Will need passport to cross the US-Canada border in 2007-8.

Will this affect your crossborder ski trip?

  • YES, I don't need a passport - will stop skiing away from home

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NO, but will need to get a passport

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NO, I always have a valid passport

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NOT AFFECTED: always ski in my home country

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Patrick

Active member
This topic could be in the General Discussion, however I know that many skiers/boarders from the East crossed the border to go skiing/boarding.

in 2007 most Canadians will need a passport to enter the United States.

And by 2008, most Americans who visit Canada won't be able to re-enter their country without a passport.

The changes are part of border-security measures the United States will phase in over the next three years that are likely to have a major impact on U.S. tourism and even on the number of Americans who make short trips to Canada.

I am wondering what impact this will have for certain ski areas along the Quebec-Vermont that have a high number of skiers/boarder from the other side of the border. Jay Peak is the first area that comes to mind, but also the Eastern Townships areas, Titus, etc.

Will you get a passport (and keep it valid) just to be able to ski on the other side of the border?

Here is the whole CBC story:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national ... 50405.html
 
I am wondering what impact this will have for certain ski areas along the Quebec-Vermont that have a high number of skiers/boarder from the other side of the border. Jay Peak is the first area that comes to mind, but also the Eastern Townships areas, Titus, etc.

Will you get a passport (and keep it valid) just to be able to ski on the other side of the border?

Here is the whole CBC story:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national ... 50405.html[/quote]

I went ahead and moved this to the General Discussion section anyway, what with Seattleites going to Whistler, etc.

I don't know, aside from the cost and inconvenience for those who don't already have a passport, I don't see it as that big a deal, nor as much of a departure from what's in place currently. As things stand now, a driver's license hasn't been a guarantee of crossing since 9/11 when they started to often insist upon a certified birth certificate along with photo ID, or a passport. For Québecois that's not such a big deal, for you folks use those little laminated birth certificates that most of you seem to carry, but for me I wouldn't have a clue where my birth certificate is right now. Since 9/11, I've begun carrying my passport anytime I drive across the border.

For those flying or taking other modes of public transport, the new regulation takes effect at the end of 2006. The need to have one when driving yourself across the border doesn't take effect until 2008. I suspect that you'll see a balloon of new passport applications between now and then.
 
Admin":a9zbrpwv said:
I don't know, aside from the cost and inconvenience for those who don't already have a passport, I don't see it as that big a deal, nor as much of a departure from what's in place currently.

It's not an issue for me, because we travel to Europe now and then (vacations or in-laws), however for some non-big travellers folks, the extra cost for each member CAN be a bit much just to ski Jay a few times a year. :?

Admin":a9zbrpwv said:
As things stand now, a driver's license hasn't been a guarantee of crossing since 9/11 when they started to often insist upon a certified birth certificate along with photo ID, or a passport.

Sorry, never did carry any extra stuff that I usually have in my wallet and was never asked (ie. not passport or birth cerficate where ever that is :roll: ). My wife carries her citizenship card (born in France). And I do cross the border at least a few times in the Winter. :shock:

Admin":a9zbrpwv said:
For Québecois that's not such a big deal, for you folks use those little laminated birth certificates that most of you seem to carry.

What? I know I live in Ontario now, but I have never seen anyone with one. I know they exist, but there not that common. :shock:
 
I'm sure that some people will be deterred by this, but personally I can't see the big deal. A passport is not particularly difficult or expensive to get -- we're talking about something like $50 if I remember right -- and it's valid for 10 years. Worth getting even if it's not required, just to speed things up and avoid potential hassles at the border.
 
My opinion is that we should already be doing this. When Al Solish and I went cat skiing in January, he forgot his passport and we were detained for ~20 minutes at a car border crossing between Spokane and Rossland going into Canada. He had a copy of his passport faxed to him while in Canada, so we had a fairly smooth reentry in the U.S.

If you don't have a passport they want a birth certificate, and who carries that around all the time?
 
20thSkier":2tlmuywp said:
I'm sure that some people will be deterred by this, but personally I can't see the big deal. A passport is not particularly difficult or expensive to get -- we're talking about something like $50 if I remember right -- and it's valid for 10 years. Worth getting even if it's not required, just to speed things up and avoid potential hassles at the border.

