Manitoba Mountain, Spirit of the Kenai

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Soulskier continues to hype the 10,000 acres. How many acres are lift/gravity traverse/Alta-type ~5 minute hike accessible? How many acres will be avalanche controlled by patrol?
 
I like the website and I wish you success.

However, for once I actually agree with Tony. I think "With three surface lifts, the ski area will offer access to more then 10,000 acres of legendary Chugach terrain" is misleading as it does infer that those 10000 acres are either lift served or very easily accessed from the lifts as is the case at Powder Mountain, Utah,

I would say very few will be patrolled and I'm keen to learn what the policy will be out there.
 
Read their website. 1,000 acres of in-bounds and the 10K acres number is "within a 2 hour hike". Looking at the pictures on the website (which now works for me obviously), I'd have to wild guess that maybe an additional 500 to 1,000 acres are available with a short (15 min or less) hike. Wild guess on my part though.
 
"within a 2 hour hike"
does not cut it for me as reasonable marketing. It's blatantly misleading IMHO. How many North American ski areas have more than 10,000 acres of ski terrain within a 2 hour hike from the lifts? A lot I would suspect.
 
Tony Crocker":qp1lr1mx said:
"within a 2 hour hike"
does not cut it for me as reasonable marketing. It's blatantly misleading IMHO. How many North American ski areas have more than 10,000 acres of ski terrain within a 2 hour hike from the lifts? A lot I would suspect.

Maybe a better question is how many ski areas have Heli-Skiing type terrain accessible directly from their lifts?
 
soulskier":2zazxwxe said:
Tony Crocker":2zazxwxe said:
"within a 2 hour hike"
does not cut it for me as reasonable marketing. It's blatantly misleading IMHO. How many North American ski areas have more than 10,000 acres of ski terrain within a 2 hour hike from the lifts? A lot I would suspect.

Maybe a better question is how many ski areas have Heli-Skiing type terrain accessible directly from their lifts?
Oh, please get serious and quit bullshitting us. Using that criteria, all four Cottonwood Canyon resorts in UT....and without a two hour hike. That much of a hike would give you almost all of Wasatch Powder Birds permit area. A two hour hike is not lift accessible for any but the most deluded.
 
Marc_C":32v4dtwc said:
Oh, please get serious and quit bullshitting us. Using that criteria, all four Cottonwood Canyon resorts in UT....and without a two hour hike. That much of a hike would give you almost all of Wasatch Powder Birds permit area. A two hour hike is not lift accessible for any but the most deluded.

When you come visit, I'll break trail.
 
soulskier":opvmqnig said:
Maybe a better question is how many ski areas have Heli-Skiing type terrain accessible directly from their lifts?
In addition to MarcC's examples, Jackson, Bridger, Squaw/Alpine/Sugar Bowl, Crystal come to mind. Within 2 hours hike above the lifts, you can see some amazing terrain at Telluride. For that matter I'll bet icelantic can get to that level of terrain in the Presidential Range of NH within 2 hours.

I am on record here of wishing for Manitoba Mountain to succeed. But I really, really despise over-the-top marketing hype and wish soulskier would cut it out.
 
Tony Crocker":2kuaftz5 said:
soulskier":2kuaftz5 said:
Maybe a better question is how many ski areas have Heli-Skiing type terrain accessible directly from their lifts?
In addition to MarcC's examples, Jackson, Bridger, Squaw/Alpine/Sugar Bowl, Crystal come to mind. Within 2 hours hike above the lifts, you can see some amazing terrain at Telluride. For that matter I'll bet icelantic can get to that level of terrain in the Presidential Range of NH within 2 hours.

I am on record here of wishing for Manitoba Mountain to succeed. But I really, really despise over-the-top marketing hype and wish soulskier would cut it out.


They're also hyping 3BL for a business that has never shown a penny of profit. Are all employees getting health insurance, dental, long term disability? Are all employees getting paid a living wage? Are the employees getting education benefits? Is the business truly green? Can I take public transportation to get there or do I have to spew emissions from my car to get there?
 
