BOYNE/USA BANS BLOGGER FROM PROPERTY

bosshogg":13phu5i5 said:
Here are the links to the sugarloaftoday.com discussion and the Teton Gravity Research discussion:

http://sugarloaftoday.com/chat/viewtopic.php?t=2415

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/show ... p?t=150315

and a funny piece from the CV Daily Planet:

http://sugarloaftoday.com/chat/viewtopic.php?t=2416

Thanks Bosshogg for the info. That is sad news, I only thought that stories like that happened in South America. :roll:

Keep us posted if something else turned up on this story. Where are our old posters from the Loaf?
 
Long-time Sugarloaf (Maine) resort skier gets his season pass "refunded" (i.e. they pull his pass for the year but give him his money back) and also threaten him with trespassing charges if he ever decides to buy a day ticket to Sugarloaf or Sunday River. For what you might ask - because he wrote an internet chat comment about a press release that they did not find acceptable to Boyne management.

http://www.sugarloaftoday.com/chat/viewtopic.php?t=2415

http://forums.alpinezone.com/48697-sugarloafers-pass-pulled-no-legit-reason.html

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150315
 
ok the guy lost his season's pass life sucks...

the real tragedy is the poor girl who lost her life and the hell her family is going through
 
jasoncapecod":33f1cqu4 said:
ok the guy lost his season's pass life sucks...

the real tragedy is the poor girl who lost her life and the hell her family is going through

Agree that the tragery is the lost of life, but Boyne's response (conditions weren't at fault) are terribly insensitive. As I see it, the person that got banned was critical of the response. Boyne/SL management didn't like his response and banned him.

However this story has legs, if you check out the TGR thread, you'll see.
 
Patrick":3qi84tyi said:
Agree that the tragery is the lost of life, but Boyne's response (conditions weren't at fault) are terribly insensitive. As I see it, the person that got banned was critical of the response. Boyne/SL management didn't like his response and banned him.

However this story has legs, if you check out the TGR thread, you'll see.

I think Patrick is right on this. Having read the "insensitive" remark I was shocked the poor guy had his pass revoked. He didn't comment at all on the girl. I think Sugarloaf dropped the ball here.
 
I also agree with Patrick...

The girls story hits pretty close to home. I just spent the weekend skiing with high school racers and their parents.
 
If you read to the bottom of those threads, it appears Boyne upper management has now realized the sh!tstorm they set off, and is trying to figure out how to back off gracefully.

Needless to say, as an occasionally acid-tongued poster to online forums :D , I'm in full agreement with Patrick too.
 
Patrick":2trjx92b said:
........Where are our old posters from the Loaf?
Don't know who ya' callin' "Old", but I'm a Loafer.. \:D/ ..;-);-)
...Saw the headline of the young girl on Spillway....sad. Much too sad to spend any time talking about the wanna-be Abbie Hoffmann and his personal war versus Boyne. Didn't read much into his little vendetta...so don't know facts, nor do I care to....after what preceeded.
After an on_mountain tragedy...reading all the crap that a testosterone-laden 20-30_something from the sticks has to say about life VS Boyne...doesn't keep me interested.... I grew up through the 60s and 70s, Vietnam..etc. His issue is his alone.
$.01
 
BigSpencer":19857cbj said:
Patrick":19857cbj said:
........Where are our old posters from the Loaf?
Don't know who ya' callin' "Old", but I'm a Loafer.. \:D/ ..;-);-)
...Saw the headline of the young girl on Spillway....sad. Much too sad to spend any time talking about the wanna-be Abbie Hoffmann and his personal war versus Boyne. Didn't read much into his little vendetta...so don't know facts, nor do I.

To make a long story short, the guy gets to keep his pass. Revoking the pass for what someone said on the internet and saying they might do the same for other people posting on that website was wrong.
 
Patrick":22l5vz3o said:
To make a long story short, the guy gets to keep his pass. Revoking the pass for what someone said on the internet and saying they might do the same for other people posting on that website was wrong.

Bingo, sagacious patrick nails it again.
 
The "They" sure sounds like lower-level personnel spouting off. Obviously were the ones coming up with the parochial shout-out style of confrontation with a fellow parochial hot-head.
 
Most of this stuff is posted or what posted on TGR and on the Sugarloaf forum I believe. There were also some local insight on the Sugarloaf situation prior to Boyne arriving (i.e. bad blood).

Okay, so here the summary from the way I understand it:

1) Kids dies at hospital.

