Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

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Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby jamesdeluxe » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:28 pm

I know that this format has succeeded in Europe, but is this a workable model for a place like Snow King? (I hope so.)
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/2011/0 ... on-profit/
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby soulskier » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:54 pm

I have heard that Teton County, according to the IRS, is the richest county in the US. Lots of philanthropic and foundation funds floating around Jackson, seems like a great place to use the non-profit model.
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby Marc_C » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:20 pm

soulskier wrote:I have heard that Teton County, according to the IRS, is the richest county in the US. Lots of philanthropic and foundation funds floating around Jackson, seems like a great place to use the non-profit model.

According to Forbes Magazine, using 2010 census data, the 25 richest counties in the US are:

Loudoun County, VA
Fairfax County, VA
Howard County, MD
Hunterdon County, NJ
Somerset County, NJ
Fairfax City, VA
Morris County, NJ
Douglas County, CO
Arlington County, VA
Montgomery County, MD
Nassau County, NY
Stafford County, VA
Calvert County, MD
Prince William County, VA
Putnam County, NY
Goochland County, VA
Williamson County, TN
Marin County, CA
Santa Clara County, CA
Forsyth County, GA
Charles County, MD
Summit County, UT
Alexandria City, VA
Chester County, PA
Suffolk County, NY

The 2011 rankings are only slightly different for the top 10:

1 Falls Church, Virginia
2 Loudoun County, Virginia
3 Fairfax County, Virginia
4 Hunterdon County, New Jersey
5 Howard County, Maryland
6 Los Alamos County, New Mexico
7 Douglas County, Colorado
8 Morris County, New Jersey
9 Somerset County, New Jersey
10 City of Fairfax, Virginia
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby EMSC » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:47 pm

jamesdeluxe wrote:I know that this format has succeeded in Europe, but is this a workable model for a place like Snow King? (I hope so.)
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/2011/0 ... on-profit/


I can't seem to recall all the places off the top of my head, but there are a number of non-profit ski areas in the US. Mt Ashland OR is run by one, Ski Cooper right next to Vail is basically run by a non-profit entity... In both those cases the local city technically owns the ski area but the city leases the ski area to be run by non-profit... Juneau Ak's resort I think is this way too, etc... Seems to work for smaller areas in many cases.
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby soulskier » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:32 pm

I would suspect the Census and/or Forbes use a different criteria than the IRS when measuring wealth.

Marc_C wrote:
soulskier wrote:I have heard that Teton County, according to the IRS, is the richest county in the US. Lots of philanthropic and foundation funds floating around Jackson, seems like a great place to use the non-profit model.

According to Forbes Magazine, using 2010 census data, the 25 richest counties in the US are:

Loudoun County, VA
Fairfax County, VA
Howard County, MD
Hunterdon County, NJ
Somerset County, NJ
Fairfax City, VA
Morris County, NJ
Douglas County, CO
Arlington County, VA
Montgomery County, MD
Nassau County, NY
Stafford County, VA
Calvert County, MD
Prince William County, VA
Putnam County, NY
Goochland County, VA
Williamson County, TN
Marin County, CA
Santa Clara County, CA
Forsyth County, GA
Charles County, MD
Summit County, UT
Alexandria City, VA
Chester County, PA
Suffolk County, NY

The 2011 rankings are only slightly different for the top 10:

1 Falls Church, Virginia
2 Loudoun County, Virginia
3 Fairfax County, Virginia
4 Hunterdon County, New Jersey
5 Howard County, Maryland
6 Los Alamos County, New Mexico
7 Douglas County, Colorado
8 Morris County, New Jersey
9 Somerset County, New Jersey
10 City of Fairfax, Virginia
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby Marc_C » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:24 pm

soulskier wrote:I would suspect the Census and/or Forbes use a different criteria than the IRS when measuring wealth.

Nope. Annual gross income is used by both.
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby Geoff » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:29 pm

I'm kind of surprised that Douglas County, Co ranks that high. I didn't realize that metro-Denver had that many high-paying jobs.
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Re: Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby socal » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:12 pm

Marc_C wrote:
soulskier wrote:I would suspect the Census and/or Forbes use a different criteria than the IRS when measuring wealth.

Nope. Annual gross income is used by both.


