Is the ski resort model dead?

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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby rfarren » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:35 am

jamesdeluxe wrote:Here's Soul Skier's big chance to create an MRA-style ski area with its own weather station (run as a for-profit venture by JSpin).
8-[

300 inches of annual snow, close to a small university town and within daytrip distance from a large city (Montreal). Not the hardcore terrain paradise that he's always talking about, but could be a good test run to work out the bugs in his model.

And it has green energy already...

Anybody have an idea of the cost for this? Their development in Burlington is about 20 mil, so my guess is the sale of this resort is going to help bankroll that project.
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby Marc_C » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:27 am

The last time Bolton was sold, I think it was in the neighborhood of $6M, but I may be remembering that wildly incorrectly.
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby Tony Crocker » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:21 pm

jamesdeluxe wrote:Here's Soul Skier's big chance to create an MRA-style ski area with its own weather station (run as a for-profit venture by JSpin). 8-[

300 inches of annual snow, close to a small university town and within daytrip distance from a large city (Montreal). Not the hardcore terrain paradise that he's always talking about, but could be a good test run to work out the bugs in his model.

All true, but remember soulskier turns his nose up at eastern skiing. :stir:
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby soulskier » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:52 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:
jamesdeluxe wrote:Here's Soul Skier's big chance to create an MRA-style ski area with its own weather station (run as a for-profit venture by JSpin). 8-[

300 inches of annual snow, close to a small university town and within daytrip distance from a large city (Montreal). Not the hardcore terrain paradise that he's always talking about, but could be a good test run to work out the bugs in his model.

All true, but remember soulskier turns his nose up at eastern skiing. :stir:


You know, we have begun conceptualizing about creating a MRA freestyle/jib ski-energy center in an urban setting with a large population base.

Take a city with a lot of snow and a bunch of kids with nothing else to do, combine it with our hippy ideological theories, and make the planet a better place!
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby rfarren » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:19 pm

soulskier wrote:You know, we have begun conceptualizing about creating a MRA freestyle/jib ski-energy center in an urban setting with a large population base.

Take a city with a lot of snow and a bunch of kids with nothing else to do, combine it with our hippy ideological theories, and make the planet a better place!


SLC...??? What other city in North America fits that idea?
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby Patrick » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:30 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:
jamesdeluxe wrote:Here's Soul Skier's big chance to create an MRA-style ski area with its own weather station (run as a for-profit venture by JSpin). 8-[

300 inches of annual snow, close to a small university town and within daytrip distance from a large city (Montreal). Not the hardcore terrain paradise that he's always talking about, but could be a good test run to work out the bugs in his model.

All true, but remember soulskier turns his nose up at eastern skiing. :stir:


First off, Bolton is no MRG terrain, atmosphere, vert and challenge wise. I wouldn't have bought a share if the skier Coop would have started at Bolton, but I did at MRG (and I had skied the place only a couple of times, but immediate feel in love with the place).

rfarren wrote:
soulskier wrote:You know, we have begun conceptualizing about creating a MRA freestyle/jib ski-energy center in an urban setting with a large population base.

Take a city with a lot of snow and a bunch of kids with nothing else to do, combine it with our hippy ideological theories, and make the planet a better place!


SLC...??? What other city in North America fits that idea?


Hippy ideological theories and SLC??? There are a few cities that I can think of.
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby soulskier » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:36 pm

rfarren wrote:
soulskier wrote:You know, we have begun conceptualizing about creating a MRA freestyle/jib ski-energy center in an urban setting with a large population base.

Take a city with a lot of snow and a bunch of kids with nothing else to do, combine it with our hippy ideological theories, and make the planet a better place!


SLC...??? What other city in North America fits that idea?


Top 5 Snowiest US Metropolitan Areas over 1 Million

1. 100.3 Rochester, NY 1,039,000
2. 97.0 Buffalo, NY 1,147,000
3. 61.0 Denver, CO 2,316,000
4. 60.0 Cleveland, OH 2,126,000
5. 50.0 Hartford, CT 1,188,000


Top 10 Snowiest Cities over 100,000 in the US and Canada

1. 130.0 Quebec City 169,000
2. 113.4 Sherbrooke 141,000
3. 111.9 Syracuse, NY 147,000
4. 110.0 Ville du Saguenay 146,000
5. 108.0 Sudbury 155,000
6. 107.0 Halifax 119,000
7. 100.3 Rochester, NY 219,000
8. 97.0 Buffalo, NY 292,000
9. 95.7 Montreal 1,039,000
10. 90.0 Erie, PA 102,000
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby rfarren » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:01 pm

soulskier wrote:Top 5 Snowiest US Metropolitan Areas over 1 Million

1. 100.3 Rochester, NY 1,039,000
2. 97.0 Buffalo, NY 1,147,000
3. 61.0 Denver, CO 2,316,000
4. 60.0 Cleveland, OH 2,126,000
5. 50.0 Hartford, CT 1,188,000


Top 10 Snowiest Cities over 100,000 in the US and Canada

1. 130.0 Quebec City 169,000
2. 113.4 Sherbrooke 141,000
3. 111.9 Syracuse, NY 147,000
4. 110.0 Ville du Saguenay 146,000
5. 108.0 Sudbury 155,000
6. 107.0 Halifax 119,000
7. 100.3 Rochester, NY 219,000
8. 97.0 Buffalo, NY 292,000
9. 95.7 Montreal 1,039,000
10. 90.0 Erie, PA 102,000

Maybe I'm missing something, but aside from Quebec, Denver, and Montreal, the remainder of those cities are in flat places without any sort of mountains I can think of. Am I misunderstanding something?
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby Patrick » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:15 pm

rfarren wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but aside from Quebec, Denver, and Montreal, the remainder of those cities are in flat places without any sort of mountains I can think of. Am I misunderstanding something?

