to-ski discussion.
This point is undoubtedly true. I am fortunate enough to live on the right side of the city in terms of driving to either local mountains or Mammoth. If you want easy distance to the beach/surf you'll take on more aggravation getting to the mountains. But at least we have that choice.
Patrick
Active member
:lol:jamesdeluxe":1b9qjvj2 said:
I wasn't conceding, but I've been busy skiing the last two days on the local mole hills + mother is in town + Santa brought us a few DVD bookset.
Tony, you seem to forget that I have more than one skiing daughter. :wink: Yesterday Cascades and today was Powder day at mighty Pakenham. I believe I did a total of 700m vertical in over 4 hours. It was fun. 8) Tara had a few face shots today :roll: , but they could also be called face plants. (ps. Tara is 5).
It is unlikely that I will ever convince Patrick. He and his kids are exactly the same ages (42, 10 and 5) that we were 12 years ago. Patrick's current ski seasons are probably better than mine were at that time, but his kids' seasons definitely are not.
Due to the distance issue making quality powder opportunities rare, I started with the annual cat or heli skiing trips at age 44.
Due to the distance issue making quality powder opportunities rare, I started with the annual cat or heli skiing trips at age 44.
Patrick
Active member
River's situation is entirely different than mine. My compromise isn't due to the easier commute, but to my family situation (activities, skiing). It doesn't make sense to be a weekend warrior and drive long hours when kids are in the car and you can find good skiing (although small) only 30 minutes away.Tony Crocker":wffexixk said:
Prior to having kids in my first few years in Ottawa, my ski days were pretty much over 2 hours away. However at that time, my constraints were mostly job related then with a new baby. Didn't stop me from making long road trips, however I didn't have as much time.
First 6 seasons in Ottawa. Years prior to Morgane's first real season on skis.
1994-95: Started new job in Ottawa in November, moved to town on SuperBowl weekend. (24 days)
1995-96: we got married in March (27 days)
1996-97: Work at my current job with serious overtime hours (18 )
1997-98: Morgane was born in October (15)
1998-99: 23 times
1999-2000: 22 times. Morgane on ski in March.
Cut & Paste...
Tremblant, QC 32
Killington, VT 13
Whiteface, NY 12
Lake Louise, AB 7
Sunday River, ME 7
Mad River Glen, VT 6
Sutton, QC 6
Fortune (local) 5
Sunshine, AB 5
Ste-Anne, QC 4
Cannon, NH 4
Stowe, VT 4
Blackcomb, BC 3
Edelweiss (local) 3
Sugarloaf, ME 3
Whistler, BC 3
Ste-Marie (biggest local) 2
Gray Rocks, QC 2
Jay Peak, VT 2
St-Sauveur-Avila, QC 1
Tuckerman, NH 1
Bromont, QC 1
Vorlage (local) 1
Owl's Head, QC 1
Sugarbush, VT 1
Exactly my point in this combined thread. The distance factor slows down the kid instruction curve even more than than it impacts the ski quality for us fanatics.
The distance and family obligation impediments to skiing are not independent. The combination results in both more ski days missed and more often compromising quality. If you know you're going to have lots of family obligations, arranging a convenient location becomes even more important. Not having to use as many vacation days and $ for destination ski trips for example. Admin has barely set foot outside Utah on skis since he moved there 3 years ago.
Patrick
Active member
Tony Crocker":luxp3vm2 said:
I agree on the distance factor, however you don't agree about my locals (regardless of size) being as good a factor in their instruction than if I was next door to Tremblant. This is speaking as a kid you grew up next to Tremblant and comparing progress in other people my age or not. I also know that Lucky Luke's kids are pretty amazing skiers and they almost exclusively ski at Bromont. The main factor in their instruction curve is mileage, mileage, mileage (with the proper basics).
I would be interested in hearing J.Spin's spin on this. I know
I think we've hijacked River's thread long enough...so you can move this in the appropriate place.
When the kids acquire advanced ski skills, they too become bored with the smaller hills. When Adam skied 29K at Vail at Morgane's age (10), at the end of the day he asked, "Where's the steep stuff?" I realize that I have spoiled my kid, but my point is that an advanced kid is going to have similar reactions as an advanced adult to terrain quality, challenge, snow conditions, etc.
Given Morgane's already expressed enthusiasm for MRG, I suspect she's not all that excited about the Ottawa locals. And I also suspect her powder learning curve might be a bit behind where JSpin's kids will be at parallel ages.
I agree, but the kid will be more inclined to put in that mileage when the skiing is interesting and appropriate for his/her ability.