2) Article in local paper:

Vermont skier seriously injured at Sugarloaf
http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/n ... 45104.html

One line response from the ski area that

The accident happened on the Spillway trail. Spokesman Ethan Austin said the girl was on a ski team from Stratton Mountain in Vermont that was at Sugarloaf for Speed Week, a training week for alpine ski events.

She was not on the race course when the accident occurred, he said.

"The accident was not related to the conditions," Austin said. "She lost control of her skis."

Turns out this was an answer to a question asked by the reporter. One quote from a 15 minutes interview.

3) Response from the guy that took exception to that response.

Nice work-in at the bottom of the article by marketing to assure potential Cu$tomers that the death was not related to conditions....

He was called out on it and apologized for it.

Not sure if point 4 or 5 is next...

4) first from the guy that lost his pass.

Folks - Here is the situation as of 14:36 Friday 06 Feb 2009.

I (the person behind the character Exiled/Vonzipe) was informed by management via phone call the morning of 24 January that my presence was no longer welcomed/accepted @ Sugarloaf or Sunday River. With specificity (as referenced by management during the call) the offending comment that 'crossed the line' and put me over the top was the post referenced above. In hindsight I could have chosen to arrange my words in a different (more obvious) fashion to convey my point. As there was no malicious intent or offense implied or suggested to the aggrieved I am not apologizing for my opinion that the last quote in the article printed in the Morning Sentinel was in itself - IN MY OPINION - a tasteless addendum to a tragic event. As a member did state I perhaps should have chosen a different venue for my cynicism. I will take responsibility for my lack of judgment.
Many of you have come to know my style as brash/toxic/crude and off-putting. I am a product of a comedic environment that always sought to take it to the edge.
To get back on track - as a result of the litany of critical posts levied against various tenets of the operation repeatedly over the years - for which I was a paying season pass customer - officials determined that they would be better served by removing me from the hallowed grounds permanently. I have been informed that upon return of my season pass to Sugarloaf Mtn Corp I will be issued a full refund. (I have used my pass three times this year for those looking at the tally). I was also informed not to approach resort property or risk being charged with trespassing - the direct implication here was not to attempt to show on a weekend and purchase a day ticket.

Many of the participants and readers of this forum are front-line employees of the mountain and I will front and center apologize to each of them in person (off resort property) should any of my nonesense have offended them in their daily efforts. Sugarloaf is Sugarloaf because of them, and I cheer and applaud their smiles.

Sugarloaf is beyond a special place, it is, a way of life. It is apparent through the reaction of my bloviating that I chose to not be a decent
steward of that creed. For that I am ashamed.

I am not looking for a war to ensue between you all and management/Boyne as a result of my 'screw-up' (Obama-ism {had to get one last political jab in you know}). However, please, learn from my mistake - treat your special place well and remember - WORDS CAN HURT YOU

This started the ball rolling. Pulling a pass for something (insensitive) said on the internet, calling the person at home to tell him. This didn't sit well with Sugarloafer.

5) Response on the internet from management (did really really made it worst in my books). I believe this part was edited out...you'll understand why.

Here in one post on the Sugarloaf forum:

Hopefully, this forum can be one of less irrational conspiracy theory and more objective feedback and dialogue. If it does not it will become shut out, as a source of information and those who participate will be not welcome to enjoy that great mountain. . .Giving someone back their hard-earned money and saying "think about your actions" and with proper healing we will welcome you back in the future is not out of line in my opinion. . .This move was not about curtailing free speech or moral policing this forum. It is about making it a point that those who engage in certain actions or hurtful ridicule will not be welcome on property - as determined by local management.

The conflict spread around the ski forums. The most hostile was the reacted on TGR.

6) Management noticed that they now add an issue on their hand that not only affected the local and Sugarloaf or Maine, but all of the Boyne resorts.

Management (same person as above) responded a few times to calm the lynch mob. So the "THEY" that was responding to maybe a lower management situation opened the floodgates.

All,

Unlike the rest of the posts, I am happy to give you my name and position and take responsibility for my comments.

I am "the skircher" and Stephen Kircher responsible for 6 of our Boyne Resort mountains including the recently blogged Sugarloaf. It makes sense to me and it is understandable from what was posted above why folks would be upset and believe this is a draconian action by some corporate "Nazi". However, this action was taken by the local team using the facts and circumstances of this specific individual and circumstance. Not specifically his post on a forum.

First the painful situation that started this was the loss of a young life at one of our resorts, a tragedy that I hope non of you have to face personally, as many of us in the business have to do. There is nothing more gut wrenching than looking a father or mother in the eyes and explaining to them what happened to their child.