This is exactly what I was thinking on this one. I don't see the big deal in having a more stringently controlled form of Photo ID to cross a boarder into another sovereign nation. This IMHO hold true both for Americans and Canadiens. I think that everyone crossing the boarder into or out of any country in this day and age should have to produce a valid passport. they are not that hard to obtain if you legally should be allowed to get one.
 
I'm not sure if this specific law makes a difference, but realistically, this may impact my ski trips outside the US.

I have an active passport. I agree with Tony and others that this probably makes sense. However, I travel with a large and diverse group of people. I have friends legally living in this country from Mexico, Italy, Canada, and New Zealand (through visas, marriage, and new citezenship). They all have no end to the bueracratic horror stories that the US has has put them through. In fact, my mother is a US citizen by all standards but was born out-of-country and doesn't actually have the paperwork to prove her citizenship. Our family vacations north of the border were always very stressful, and she hasn't left the country since 911 as a result. It's not a matter of getting out of the US, it's the uneasy feeling that you might not get back in. All these people are 100% on the up-and-up but it's very easy to find yourself in conflict with American policy if there isn't the appropriate bueracratic box to check.

If I'm travelling alone, or with my "standard american" friends, I wouldn't hesitate to hit Canada. But otherwise we'll probably take Jay over Tremblant just in case.
 
Cannonball":17bgtarb said:
I have friends legally living in this country from Mexico, Italy, Canada, and New Zealand (through visas, marriage, and new citezenship). They all have no end to the bueracratic horror stories that the US has has put them through.

As someone who used to have a x-border relationship, and I ended up marrying her (a Canadian) and sponsoring her immigration status, I could write a book. :roll:
 
Cannonball":kfjq7lvq said:
I'm not sure if this specific law makes a difference, but realistically, this may impact my ski trips outside the US.

I have an active passport. I agree with Tony and others that this probably makes sense. However, I travel with a large and diverse group of people. I have friends legally living in this country from Mexico, Italy, Canada, and New Zealand (through visas, marriage, and new citezenship). They all have no end to the bueracratic horror stories that the US has has put them through. In fact, my mother is a US citizen by all standards but was born out-of-country and doesn't actually have the paperwork to prove her citizenship. Our family vacations north of the border were always very stressful, and she hasn't left the country since 911 as a result. It's not a matter of getting out of the US, it's the uneasy feeling that you might not get back in. All these people are 100% on the up-and-up but it's very easy to find yourself in conflict with American policy if there isn't the appropriate bueracratic box to check.

If I'm travelling alone, or with my "standard american" friends, I wouldn't hesitate to hit Canada. But otherwise we'll probably take Jay over Tremblant just in case.

I agree absolutely. This isn't something new or changed by this particular policy -- it's been bad that way since 9/11. I'm in grad school in the sciences, so I have a number of foreign friends who are physicists and molecular biologists. When they hear that at the border it can be a disaster. I had one friend who couldn't get back into the US for 11 months! He was here on a perfectly valid student visa and was supposed to be able to leave the country for whatever reason and get back in no problem. But they see "physics student" at the border and get scared of nuclear bombs or whatever and decide special security checks are necessary. And then can't be bothered to actually do the check for nearly a year! Another person I know was stuck for close to 6 months and only got back in after the americans in the family got their congressman involved. Unfortunately these are not isolated incidents -- certainly not worth risking to go skiing.

BTW though, can't your mom just get a US passport? If she's a citizen she's entitled, and if there's any confusion or difficulty about proof of this it can be worked out from within the US without risk to her. As I understand it, she's a US citizen if either parent was a US citizen when she was born (easy to prove) or if she's been naturalized (of which there'll be records). And the social security administration can also usually (though not always) verify citizenship. Then she wouldn't have to worry at the border.
 
I guess I'm sort of glad to hear I'm not the only one who's seen this issue. As Mark indicated, the stories could fill a book...or volumes. Sometimes I've been embarased to be from the US when I hear the bueracratic nonsense people go through. I think the most frustrating part is that it's the people who play by the rules that get penalized, while the illegals have no problem.


BTW though, can't your mom just get a US passport?

Yeah, probably, but she fears the beurocracy. Her father was from Spain but became a US citizen. Her mother was from Maine, but didn't speak english because she was more closely associated with the french in Canada than the Americans. She was born in Mexico and grew up in american compounds in Columbia and Brazil because of my grandfather's work. Because of this unique situation and the tunnel vision of immigration laws, she's alway been afraid that her situation may not fit into an appropriate "check-box" and she might find herself under unjustified scrutiny.

