Socal's Injury Leads to the Great Health Care Debate

longshanks

longshanks

New member
rfarren":1dnxqv5g said:
I agree about the ski area, but not about the person. I believe, that a skier is fair game. It's always the uphill skiers responsibilty to avoid collisions. If you're an idiot who skis out of control and you injure another person because of it, you should be held responsible. You're held responsible if you get in trouble in the bc, why should that be different when you take someone else out.

The ACL takes about 6 months before you are back to normal, but I don't know about the MCL. Although, I don't think the MCL is as bad a recovery period. As long as you have health insurance you should be fine, otherwise, you're looking at a hefty sum. Last year I needed two Cat scans, and both cost about $1000 each, although I have insurance so I didn't have to pay for it. An MRI I believe cost around $1000 too. Luckily, MCL repair surgery is an out patient procedure, so it shouldn't run more than $20,000. Just to give a comparison. Last year I had a Laproscopic Appendectomy. The procedure itself costed around $19,000 I think the insurance company paid around 10,000 as that's how they roll. My hospitalization was insanely expensive but by that time I had reached my deductible so I wasn't on the hook. It was crazy as they charge my insurance company around $120,000 for 9 days of hospital stay. The insurance company I believe paid around $25,000.
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Hey Socal, that really sucks about your accident...I agree totally with Rob about going after the guy who caused the calamity, but not the resort. If I were you, I'd sue the nuts off the guy. I trust that you know his identity?...and can, with the help of witnesses, prove negligence. With or without insurance, those potential medical costs are staggering from a Canadian perspective. With our health care system, you'd be looking a $0.00 for surgery and hospital stay. Likely the same for re-hab and physiotherapy...I can't understand why America is resisting adopting a similar system. I suppose one reason is that the have's are not willing to pay for the have not's...or that the cost to implement such a plan could put further stress on the fragile economy. I guess you can't effectively run a couple of Wars and provide the people at home with health care at the same time. A sad state of affairs that...
 
longshanks":3kedwidf said:
With our health care system, you'd be looking a $0.00 for surgery and hospital stay.
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But you'd be waiting until 2014 to have the procedure. :wink:
 
LOL, Admin. So true. I don't think we want to start a thread about US vs. Canada healthcare systems. The "east vs. west" ski threads are bad enough
 
I don't think we want to start a thread about US vs. Canada healthcare systems.
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I don't have time to be splitting threads for awhile. :lol:

I agree with the consensus to give the resort nothing more than a thank you for the patrol, but to try for some compensation from the skier or his insurance. You were standing still, sounds like a clear cut case that shouldbn't take a lot of time.
 
Admin":26ngp5ns said:
longshanks":26ngp5ns said:
With our health care system, you'd be looking a $0.00 for surgery and hospital stay.
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But you'd be waiting until 2014 to have the procedure. :wink:
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Sorry Admin, but I must call :bs: on that one...Repair of an injury such as an ACL or MCL is not considered elective surgery. So the wait, if any would be minimal. Just face it...we have a medical system that is the envy of all who are without one. Thank the Lord for Tommy Douglas! Who, buy the way is the father of Shirley Douglas and grand father of Keifer Sutherland - not that this has anything to do with this discussion, but I just thought I'd throw it out there... :-s
 
longshanks":zxy4hfke said:
Admin":zxy4hfke said:
longshanks":zxy4hfke said:
With our health care system, you'd be looking a $0.00 for surgery and hospital stay.
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But you'd be waiting until 2014 to have the procedure. :wink:
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Sorry Admin, but I must call :bs: on that one...Repair of an injury such as an ACL or MCL is not considered elective surgery. So the wait, if any would be minimal.
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Being that I'm really just doing a lot of sitting around these days I was curious about this statement so I took a look. I'd say that an ACL injury generally isn't an emergency so:

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/waitlist/#
In British Columbia, more than 400,000 hospital-based surgeries and treatments are performed each year. If you need surgery or treatment that is not an emergency, you will be placed on a wait list. An individual who needs emergency surgery does not go on a waitlist; they receive treatment without delay.
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I dunno, personally, I'd rather pay a portion of the cost, choose my own doctor, and get it done right away than pay (ie taxes), get stuck with any doctor who is available (just a guess on this one), and wait for months. The below link says that "knee replacement surgery" which sounds ACL surgery has a average wait time in 2008/09 of 13 weks

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/cpa/mediasite/waitlist/median.html

I had to wait for some swelling to go down but I'm having my MRI on Monday, doctor will review 3hrs later and I'm free to start physical therapy as soon as he says so. Granted this isn't free by any means but it's my knee, only get one on each leg. Here's what I found on getting an MRI in Canada:

As in past years, patients also experienced significant waiting times for various diagnostic technologies across Canada: computed tomography (CT), magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) and ultrasound scans.

