Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Topics of a general nature regarding snowsports, which don't easily fit into one of our other Liftlines categories. This is also the place to post Letters to the Editor.

Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby Marc_C » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:49 am

Patrick wrote:There is a minimum notice and pay that the fired employee is entitled.

As Geoff pointed out in his post, this is simply not true. In the US in an "at will" work situation (pretty much anything where there isn't a union or contract involved), you can be fired at any time for any reason with no notice, and severance pay is not required. Of course it would be wise from the employer's perspective to be able to show cause in the event that the employee sues for wrongful termination.
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby Tony Crocker » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:29 am

MarcC's comment above is correct in terms of legal requirement. But many companies (and most large ones) have a handbook with a severance pay schedule based upon years of service. The employee gets that severance unless the dismissal was for cause. From what we've read so far, I wouldn't want to be the one defending the "cause" in court in this instance.

We also know that Canada is likely to be more intrusive in the affairs of business than the U.S. Perhaps Patrick or someone else can enlighten us about any legal requirements in Canada related to job termination. However Canada does keep their lawyers on a shorter leash than here, so the potential big bucks for punitive damages are not there as they might be in the U.S.
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby Geoff » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:33 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:MarcC's comment above is correct in terms of legal requirement.


Actually, they're not. In Canada, there is a severance or prior notice schedule for termination without cause. I think the Canadian federal maximum is 8 weeks pay for 8 years of service. Ontario is much more generous. I think it goes up to 26 weeks. I know lots of ex-Nortel people scattered around the telecom industry who lived through that. I'm not sure about Alberta but I'd bet it's a right-leaning enough place that the max is the federal 8 weeks after 8 years of employment.

Like I wrote earlier, the legal battle is going to be about whether this was termination with cause. The side of the story that makes the internet is that some patroller had an incident with the owner's son and was let go a few weeks later. What we don't know is what that patroller said and did in the weeks after the incident that provoked his termination. I don't care if you live in some gold-plated ski town... If you bad mouth your employer, that's grounds for termination with cause. I work for a company that sells equipment to the Cable TV industry. If I shot my mouth off in front of my companies' customers, I'd expect to get marched out the door. I signed an employment agreement that has a non-disclosure agreement in it. I violated the contract. I don't see any difference between that and shooting your mouth off in front of ski resort customers in a bar, on the internet, or to the press.
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby Marc_C » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:58 pm

Geoff wrote:
Tony Crocker wrote:MarcC's comment above is correct in terms of legal requirement.


Actually, they're not. In Canada, there is a severance or prior notice schedule for termination without cause. I think the Canadian federal maximum is 8 weeks pay for 8 years of service.

Obviously I was speaking from a strictly US-centric viewpoint, conveniently having forgotten that Sunshine is indeed in Canada, our 51st state to the north.
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby Patrick » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:59 pm

Geoff wrote:
Tony Crocker wrote:MarcC's comment above is correct in terms of legal requirement.


Actually, they're not. In Canada, there is a severance or prior notice schedule for termination without cause.


Thank you Geoff for the informed response. Marc C and Tony are wrong.

Geoff wrote:If you bad mouth your employer, that's grounds for termination with cause.


If you read the information coming out is that one of them would have been officially fired for a clerical reason and one wasn't given the cause except that 'blood is thinker than water'. The 5th one fired, was asked to sign a letter of apolology to the son of the owner (which he did), but was fired anyways at the end of that day.

Sunshine was sued before (maybe 10 years ago) for wrongfull dismayal and lost. It wasn't a high profil case, but they dragged it out as long as they could. But in the end, they had to pay the ex-employee, the interest + legal fees of fired employee. Sunshine has a few days before they have to submit their statement of defense for the courts. It should be interesting.

Tony Crocker wrote:We also know that Canada is likely to be more intrusive in the affairs of business than the U.S.


More intrusive... [-( Firing an employee that been working without any notice (or warning) and cutting the cash at the moment isn't more intrusive, it's common sense (unless you've done something illegal or real bad). :evil:
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby Patrick » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:06 pm

In order news:


Two face trespassing charges after triggering an avalanche

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/face+ ... story.html

Two snowboarders who triggered an avalanche Monday after entering a closed area of Sunshine Village are facing trespassing charges, authorities say.

"Our ski patrollers today responded exactly in the manner we hoped they would," he said.


Double standards?
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby Tony Crocker » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:45 pm

Patrick wrote:... and Tony are wrong.

??? I specifically said I did not know what the rules in Canada were, and suspected that there might be a basic legal liability that might not exist in the U.S. And invited Patrick to enlighten us as to those requirements.

I'm definitely on Patrick's side on this one, and I hope (based upon what we know so far) that the local Canadian skiers are making Sunshine feel it in the pocketbook this season.
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby Marc_C » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:51 pm

Patrick wrote:Thank you Geoff for the informed response. Marc C and Tony are wrong.

Hey! I already retracted in the post just above yours!
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby soulskier » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:59 pm

Sunshine Village Files Statements of Defence

http://www.mrablog.com/sunshine-village ... f-defence/
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby soulskier » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:03 am

Sunshine Village sent TGR a Cease and Desist Order on the Firings

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/show ... hine-Posts
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby EMSC » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:37 am

soulskier wrote:Sunshine Village sent TGR a Cease and Desist Order on the Firings

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/show ... hine-Posts


Wow, I can hardly imagine a worse way to handle their PR... Resuscitate almost forgotten issues that had put a bad taste in many of the skiing communities mouths to start with? Yikes, they need a new law firm or outside PR manager or both.
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby soulskier » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:09 pm

EMSC wrote:
soulskier wrote:Sunshine Village sent TGR a Cease and Desist Order on the Firings

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/show ... hine-Posts


Wow, I can hardly imagine a worse way to handle their PR... Resuscitate almost forgotten issues that had put a bad taste in many of the skiing communities mouths to start with? Yikes, they need a new law firm or outside PR manager or both.


I couldn't agree more. I have been less than impressed with the whole PR campaign that SSV has been executing. Maybe they will argue the whole world will know about the case and they can't get a fair trial?
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby soulskier » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:44 pm

Sunshine Village: Bad Move Bullying TGR

Ski Bum Blog, April 25

http://skibumauthor.com/2011/04/25/suns ... lying-tgr/
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby soulskier » Thu May 12, 2011 11:04 am

Sunshine Village Watch, A New Ski Resort Watchdog Group Formed

http://www.mrablog.com/new-ski-resort-w ... up-formed/
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Re: Turmoil at Sunshine Village

Postby Geoff » Sat May 14, 2011 9:24 am

Geoff wrote:It depends on whether it is termination with cause or not. I don't know about Canada but in the US, saying negative things about your company outside of work usually violates your non-disclosure agreement you sign the day you start work. If the sled dog was mouthing off in the bar about the unfairness of it all before he got canned, his employer has every right to fire him with cause. Same goes for the rest of them.


I still stick by this comment. I think the internet spew on this is extremely one-sided. We have no idea what those employees did that caused them to get fired. There is no inherent right of free speech for corporate employees. If you bad mouth your company to their customers, you deserve to get marched out the door. I know for certain that if I did a tell-all to my employer's customers, I wouldn't survive 5 minutes and I'd be unemployable in the industry. I don't comprehend the sense of entitlement of resort town employees. It's not like the resort owes them a job. When soulskier's little shoestring operation falls on hard times or makes hiring mistakes and they have to fire people, I really hope he receives the same scruitiny he's subjecting other employers to.
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