Lenders foreclose on Intrawest - Globe and Mail news
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EMSC
Well-known member
soulskier":2b5w4z9c said:
Vail Resorts Inc doesn't exactly have a spectacular balance sheet, but seems OK. They have a $390M, 6.75% note due in 2014. So they could load up on debt in the short term, but only if they had a plan to push the new note plus the old one out into the future as far as maturity. Otherwise they'd end up just like Intrawest. Maybe some sort of long term convertible bonds? Not sure there is much of a market for that right now on wall street.
Of course I could see VR going ahead with the transaction and then selling off large chunks of the overall entity over the next 2-3 years. Perhaps even unloading Keystone in the process (least interesting and 'glamorous' of what they own in colo right now). That might allow them to keep maybe Steamboat which is a better brand IMO (WP would have to be 'sold' due to anti-trust issues I think no matter what). Even though the VR HQ is only a couple miles away from where I live I don't really know any of the big players working there - I should work on reconciling that!
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
As we've discussed, while Utah has Colorado beat on most objective measurements (ski towns seem to be the one area where CO clearly does better), it's so well positioned in tourists' minds as "Ski Country," I'm wondering if it's possible for Colorado to have a really bad winter business-wise.
if they come out of this season (which has been very dry for VR's major cash cows) in decent shape, should the lack of geographic diversification be a concern?
if they come out of this season (which has been very dry for VR's major cash cows) in decent shape, should the lack of geographic diversification be a concern?
EMSC
Well-known member
jamesdeluxe":31df32c8 said:
Much less volatility in Colo market than most others. A bad year here is down 5-7% or so. Whereas in PNW, or East coast or etc.. they can have 20+% drops year over year if the snow stinks. I figure that's one reason why Vail has stuck mostly to Colo market (Heavenly was practically a gift at the price Vail paid for it). However, like any large corp, they need to show growth over time and the DOJ has pretty much said that Vail Inc is at it's max # of resorts in Colo. So, over a long period of time they need to add in other regions, though I doubt they want the volatility that many other regions show. Given Utah's good snow history as well I think that is why Vail fought so hard to buy The Canyons. I know Vail has 'kicked the tires' in other regions with a resort up for sale, but never too seriously.
So far this season Front Range Colorado snow does "stink," relatively. Not on the scale of 1977 and 1981 but maybe the worst since then through last week. So it will be interesting to see the skier visit numbers at the end of the year.
I heard yesterday that Panorama was bought by some B.C. local real estate associtaion there.
I agree on the geographic diversification. Resorts of the Canadian Rockies had the usual overextension problems when it got into trouble, but it was also concentrated geographically.
EMSC
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":1dkh1ayn said:
Without Vail Inc resorts, who dropped out of CSCUSA, '1st period' visits were up 1% believe it or not. Vail Inc should be reporting on their visit #'s through Jan sometime in Feb (their Q2 results). The snow hype machine is working overtime any time snow does fall (I get the marketing auto-emails from Vail, Intrawest, etc...), plus despite the relative lack of snow, most places are reporting ~95%+ open even if it's thin and rocky (Abasin being a notable exception to open terrain).
So I personally don't expect too much of an additional drop off from last years economy based drop... Only if a large enough % of skiers really pay attention to where the snow has fallen... And for many, they just punch the button to the same region every year. Also with the big metro, the major Colo resorts can entice the locals with steep discounts in late season should it come to that (not as good for the bottom line, but fills the mtn up).
Surely the Denver locals are cutting back some with the subpar conditions?
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Exactly. Most tourists don't engage in the "____ vs. ____" trip planning discussions that go on here... they find a place and that's that. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had on lifts in the Catskills where people rave about how great Breckenridge or Vail is, and how they go there for a week every year... accompanied by much eye-rolling from yours truly. Most tourists enjoy the comfort of an established routine -- and I'm not judging it... just saying that it isn't for me. As much as I love the Arlberg in Austria, and you've heard me go on about it ad nauseum, the next time I go back to the Alps (whenever the exchange rate climbs out of the abyss), it'll be to a different region... just because I like to check out new (to me) places.EMSC":1yon2vj5 said:
As I mentioned above, whether it's because of marketing skill or, more likely, because they threw more money at marketing efforts decades earlier than other regions, Colorado is what flatlanders east of the Rockies think of when their minds turn to winter destinations. Of course, on an absolute basis, places like Vail and Breckenridge do offer what the majority of people want from a ski trip, so it's not surprising that they head there again and again.
In my upcoming article on northern New Mexico (still sitting in Admin's inbox :x), I mention a coffee-table book written about Ernie Blake and Taos Ski Valley, and how there's an interesting sub-plot about how Blake worked with and sometimes against Colorado for the hearts and minds of target audiences (East Coast, Midwest, Texas, etc.). Fascinating to learn about the ways that ski areas have marketed themselves over the decades, and their varying levels of success.
EMSC
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":2j4q0c9e said:
Hard for me to tell since I'm mostly sitting home with a baby, But I do know that despite modest snow at best last weekend (perhaps Vail excluded), that huge crowds of folks went up to the resorts and I70 was packed worse than ever according to some (as in dead stop on the way UP as well as back, which is much rarer than just having to deal with the dreaded stop and go coming back to town).
jamesdeluxe":2j4q0c9e said:
Understood. A lot of that particular variety of thought on these boards. If anyone is keeping tabs on my preferences, over the course of a winter I like a mix of hitting familiar terrain where I know every great spot on the hill, as well as mixing in new places.
Patrick
Active member
Hear is a new news item:
Intrawest makes deal with creditors
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... le1485410/
Intrawest makes deal with creditors
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... le1485410/