Saguenay and Sherbrooke aren't flat either.

I found this list: Snowiest metro areas in Canada

Saguenay 342cm
St. John's 322
Quebec City 316
Sherbrooke 294
Sudbury 274
Trois-Rivieres 241
Ottawa – Gatineau 236
Halifax 231
Montreal 218
London 202


Snowiest places in Canada: Stewart has great mountain around.

Mt Fidelity, Glacier National Park, BC 1471
Tahtsa Lake West, BC 978
Rogers Pass, Glacier National Park, BC 933
Grouse Mountain, North Vancouver, BC 827
Pleasant Camp, BC 740
Stewart, BC 572
Nain, Newfoundland & Labrador 492
Wapta Lake, Yoho National Park, BC 479
Cap Seize, Quebec 475
Churchill Falls, Newfoundland & Labrador 465
Goose, Newfoundland & Labrador 459
Revelstoke, BC 425
Corner Brook, Newfoundland & Labrador 422
St Cassien Des Caps, Quebec 416
Sept-Iles, Quebec 412
Whistler, BC 411
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby Marc_C » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:04 am

Patrick wrote:
rfarren wrote:
soulskier wrote:You know, we have begun conceptualizing about creating a MRA freestyle/jib ski-energy center in an urban setting with a large population base.

Take a city with a lot of snow and a bunch of kids with nothing else to do, combine it with our hippy ideological theories, and make the planet a better place!


SLC...??? What other city in North America fits that idea?


Hippy ideological theories and SLC??? There are a few cities that I can think of.

Which shows you don't know SLC at all.
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby soulskier » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:17 am

rfarren wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but aside from Quebec, Denver, and Montreal, the remainder of those cities are in flat places without any sort of mountains I can think of. Am I misunderstanding something?


A freestyle center really doesn't need much elevation gain these days.
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby rfarren » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:58 am

soulskier wrote:
rfarren wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but aside from Quebec, Denver, and Montreal, the remainder of those cities are in flat places without any sort of mountains I can think of. Am I misunderstanding something?


A freestyle center really doesn't need much elevation gain these days.


Oh I see, so it's no so much about big terrain anymore as much as big air. One question though, and I don't mean this to be antagonistic, but isn't a half pipe really expensive to make and maintain. I though half-pipes and jumps t required a lot of snow blowing and a couple of snowcats to work a couple of weeks. If you have something else planned let me know, but I'm not sure how this fits within your original mission statement.
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby jamesdeluxe » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:14 am

Tony Crocker wrote:All true, but remember soulskier turns his nose up at eastern skiing. :stir:

This MRA discussion has become a purely intellectual exercise. I wasn't seriously implying that Soul Skier should consider Bolton. His cultural and skiing roots are in the west, and he has no intention of relocating to the northeast (just like I have no intention of moving back to the Rockies), so I understand where he's coming from.

The fact that the well-traveled JSpin calls Bolton his home hill -- and has posted hundreds of photos with :drool:-worthy conditions to back up his words -- is evidence enough for me that it would be an interesting test ground for some sort of back-to-the-roots ski-area model. It just wouldn't necessarily be Soul Skier's model because it doesn't have the gnar/vertical factor or western location.
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby soulskier » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:37 am

rfarren wrote:
soulskier wrote:
rfarren wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but aside from Quebec, Denver, and Montreal, the remainder of those cities are in flat places without any sort of mountains I can think of. Am I misunderstanding something?


A freestyle center really doesn't need much elevation gain these days.


Oh I see, so it's no so much about big terrain anymore as much as big air. One question though, and I don't mean this to be antagonistic, but isn't a half pipe really expensive to make and maintain. I though half-pipes and jumps t required a lot of snow blowing and a couple of snowcats to work a couple of weeks. If you have something else planned let me know, but I'm not sure how this fits within your original mission statement.


As mentioned earlier, we are conceptualizing a MRA Freestyle area. This would be totally different experience than lift served big mountain skiing, but with the same core hippy values, incorporating clean energy and social responsibility into the business model.

So yes, it's about big terrain still, this is another type of project all together.
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Re: Is the ski resort model dead?

Postby Mike Bernstein » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:10 pm

soulskier wrote:As mentioned earlier, we are conceptualizing a MRA Freestyle area. This would be totally different experience than lift served big mountain skiing, but with the same core hippy values, incorporating clean energy and social responsibility into the business model.

So yes, it's about big terrain still, this is another type of project all together.

Diversifying away from your core business model/idea before you're even in business - always a solid plan. :roll:
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