I can't really argue with the concept of national security, etc. I just wish hard-working people weren't the victims.

Did I mention how much I LOVE skiing Whistler/Blacomb???
 
I don't understand why this is a big deal. You can apply for a passport at any major post office. It's good for 10 years and it only costs $55. It's far less hassle than renewing your driver's license as long as you have a birth certificate.

I carry my passport with me whenever I'm out of the country. That includes Canada. This policy change doesn't impact me at all.

What I'd like to see is an automation of airport security and passport control. They should set up automated fingerprint or retana scan gear. If you fly a lot, you get an initial scan and clearance. At airport security, you swipe your passport with encoded scan information, feed your boarding pass through the bar code reader, do the automated scan, and go on your way.
 
Geoff":j6m4zulg said:
It's good for 10 years and it only costs $55. It's far less hassle than renewing your driver's license as long as you have a birth certificate.

Either...

1) a US Passport is real easy to get.

2) a Driver's License in the US are really hard to renew. :shock:

Canadian Passport are good for 5 years, definately need more work than renewing a Driver's license.

I personnaly think it's a bad idea, it's going to affect alot of same towns along the border who have always lived side-by-side (some of them split in two by a imaginary line drawn many years ago across their communities and something even buildings.

I am not sure here, but European don't need a passport to travel around in the European community.
 
Patrick":17mdlera said:
Geoff":17mdlera said:
It's good for 10 years and it only costs $55. It's far less hassle than renewing your driver's license as long as you have a birth certificate.

Either...

1) a US Passport is real easy to get.

Yep. Birth certificate. 2 passport photos. Show up at any large post office. Fill out the form. Write a $55 check. The passport shows up ~ 2 months later.

2) a Driver's License in the US are really hard to renew. :shock:

In many states, it takes 2 or 3 hours of waiting in lines to renew your drivers license.

Canadian Passport are good for 5 years, definately need more work than renewing a Driver's license.

I personnaly think it's a bad idea, it's going to affect alot of same towns along the border who have always lived side-by-side (some of them split in two by a imaginary line drawn many years ago across their communities and something even buildings.

I am not sure here, but European don't need a passport to travel around in the European community.

As soon as the United States annexes Canada, I'm sure the same will be the case on the Canadian border. 8) 8)
 
Geoff":bvi513cx said:
As soon as the United States annexes Canada, I'm sure the same will be the case on the Canadian border

I am sure the Democrates would be very happy. :lol:
 
Tony Crocker":3097xn1s said:
But then France would annex Quebec. :lol:

Oh please... I don't mean to be offensive here but France does not have the military potency to annex a cheeseburger. They have never even put a serious effort into the defense of their own capitol.
 
Patrick":2n2a7ndj said:
Geoff":2n2a7ndj said:
It's good for 10 years and it only costs $55. It's far less hassle than renewing your driver's license as long as you have a birth certificate.

Either...

1) a US Passport is real easy to get.

2) a Driver's License in the US are really hard to renew. :shock:

Canadian Passport are good for 5 years, definately need more work than renewing a Driver's license.

I personnaly think it's a bad idea, it's going to affect alot of same towns along the border who have always lived side-by-side (some of them split in two by a imaginary line drawn many years ago across their communities and something even buildings.

I am not sure here, but European don't need a passport to travel around in the European community.

I took my family skiing north to Quebec in 2003. At the Canada station I handed over passports for my wife and I and we had our kids birth certs at the ready. The officer handed them back and asked for our driver's licenses instead. Go Figure.
 
billski":ydoukcmr said:
I took my family skiing north to Quebec in 2003. At the Canada station I handed over passports for my wife and I and we had our kids birth certs at the ready. The officer handed them back and asked for our driver's licenses instead. Go Figure.

As it's always been, enforcement is selective. January 2004 we had a group gathering, stationed at a hotel in Sutton. A buddy of mine -- a family man in his 50s, along with his wife -- were nearly turned back by the Canadian authorities because he didn't bring his birth certificate or passport, just his driver's license. After much hassle the border guard eventually relented and let them into Canada. I bring this up only to show that YMMV.

I used to cross often back in the mid-90s, sometimes 4 or 5 times per week. Sometimes I was just asked the purpose of my trip and nothing more before being waved through. Other times I was given the 9th degree and had the vehicle thoroughly searched. My dashboard lights behind the climate control system in my car still don't work following a "thorough" search a couple of years back while re-entering the U.S.
 