The median wait for a CT scan across Canada was 4.8 weeks. British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia had the shortest wait for CT scans (4.0 weeks), while the longest wait occurred in Manitoba (8.0 weeks).

The median wait for an MRI across Canada was 10.1 weeks. Patients in Ontario experienced the shortest wait for an MRI (7.8 weeks), while Newfoundland and Labrador residents waited longest (20.0 weeks).

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/10/ ... z0dwc2JyGY
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Thanks for doing my legwork (pun fully intended!) for me, socal!

longshanks":fd3h9l6h said:
Just face it...we have a medical system that is the envy of all who are without one.
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Uhhhh...sorry, not from me. Not at all.
 
longshanks":n68vfz63 said:
Just face it...we have a medical system that is the envy of all who are without one.
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This is actually true right? If my country had NO medical system or if I was uninsured, absolutely it's better. But I'll take our system any day, given MY current situation.
 
socal":1xlueoar said:
longshanks":1xlueoar said:
Just face it...we have a medical system that is the envy of all who are without one.
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This is actually true right? If my country had NO medical system or if I was uninsured, absolutely it's better. But I'll take our system any day, given MY current situation.
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There are certain nice parts, and certain bad parts with our system. I should know. I had fabulous care last year when I was really ill. On the other hand, I now have a pre-existing condition. It's a total travesty as far as insurance is concerned, at least for future purchasing options for myself. I work for myself so I don't have the option to pick up an employers plan. The way the system works now, I would either have to take a job with a company or build a company to a size where a group plan is actually feasible. Frankly, the system works against entrepreneurs, which if you ask me is a bit un-american.
 
While the health care debate could go on forever, I will make a few observations:
The US system works well most of the time, but the flaws are quite glaring:
1) As rfarren notes, from a free market perspective do we really want people choosing less than optimal jobs based upon whether they can get health insurance?
2) The uninsured being cared for via emergency rooms is wasteful of resources as well as producing health outcomes below the standards of most first world countries.
3) Is it reasonable that a family with insurance should go bankrupt as a result of a catastrophic injury or illness? (Reputedly half of personal bankruptcies are primarily due to medical issues) I'm all for high deductibles to force the consumer make cost/benefit judgments, but if the insurance industry won't take care of the catastrophic tail end of the curve, the government should step in.
4) There are alternatives between the US system and a Canadian style government monopoly. Switzerland has private insurance companines that are like regulated utilities. France and Germany allow provate insurance alongside the public system. This model provides competition to the public system. Our university system is a good analogy. Only 5% of college students are in private universities, but the top state schools strive to compete with the best private ones.
5) The point above leads to the question of the contentious "public option" in the congressional debate. Opposition to a federal public option is based on fear of an exploding deficit, of which Medicare is already a large part. It is the height of hypocrisy for the Republicans to be complaining about "Medicare cuts." I would favor a "public option" at the state level. The states are not allowed to run deficits and would have to design their plans in a fiscally responsible way.
 
My opinions as a doctor:

1) As far as Socal's MCL injury, partial tears of the MCL are usually nonoperative injuries and should heal with conservative management within a few weeks to months. Of course your mileage may vary, but it's a very different animal from the ACL. All the best for a rapid recovery, and hopefully you can keep your use of the medical system to a minimum since tincture of time will be the most effective cure.

2) As far as the fusterclucks that are our current health care delivery system and the proposals to overhaul it- there really isn't any coherent solution. You're damned if you do (Marxism! Pinko commies! Taxes! Freeloaders!) and damned if you don't (preexisting conditions, impossible to obtain insurance as mentioned). I have colleagues who feel very strongly on both sides of the issue- I cannot help but to be essentially ambivalent, knowing that on each side of the coin are significant pros and cons. I do agree that we as a nation should not allow hard-working folks to go bankrupt over medical bills because insurance companies reneged on their coverage promises after questionable "preexisting conditions," related to the current complaint or not, came to light.

I agree with Crocker's points.

I also feel that the kerfuffle about the "death panels" over the summer was as sickening a thing as I have ever seen in political "debate." That was absolutely shameful.

Get well soon, Socal.
 
