One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

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One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Patrick » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:09 pm

I know there are a bunch of skeptics in the peanut gallery, but news about Manitoba mountain is spreading around in the skiing community. The dream that soulskier presented here is getting closer. :mrgreen:

http://live.tetongravity.com/_News-Alas ... 75233.html
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Tony Crocker » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:42 pm

Thanks to Patrick for the informative link. The pictures and narrative show that the 1,000 acres within the proposed ski area boundary are moderately pitched and should not require much avalanche control. The "get after it" steeps fall away from the spine at the top of the mountain and much of it requires only a modest amount of hiking. A Silverton-style guiding system is one option mentioned and would probably be a good idea to access this terrain.

However, only a Nordic center is in the cards soon. "No lift-assisted shredding will go down for several years."
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Patrick » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:28 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:However, only a Nordic center is in the cards soon. "No lift-assisted shredding will go down for several years."

I saw another 2-3 years mentioned. :brick:
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Admin » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:52 pm

Patrick wrote:
Tony Crocker wrote:However, only a Nordic center is in the cards soon. "No lift-assisted shredding will go down for several years."

I saw another 2-3 years mentioned. :brick:


Which is "several."
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Patrick » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:14 pm

Admin wrote:
Patrick wrote:
Tony Crocker wrote:However, only a Nordic center is in the cards soon. "No lift-assisted shredding will go down for several years."

I saw another 2-3 years mentioned. :brick:


Which is "several."


I don't recall putting a brick in my post?

Yes, it is several...but several it could also be 5-8 years. That is why I mentioned it.
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Tony Crocker » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:39 am

I put the sentence in quotes because it was directly from Patrick's source. So "several years" is the source's term, not mine.

In some respects I was encouraged by the article.
1) MRA will not have to spend big bucks on avy control. The core 1,000 acres is not exposed and they can let the extreme sidecountry settle before letting anyone ski it, similar to what CPG or most cat/heli operators would do. And it is a maritime snowpack, so probably does not need as much active preparation as Silverton.
2) While Silvertip Peak may be a 1-2 hour hike, it's obvious from the pictures that a lot of the extreme terrain is quite accessible from the top lift within 10-15 minutes.

The key issue remains whether Manitoba can get enough business from the locals to support lift served operations. And where the $ will come from to build the lifts. I'd vote for pomas or T-bars, but if rope tows are much cheaper and can get the area off the ground sooner, so be it.
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Patrick » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:06 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:The key issue remains whether Manitoba can get enough business from the locals to support lift served operations. And where the $ will come from to build the lifts. I'd vote for pomas or T-bars, but if rope tows are much cheaper and can get the area off the ground sooner, so be it.


That is the question. On the same scale maybe, how much cash due to the NZ Club fields need to operate. When it appends, I'll definitely go check it out. There is an Alaskan ski safari in the cards.
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Geoff » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:28 pm

Patrick wrote:
Tony Crocker wrote:The key issue remains whether Manitoba can get enough business from the locals to support lift served operations. And where the $ will come from to build the lifts. I'd vote for pomas or T-bars, but if rope tows are much cheaper and can get the area off the ground sooner, so be it.


That is the question. On the same scale maybe, how much cash due to the NZ Club fields need to operate. When it appends, I'll definitely go check it out. There is an Alaskan ski safari in the cards.


The NZ Club fields have a significant city nearby (Christchurch is pushing 400,000) and have totally different liability laws.
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Patrick » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:51 pm

Geoff wrote:The NZ Club fields have a significant city nearby (Christchurch is pushing 400,000) and have totally different liability laws.


First off, i'm not a lawyer and wouldn't know much about the legal differences and liabilities between the two. However in terms of geography:

1) Anchorage is slightly bigger than Christchurch in term of population.
2) Travel time would be about the same (AN-Mamitoba vs CH-NZ Clubfields).
3) NZ has a multitudes of club fields + ski areas within a long drive from Christchurch. Alaska has very little.
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Geoff » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:09 pm

Patrick wrote:
Geoff wrote:The NZ Club fields have a significant city nearby (Christchurch is pushing 400,000) and have totally different liability laws.