The person that had this responsibility and direct contact with this family in this case and the one emotionally dealing with this girl’s death for the past several weeks was our Director of Marketing for Sugarloaf and Sunday River - Jim Costello. The post coupled with many interrelated histories and the results of a discussion after making contact with this young man prompted the temporary suspension to the resorts by Mr. Costello.

This action was not about "covering our tracks" or censorship it was about garnering respectful commentary on the sugarloaftoday/chat site (not run by us) regarding a death and respect toward the team that gives their careers to making Sugarloaf a great place to ski. As you might understand, there is a bit of history with that site that predates Boyne's involvement with Sugarloaf that also contributed to this decision by the local team.

I learned about the season pass refund just hours prior to posting my comments saying - we (Boyne Resorts) will look into this matter further. There have been several conversations with the young man since and the ice has melted considerable, my sense is that this young man will be enjoying Sugarloaf again before next year. Jim and he are scheduled to meet soon to discuss the various issues on site.

My comments about the sugarloaftoday/chat room regarding the request for the participants to give constructive feedback vs. hysterical staff bashing was meant to communicate that if they wish for the forum to continue to be an effective voice and a good source of feedback for the team it needs to act respectfully. Calling the man who dealt with this death - eyeball to eye all with the parents a "Coward" is not acceptable in my humble opinion to be on a chartroom site.

We (Boyne Resorts) enjoy constructive feedback and have been including this feedback to make adjustments in our operations for over 60 yrs. However, hysterical commentary, rumor mongering, misinformation, conspiracy theories and staff bashing by folks that don't have the decency to use their own name is not the feedback we use to run our business. It is counter productive and believe if someone is enjoying our facilities, they should have the common courtesy to give feedback respectfully and so it can be used to improve the place vs. creating a divisive atmosphere.

I personally, think this new medium offers huge benefits to customer dialogue and if you desire to take the time to see my numerous posts under the same name - you will understand that I respect these forums and those who participate in them. No matter what baggage they have seemed to carry with them into the conversations.

Thank you for at least reading this and hopefully in deference to that young girl we can all move on to enjoying this great outdoor recreational activity.

Respectfully,

SK - Stephen Kircher - President, Boyne Eastern Operations -MT, MI, TN, NH and ME

This post didn't calm down the maggot lynch mob. Here is another try.

Clearly, I cannot respond to all the above posts and I understand clearly my answers have not been well received or in some cases misinterpreted.

I certainly empathize with everyone who is concerned with any curtailment of free dialogue on these forums. Again, if you will look at the numerous activity I and others from Boyne have had on other forums you will see I fully respect this new medium and those who participate in it actively. I do personally think that for this to be even more effective civility should be carried in the tone of the conversations.

Let me state clearly, posting negative comments about us will not be cause for this type of action under our long-standing season pass policy.

Those comments were not the sole cause in this case, as I understand it.

The individual wanted to keep this between him and Mr. Costello and therefore I cannot comment on the other reasons this action was taken.

However, seeing the misunderstanding of the events and the perception that censorship occurred solely on the comment made, it is clear that most of you do not understand the background events of the people involved. Much of which I do not even know myself.......

Your reactions make sense to me and even though the harsh words hurt.

I personally questioned several days ago why this seemed to be the appropriate response and asked for the meeting of the folks involved out in Maine to put this behind them - hopefully with full reinstatement of privileges for this young man.

In addition, I agree with all of you that taking away privileges for comments alone is not the correct next step. Engaging in mutual understanding and hopefully constructive dialogue should be in my opinion and will be reiterated to the senior mgt team.

We want and encourage constructive feedback and understand that this forum and others is meant to be free flowing. We hope for that feedback to be constructive and respectful.

The feedback here is appreciated albeit painful to read, as it is clear our team over reacted in an emotional state.

Unfortunately, my answers only seemed to fuel some of your concerns about censorship. I apologize for our team's actions, that perception and for doing a poor job of communicating - I maybe should have waited a few more hours before posting and gotten a cup of coffee.

Again respectfully submitted,

SK


7) The final results is the guy got his pass back. Sugarloafer seem happy it's behind them, but the maggots are still pissed.

There are a few more posts that might be relevant, but the above is the core of the situation.

The lesson is think before you say something. All this because of a one line quote in the paper that gave the impression that that Management was insensitive.

I have entered the full quote because I've noticed that a few posts where deleted or edited.
 
Back
Top