Admin":3bf96ve2 said:
I used to cross often back in the mid-90s, sometimes 4 or 5 times per week. Sometimes I was just asked the purpose of my trip and nothing more before being waved through. Other times I was given the 9th degree and had the vehicle thoroughly searched. My dashboard lights behind the climate control system in my car still don't work following a "thorough" search a couple of years back while re-entering the U.S.

Throughtly searched the car while entering the US in the mid-90? Sound familiar, they were looking at removing the door panel. :roll:

I remember losing at least 45 minutes at the border, probably because it's was June and 90 degrees :roll: and the border guard where I was going?

Skiing, of course. :mrgreen: Pull over and what are you smoking? :lol:
 
Two years since the last post on this topic.

Well, I got my passport two weeks ago. I didn't want to wait until the new regulation came into effect (plus my passport expired in 2003 and thinking of travelling). The Passport office in Canada have been extremely busy and normal delays became at sometimes a few months ago almost impossible.

It's looks like the US is having issue on their own. One of my main complains is the Passport requirements was thought up by people that don't live in border communities and states, it might be a good idea, but what the Canadian government wasn't able to convince the US Government that their timeline was unrealistic. However know they are noticing that they weren't prepared also.

I'm not trying to be political, just pointing to something that getting some headlines here instead of Paris Hilton or that $65 million lawsuit against a cleaner that lost a pair of pants.

Here are a few quotes...full stories with the links.

CBC News story

U.S. politicians vote to delay passport rules for U.S. travellers

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/06/1 ... layed.html

The State Department has been flooded with passport applications since new rules requiring passports for air travellers went into effect in January. The resulting backlog has caused delays of up to three months for passports and ruined or delayed the travel plans of thousands of Americans.

In response, the government has already temporarily waived a passport requirement for air travel, provided people can demonstrate they've applied for a passport.

The Department of Homeland Security wants passports for everyone driving across the border into Canada or Mexico beginning in January 2008 ? a rule that some experts believe will lead to a fourfold increase in demand for new passports.

Toronto Star

U.S. votes to delay passport rule

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/225971

And it's a clear sign that politicians are fed up with a huge backlog in passport applications since the rule for air travellers went into effect Jan. 23, prompting frustrated Americans to flood their constituency offices with complaints.

"This is an important victory for cross-border trade and tourism," said Len Crispino, president of the Ontario Chamber of Commerce. "Delays at our border are already costing our economies billions of dollars and threatening tens of thousands of jobs."

New York Democrat Louise Slaughter, long a vocal critic of the passport plan, said legislators no longer trust President George W. Bush's administration to get it right.

"We must never sacrifice our relationship with Canada in a misguided attempt to increase border security," she said. "I have long said that economic security and physical security are not mutually exclusive. We can and must have both."

Congress gave administration officials the option last year of waiting 17 months before requiring passports at land and sea crossings, instead of going ahead in January 2008 as planned.

But Homeland officials, saying they don't need the extra time, are pressing ahead.

With Americans waiting up to three months before getting their passports, administration officials were forced last week to give flyers a break until the end of September.

Government estimates say the second phase of the passport rule requiring the document at land and sea crossings could quadruple the number of passport applications to 27 million from about six million.

"Nobody can say with the straight face that the federal government is ready for this," said Republican Steven LaTourette of Ohio.

Said Slaughter: "You can't deny what we've done here. But they'll try."

This week, two senators urged the administration to acknowledge it needs more time before it can put in place the entire security plan passed by Congress in 2004 in response to the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.

Democrat Patrick Leahy and Republican Ted Stevens said public statements about sticking to the looming January deadline are adding to the mountain of passport applications.

"The administration is walking blithely toward a cliff with this program, and they're threatening to take millions of Americans with them," said Leahy, a Democrat from Vermont.

"Their competence in being able to get this right was already in question, and when they keep insisting they'll be ready in six months, so is their judgment."

Legislators say Homeland Security shouldn't get all of the $250 million it plans to spend on implementing the passport rule until they figure out if enhanced driver's licences containing proof of citizenship could be used instead.

A pilot project to investigate that possibility is slated to start in a few months at crossings between British Columbia and Washington state.

Politicians also want full testing of so-called passcards ? a planned alternative for Americans that are cheaper than passports ? as well as an extensive cost-benefit analysis of the entire security plan.
 
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