First off, i'm not a lawyer and wouldn't know much about the legal differences and liabilities between the two. However in terms of geography:

1) Anchorage is slightly bigger than Christchurch in term of population.
2) Travel time would be about the same (AN-Mamitoba vs CH-NZ Clubfields).
3) NZ has a multitudes of club fields + ski areas within a long drive from Christchurch. Alaska has very little.


I thought Ancorage, Alaska only had a population of around 275,000? Christchurch is more like 400,000.
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Patrick » Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:05 pm

Geoff wrote:I thought Ancorage, Alaska only had a population of around 275,000? Christchurch is more like 400,000.


Anchorage: 374,553 residents within the Metropolitan Statistical Area in 2010

348,435 people usually live in Christchurch City. NZ Stats census 2006 (the latest didn't happen due to the earthquake).
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Tony Crocker » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:51 pm

Canterbury, the province containing Christchurch and most of the club fields, has half of the South Island's 1 million population. Drive distance is shorter in NZ. My gut feeling is that NZ culture is avid for adventure sports including skiing and snowboarding while Alaskans are more into hunting and snowmobiling. The interested population base in Canterbury is definitely bigger than Anchorage's IMHO but perhaps only 1.5 or 2x bigger. The raw population numbers say Manitoba should find adequate local support. It's certainly bigger than the local population in those Montana towns q visits every year. What makes me nervous is how empty Alyeska has been most of the days I've skied there.
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Geoff » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:10 am

Patrick wrote:
Geoff wrote:I thought Ancorage, Alaska only had a population of around 275,000? Christchurch is more like 400,000.


Anchorage: 374,553 residents within the Metropolitan Statistical Area in 2010

348,435 people usually live in Christchurch City. NZ Stats census 2006 (the latest didn't happen due to the earthquake).


What's with the froth-at-the-mouth defense of a set of assertions that aren't correct?

I'd point out that you drive right by Aleyska to get to Manitoba. From Christchurch, you have roughly the same drive time to get to the lift-serviced resort at Mount Hutt as you do to Cragieburn. It's an hour and change from downtown.

When you Google Aleyska for skier visits, it appears to be somewhere between 135,000 and 150,000. The place gets 700+ inches of snow. For most, it will be tough to justify doubling the drive time when you are going right past a ski area that is underutilized. I don't see how you can cover your expenses off the kind of skier visits Manitoba is likely to receive unless you do all the things the MRA loathes and turn it into a deluxe lift-serviced cat/heli-skiing substitute for the affluent.
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby flyover » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:10 am

+1

I posted this hypothetical last year in the "Introducing MRA" thread (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9056&start=15) after Tony prematurely spilled the beans on MRA's tentative plans and then yanked his post:

"Let's just say you could fly to a distant (sometimes expensive-to-fly-to), but not-insanely-remote, small city and drive a short distance before you arrive at a ski area with 2500 vert, 1,500+ acres of largely high-alpine skiing with respectable terrain features, an average annual snowfall of more than 600 inches of "maritime" snow, a skier density that is often relatively low compared to similar North-American resorts, and lift tickets that can be bought at the window for approximately $60. Do you stop and ski there, or do you double or triple your drive time to ski the MRA-style (Soulskier has asked us to think Silverton) area further down the road?"

I think the question is almost equally valid when applied to Anchorage-area skiers.
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Re: One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

Postby Geoff » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:58 pm

flyover wrote:"Let's just say you could fly to a distant (sometimes expensive-to-fly-to), but not-insanely-remote, small city and drive a short distance before you arrive at a ski area with 2500 vert, 1,500+ acres of largely high-alpine skiing with respectable terrain features, an average annual snowfall of more than 600 inches of "maritime" snow, a skier density that is often relatively low compared to similar North-American resorts, and lift tickets that can be bought at the window for approximately $60. Do you stop and ski there, or do you double or triple your drive time to ski the MRA-style (Soulskier has asked us to think Silverton) area further down the road?"

I think the question is almost equally valid when applied to Anchorage-area skiers.


Since this almost perfectly captures Anchorage and Aleyaska (1000-ish acres instead of 1500+ and slightly more of that maritime snow), what city were you talking about?
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