State Government Meddling In Ski Areas

jamesdeluxe

Administrator
We've touched on this topic here lightly in the past, I believe, but there's a long thread about it on the Snowjournal board, which started out as yet another discussion about Belleayre's much talked-about expansion, and has veered into the issue of government interference in all sorts of things.

Harvey poked his nose in, and now I'm in a protracted argument with SJ's resident reactionary... who works for some southern NE mountain, I believe, and knows a lot about ski area management.

http://snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=topic13281&start=1
 
James...I couldn't figure out how to add anything to that whole thing. I'm not totally clear on the personalities over there but there are some pretty strongly held beliefs that don't look like they are going to change. I could get into a whole lot of trouble with whole socialism thing.

It is kinda wierd that the gov't is involve in ski areas. Don't get me wrong...it really works for me at Gore - love it. But why is it in NY and not so much in other states?

Wish I could figure out how to get an email notification on new posts for SJ.
 
Yeah, the socialist stuff is laughable. To me, that indicates someone who has never spent any time outside the U.S. As mentioned, he sounded exactly like someone from Michael Moore's new movie. I hear that crap and immediately think of Joe The Plumber, which is odd, because he's a great reality check on anything to do with running a mountain (a subject I know only from talking to people who actually do it).

SJ has been using the same interface since 2001, I believe, which is fitting given its "lost ski area" specialization. It's an ongoing joke there about SJ Version 2.0 (coming soon!). :)

I'm conflicted about the state-run vs. private enterprise thing too. I understand the arguments for and against, and that people on one side of the fence can screw things up just as easily as the other. I know very little about Gore, and would appreciate any input. In particular, the ORDA component makes my head spin:

The New York State Olympic Regional Development Authority (ORDA) was created by the State of New York to manage the facilities used during the 1980 Olympic Winter Games at Lake Placid. ORDA operates Whiteface Mountain and Gore Mountain ski areas; the Olympic Sports Complex (...) In the past 10 years, the state has provided ORDA over $70 million for venue upgrades. The organization used these funds in 1999 to install heated, high-speed, state-of-the-art gondolas at both Gore and Whiteface mountains as well as improvements elsewhere (...).

Why is Gore part of that? Because it's in the same general region as Lake Placid? Did Gore host an event that I wasn't aware of? I'm sure this has been discussed into the ground elsewhere, but I still don't understand.
 
jamesdeluxe":6ptthmvg said:
Yeah, the socialist stuff is laughable.

Hey I'm no socialist. I'd much rather save for my own retirement than pay the gov't to do it.

A large percentage of Americans say they don't want the US to be socialist. But, I'd bet a donut that any politician who ran for office saying he was going to eliminate Social Security and Medicare would get nowhere.

jamesdeluxe":6ptthmvg said:
SJ has been using the same interface since 2001, I believe, which is fitting given its "lost ski area" specialization. It's an ongoing joke there about SJ Version 2.0 (coming soon!). :)

Translation...there is no way to be notified of new posting on SJ. (?)

jamesdeluxe":6ptthmvg said:
I'm conflicted about the state-run vs. private enterprise thing too.

Hey I love Gore Mountain, but they basically ran my namesake - Harvey Mountain - out of business.

I've got no idea why Gore is part of ORDA. I am sure that there has never been an Olympic event at Gore.

Also I question the claim that the gondi is heated. :-D
 
One of the last things I need is a heated gondola... the only thing I hate worse is a heated tram. I still have nightmares of being packed into one of those things at Snowbird, Jackson Hole, and Lech with a hundred other people -- many of whom hadn't practiced much in the way of hygiene. Given the choice, I'd take the uptown 4 train at rush hour, which is a pretty daring thing to say.

Social Security is certainly a socialist program and a pretty tough thing to defend given the ongoing allegations that our generation will never see a penny of what we've put in.

I try to put myself in the shoes of Hunter, Plattekill, and Windham, which have to compete against a ski area that doesn't need to balance its revenues and expenses. But it seems disingenuous that they never said a word about Belleayre all the years it was on the chopping block during the 80s and early 90s... in fact, they joined the campaign to support it. What really annoys me is that all of those ski areas have very distinct niches, and as mentioned in the SJ thread, I really don't believe Belleayre is stealing Hunter and WIndham's clientele by offering tickets a few shekels cheaper. The only person who has a legitimate gripe IMHO is Laszlo at Plattekill. People have to drive 20 minutes past Belleayre to go there, and he doesn't have the snowmaking to compete most of the season.

Also, Belleayre was there a couple decades before the others... kind of like the cliche about moving next to a swamp and complaining about mosquitoes. OTOH, Gore was developed AFTER places like Harvey Mt, right?

Oh well, I'm going to the NYS Ski Area Media Reception on Weds, so I'll report back about anything I hear.
 
jamesdeluxe":17rt3335 said:
One of the last things I need is a heated gondola... the only thing I hate worse is a heated tram. I still have nightmares of being packed into one of those things at Snowbird, Jackson Hole, and Lech with a hundred other people...
Are there heated trams? I've never been in any (which of course doesn't mean they don't exist) - it always seemed that packed in with 125 of your closest friends was ample heat generation. One key difference between the Snowbird and JH trams compared to Lech is that at least in the former two, everyone hasn't had cheese for breakfast.
 
Marc_C":3lxi9zip said:
packed in with 125 of your closest friends was ample heat generation. One key difference between the Snowbird and JH trams compared to Lech is that at least in the former two, everyone hasn't had cheese for breakfast.
Probably right, I mistook that for an actual heated cabin. At Lech, the problem is that more than 50% of the skiers had just smoked cigarettes and drank coffee... lovely. Thank god, they don't allow smoking in the trams anymore.
 
I can't imagine why you'd heat a lift. What a waste.

If you are dressed properly for the outdoors, then you are overdressed for a heated, enclosed lift.

If snow melts on you, you're more likely to be wet, and then cold when you are back out on the hill.

I'm the nutcase opening the gondi windows in a blizzard.
 
jamesdeluxe":3i4eizsh said:
At Lech, the problem is that more than 50% of the skiers had just smoked cigarettes and drank coffee... lovely. Thank god, they don't allow smoking in the trams anymore.

Hey, that's about like ridding a double chair with Admin. :stir:

Oh yes, all this talk about socialism in the States make me laugh. :rotfl:
 
Back
Top