Aukai":gsms8nq3 said:
2) As far as the fusterclucks that are our current health care delivery system and the proposals to overhaul it- there really isn't any coherent solution. You're damned if you do (Marxism! Pinko commies! Taxes! Freeloaders!) and damned if you don't (preexisting conditions, impossible to obtain insurance as mentioned). I have colleagues who feel very strongly on both sides of the issue- I cannot help but to be essentially ambivalent, knowing that on each side of the coin are significant pros and cons. I do agree that we as a nation should not allow hard-working folks to go bankrupt over medical bills because insurance companies reneged on their coverage promises after questionable "preexisting conditions," related to the current complaint or not, came to light.

I agree with Crocker's points.

I also feel that the kerfuffle about the "death panels" over the summer was as sickening a thing as I have ever seen in political "debate." That was absolutely shameful.
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The whole death panel thing was the expected rhetoric from the insurance companies doing their best to kill any health care bill. It was pretty effective though completely counterproductive. Any rational discussion about health care has to start with accepting that health care is rationed and the debate is over how to allocate it.

The system as-is is totally broken. We spend $7,500 per person on average and over 16% of GDP on health care. The feeding at the trough makes the sub-prime greed pale in insignificance. I figure there is so much vested interest in the status quo that the country will go bankrupt before there's enough social unrest to completely revamp the system.
 
Aw, heck. Against my better judgment, I'll dive in headfirst too.

Last month's National Geographic magazine has a wonderful graphic which shows, for various countries, typical spending per person (all in USD) vs average life expectancy at birth. The graph is just a line from cost to life expectancy, both on the vertical axis, with no horizontal axis definition.

The U.K. is average, at $2986 and 79.2 years.
Canada: 3895:80.6
Japan, 2581:84
Mexico, 823:75

The US?
7,290:78

We get three more years than they do in Mexico, and we spend nearly 9 times as much!

This doesn't account for variations in doctor's salaries, either. I think Japan's are probably underpaid, because the graph also indicates that the average patient sees a doctor 12 times a year, vs 0-4 times in the US and Mexico. Canada and UK are 4-8.

In this particular graph, the US and Mexico are the only two without universal health coverage.

Get better soon, SoCal. Sorry to hear you were injured.
Tom
 
Not really on topic, anymore. But...

I get profanity a lot from people who come up from behind me. From the "comments" I get it, I think they feel that my wide, less regular turns, make potential collisions my fault.

Are there exceptions to the rule that the downhill skier has right of way? It's a sincere question.

With regard to this thread - if you have no health insurance, you're probably in favor of universal healthcare.

One reason it's hard to sell universal care is that most people don't see a problem. Their care is paid by their company, and they don't see the cost. When 80% are content with the system, it's hard to change.

Get well Socal.
 
Harvey44":32l93uq9 said:
I get profanity a lot from people who come up from behind me.
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Well, you are in NY after all! :lol:

Harvey44":32l93uq9 said:
From the "comments" I get it, I think they feel that my wide, less regular turns, make potential collisions my fault.
Are there exceptions to the rule that the downhill skier has right of way? It's a sincere question.
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Basically, no.
 
Harvey44":xr6pf8kn said:
I get profanity a lot from people who come up from behind me. they feel that my wide, less regular turns, make potential collisions my fault.
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It wasn't the wide, less regular turns that made me yell at you, but the fact that you thoughtlessly skied into an innocent hemlock (my favorite tree), which was just standing there minding its own business. :x
 
Harvey44":2b2yun04 said:
I get profanity a lot from people who come up from behind me. From the "comments" I get it, I think they feel that my wide, less regular turns, make potential collisions my fault.

Are there exceptions to the rule that the downhill skier has right of way? It's a sincere question.
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As Admin said, basically no. But that doesn't mean that erratic, unpredictable turns aren't as annoying as hell, can result in a collision, and often indicates that the skier is on terrain well above their ability level.
 
When 80% are content with the system, it's hard to change.
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As one who as always had employer-based health insurance I wonder about this:
1) The tedious paperwork.
2) The turnaround time (at least a month, often more) to find out whether a claim is going to paid, and if so how much.
3) Calling to inquire (at least at United Healthcare) is a nightmare. You are never allowed to establish contact with a representative to follow up. Later inquiries are with a new person at random. Health insurance bureaucracies make the DMV and the Postal Service look like models of efficiency IMHO.

Switzerland requires that health insurance companies turn claims around within a week. I'll vote for that.

I work for a life insurance company. To my knowledge we rarely treat customers like that. Also, in the life industry a claim is inconstestible (even if it's suicide!) once a policy has been inforce 2 years.
 
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