Forbes uses median income. Wikipedia says Teton county is the highest by per capita as of 2009 Here is their source http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/0 ... _high.html
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby Tony Crocker » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:24 pm

Bridger Bowl and Bogus Basin are well known and successful nonprofit ski areas. We got a book on the history of Bogus Basin on the NASJA trip there. They had some struggling periods but have been in decent shape since they started the discount season pass program in 1998. But they are the only super close partial day/night ski area to a 500K metro area in Boise. Snow King in a resort town with an iconic ski area in the same neighborhood looks like a more challenging proposition.

In that last list I presume "New York" at #2 means Manhattan. Each borough is considered its own county in NYC, right?
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Postby Mike Bernstein » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:32 am

Tony Crocker wrote:Bridger Bowl and Bogus Basin are well known and successful nonprofit ski areas. We got a book on the history of Bogus Basin on the NASJA trip there. They had some struggling periods but have been in decent shape since they started the discount season pass program in 1998. But they are the only super close partial day/night ski area to a 500K metro area in Boise. Snow King in a resort town with an iconic ski area in the same neighborhood looks like a more challenging proposition.

In that last list I presume "New York" at #2 means Manhattan. Each borough is considered its own county in NYC, right?

Correct - Manhattan is technically New York County. Queens is Queens County. Brooklyn is Kings County (go figure). I forget what the Bronx and Staten Island (Richmond County?) are, not that they'd show up on one of these lists.
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby jamesdeluxe » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:42 am

I'm blanking... other than MRG, Magic, and some very small club hills in NYS (Holimont, Cazenovia, Skaneateles), which other mountains in the East are not-for-profit? Aren't there a couple in Maine?
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby EMSC » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:04 am

Geoff wrote:I'm kind of surprised that Douglas County, Co ranks that high. I didn't realize that metro-Denver had that many high-paying jobs.


Douglas is south of metro Denver. It basically splits Denver metro and Colo Springs metro which makes it only moderately large in population (less than 300K). Though basically every person commutes to one of the two metro's for their jobs.


jamesdeluxe wrote:I'm blanking... other than MRG, Magic, and some very small club hills in NYS (Holimont, Cazenovia, Skaneateles), which other mountains in the East are not-for-profit? Aren't there a couple in Maine?


Don't forget Brantling ( :lol: ), Hunt Hollow, and Tupper Lake (at least for the short term). I'm not sure of the status for Mc Cauley Mtn... could be town run, or non-profit, or even privately owned. I'm sure I'm still missing a few in NYS. What was the Harvey find in the capital region?
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby berkshireskier » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:13 am

I may be missing something here, but what is the advantage of a ski area becoming a "not-for-profit" entity? if, as the article on Snow King mentions, the ski area is losing $500,000 per year on a cash flow basis, becoming a "not-for-profit" will not magically make that loss disappear. Usually, entities want to become a "non-profit" (typically under section 501(c)(3) of the IRC) so that donors to the entity can get a tax deduction for their donation but I don't believe that a ski area would qualify under this code section as a "charitable" entity.
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby EMSC » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:57 am

berkshireskier wrote:I may be missing something here, but what is the advantage of a ski area becoming a "not-for-profit" entity? if, as the article on Snow King mentions, the ski area is losing $500,000 per year on a cash flow basis, becoming a "not-for-profit" will not magically make that loss disappear. Usually, entities want to become a "non-profit" (typically under section 501(c)(3) of the IRC) so that donors to the entity can get a tax deduction for their donation but I don't believe that a ski area would qualify under this code section as a "charitable" entity.


Certainly not $500K worth, but you stop paying taxes on a number of things (real estate, sales taxes on things you purchase, corp income taxes, etc...). You usually can entice volunteerism for quite a number of things to reduce operating costs as well.
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Re: Not-For-Profit: Snow King, WY

Postby soulskier » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:05 am

berkshireskier wrote:I may be missing something here, but what is the advantage of a ski area becoming a "not-for-profit" entity? if, as the article on Snow King mentions, the ski area is losing $500,000 per year on a cash flow basis, becoming a "not-for-profit" will not magically make that loss disappear. Usually, entities want to become a "non-profit" (typically under section 501(c)(3) of the IRC) so that donors to the entity can get a tax deduction for their donation but I don't believe that a ski area would qualify under this code section as a "charitable" entity.


Here's a relevant article to this thread.

http://www.mrablog.com/will-non-profits ... reg-seitz/
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