Tony Crocker":31kjb7st said:
soulskier":31kjb7st said:
Maybe a better question is how many ski areas have Heli-Skiing type terrain accessible directly from their lifts?
In addition to MarcC's examples, Jackson, Bridger, Squaw/Alpine/Sugar Bowl, Crystal come to mind. Within 2 hours hike above the lifts, you can see some amazing terrain at Telluride. For that matter I'll bet icelantic can get to that level of terrain in the Presidential Range of NH within 2 hours.

I am on record here of wishing for Manitoba Mountain to succeed. But I really, really despise over-the-top marketing hype and wish soulskier would cut it out.

The top lift puts you on the doorstep of some of the rowdiest, big mountain skiing on the planet, not to mention a reliable snowpack. As discussed earlier, there is a segment of the ski population that are currently not having their needs met. Furthermore, the up and coming kids are going to need bigger mountains to play in, as the talent level is quicky increasing in today's youth. With the exception of Silverton, no other ski area is really filling this niche.

Terrain like directly outside Manitoba's backcountry gate normally requires a helicopter or a big approach, often in deep powder (not easy). Also, the uniqueness of the zone is that all the terrain filters back to the base or to the Seward highway.

The out of bounds experience would be something comparable to Chamonix or La Grave, where you may only ski a few descents per day, but they are like mini-expeditions. The mind set is totally different than banging out laps at a typical ski resort. It's not for everyone, and likely not for many readers of this forum, which is perfectly OK.

The other ski resorts mentioned simply are not in the same league, with respect to big, sustained steep terrain. To suggest that there is comparable terrain in the Presidential Range (or anywhere in the lower 48) is inaccurate. In fact, the terrain in Alaska, from an expert level/big mountain skier's stand point is in a league of it's own.

Please note, I am not trying to be elistist. I am trying to explain that what we are proposing at Manitoba Mountain, from out of bounds skiing standpoint, will be a game changer in North America.
 
Can't remember if I already asked this, but I'm curious how much Soul Skier has been in touch with Aaron/Jen Brill -- what he's learned from Silverton and how he's applying it to Manitoba.

I have no clue how much of the spaghetti that's being thrown at SS in this forum will turn out to be true, but it's fascinating to see how people here seem to be taking this ski area as a personal affront, as if he'd insulted their mothers. Even if some of his statements here are proved to be delusional or unrealistic, I salute the fact that he's putting his money/time/effort where his mouth is instead of just complaining about the status quo over and over.

For example, my brother owns a high-end stereo store in Greenwich Village. Talk about bad timing, it opened five days before 9/11. The problem with this kind of bricks-and-mortar setup is pretty obvious -- people can use his store as a listening room, pump him for information, and then order the components on the internet/Craig's List for significantly less. I have no idea how he's stayed alive, especially if you note that most stereo stores have gone the way of the dodo bird, but the business is approaching its tenth anniversary and doing well. Everyone, including me, told him he was nuts, but he had a vision and created an unlikely niche.
 
jamesdeluxe":108i9hx0 said:
Can't remember if I already asked this, but I'm curious how much Soul Skier has been in touch with Aaron/Jen Brill -- what he's learned from Silverton and how he's applying it to Manitoba.

I have no clue how much of the spaghetti that's being thrown at SS in this forum will turn out to be true, but it's fascinating to see how people here seem to be taking this ski area as a personal affront, as if he'd insulted their mothers. Even if some of his statements here are proved to be delusional or unrealistic, I salute the fact that he's putting his money/time/effort where his mouth is instead of just complaining about the status quo over and over.

That's for the nice words and reassuring shot in the arm.

I have been in contact with a member of management at Silverton for the past several years. They have given some great insight. I admire what the Brills have done and consider them both an inspiration.
 
jamesdeluxe":20oh2rtx said:
I have no clue how much of the spaghetti that's being thrown at SS in this forum will turn out to be true, but it's fascinating to see how people here seem to be taking this ski area as a personal affront, as if he'd insulted their mothers. Even if some of his statements here are proved to be delusional or unrealistic, I salute the fact that he's putting his money/time/effort where his mouth is instead of just complaining about the status quo over and over.
I agree completely with the last sentence. Just to be clear, like Tony, I also would like to see Manitoba succeed, as it does represent a distinctly different style of ski area, in the spirit of Silverton and MRG. What I do take affront to is inflated, basically dishonest marketing hype of the type that is endemic in the business. The repeated reference to 10K acres is one example. Being "family oriented", despite whatever that exactly means, is another. So are estimates of the visitation when the major population base would have to drive significantly beyond Alyeska (which does have the infrastructure and services for families). Sooner or later Manitoba will be seeking investors in the form of coop share owners and we've already seen in these threads a distinctly idealistic, probably unrealistic, and obscenely optimistic projection of the project's visitation and finances.

So yes, be successful, but cut out the overinflated hype and be conservatively rational in the financial estimates. It's those latter two that continue to rankle me, Tony, Geoff, rfarren, et al.
 
Marc_C":24xxg87a said:
jamesdeluxe":24xxg87a said:
I have no clue how much of the spaghetti that's being thrown at SS in this forum will turn out to be true, but it's fascinating to see how people here seem to be taking this ski area as a personal affront, as if he'd insulted their mothers. Even if some of his statements here are proved to be delusional or unrealistic, I salute the fact that he's putting his money/time/effort where his mouth is instead of just complaining about the status quo over and over.
I agree completely with the last sentence. Just to be clear, like Tony, I also would like to see Manitoba succeed, as it does represent a distinctly different style of ski area, in the spirit of Silverton and MRG. What I do take affront to is inflated, basically dishonest marketing hype of the type that is endemic in the business. The repeated reference to 10K acres is one example. Being "family oriented", despite whatever that exactly means, is another. So are estimates of the visitation when the major population base would have to drive significantly beyond Alyeska (which does have the infrastructure and services for families). Sooner or later Manitoba will be seeking investors in the form of coop share owners and we've already seen in these threads a distinctly idealistic, probably unrealistic, and obscenely optimistic projection of the project's visitation and finances.

So yes, be successful, but cut out the overinflated hype and be conservatively rational in the financial estimates. It's those latter two that continue to rankle me, Tony, Geoff, rfarren, et al.

Not sure where you are reading about the Financial estimates, as none have been published online to date?

I don't think it's a coincidence that the 4 most offended by the "over-hyping" do not ski at a level to enjoy the "10,000 acres of terrain". Many big mountain skiers are very excited about the ability to access this type of terrain for a very reasonable price, instead of dropping close to a grand for a day of heli skiing.

Again, not trying to be elitist, just pointing out that a segment of the ski population craves for this type of terrain, and currently are not having their needs meet.

I feel confident that you guys wouldn't take such issue if big mountain skiing was your fortay.
 
soulskier":1g8dv9sh said:
Marc_C":1g8dv9sh said:
It's those latter two that continue to rankle me, Tony, Geoff, rfarren, et al.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the 4 most offended by the "over-hyping" do not ski at a level to enjoy the "10,000 acres of terrain". Many big mountain skiers are very excited about the ability to access this type of terrain for a very reasonable price, instead of dropping close to a grand for a day of heli skiing.

I don't think I've ever skied with you, so I don't know why you took it upon yourself to knock my ability to ski. I spent this last March skiing mostly backcountry in Colorado, trying to find steep terrain. I'm not afraid nor hesitant to take on steep and deep in fact I actively seek it out because I like to go fast in deep snow. This comment along with your earlier knocking of MRG convinces me you're ignorant, and makes me hope that you're not in charge of pr for your product.... Besides, what if I were a poor skier but a major enthusiast of the sport, what good would it be to knock someone's skills? This is why people have pegged you as an elitist. Jamesdeluxe, if you want to know where the vitriol against SS begins just look at the comments above.

The above having been said: I was actually going to say that I am impressed that you've managed to push your project so far, and kudos to you. I actually don't have a problem with the hyping as every ski area in this nation with the exception of very few don't hype their terrain. For example Big Sky and Killington overstate their vert, Vail doesn't happen to say that their double blacks are blues at Snowbird etc.... Nonetheless, I don't think it's prudent to go on this forum and try to convince us that your mountain is a game changer, we are educated skiers and many of us have hiked 2 hours outside of major ski areas and know what's there. We also have a history of pointing out the hype different ski areas push.

My only major contention with Soulskier was his whole green electricity initiative, which IMHO is a poor business decision and believe will jeopardize his project, as the ski industry already has razor thin margins.
 
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