Whiteface Report 2/18

Hello everyone, we just got back from a family vacation in LP and here's my take on Whiteface and Lake Placid:

1. My wife is an olympic bronze medalist and trained many months/yrs in LP . We chose LP because Karen wanted to visit friends and show me and our 3.5 year old son her old stomping grounds. We stayed at Art Devlins, which was excellent. Very clean and large rooms,a nice TV. The only downfall was that sound travels very easily through the walls. I don't know if the walls lack insulation or if the TV in the adjoining room abutted ours. Little Bryan loved to jump from bed to bed like the ski jumping video we saw!

2. We had three COLD days with no wind.

3. The drive SUCKS from Plytmouth, Mass. (6 hrs) to get there and (8 hrs) to get home in the snow. White knuckled the whole way with the family in the car. We tried to beat the storm but we didn't beat a single flake.

4. We ate at Fireside (great steak at an honest price ), Lisa "G's" for wings (the best we ever had, awesome ), HOJO's for old time sake (F'ing sucked :-& :-& :-& ), Starbucks for all coffee. Did I mention Lisa G's was amazing! =P~ =P~ =P~

5. Lake Placid itself is a very charming and cozy place. We couldn't believe how small it is. The traffic must of been brutal in 1980. It was amazing to visit the rink where they beat USSR. I started Bryan on a U-S-A chant, I couldn't resist. We took a twirl on the oval. Did they have the opening ceremonies there or was it at the equestrian field about 2 miles before town. There is a torch holder there, but maybe that was for the 1932 olympics.

6. Whiteface is a real mountain. I'm a solid expert (single diamond) and this mountain gave me a bit of a scare for the first time since I skied MRG. There is some gnarly terrain here. I don't remember the names, but skylight was great, but a bit scary at first. Lookout mountain looks WICKED, very steep and narrow looking from the summit chair. They're going to need a lot of snow to open those. The Slides look very intimidating. Lot of ledge with little soil, runnoff must be quite a site there. I enjoyed the terrain under the double/Little Whiteface. A nice consistent steep pitch to link some quick turns. I'm used to Cannon and Wildcat and Whiteface is 5x the mountain in terms of difficulty and terrain. I was quickly humbled. I still love the charm of Wildcat. The difficulty level at Wildcat suits me better than Whiteface. To all that ski Whiteface and call it there home, it is a great mountain, difficult mountain and a special place.

Cheers, John.

In connection with some other thread I looked up Whiteface's trail map online and noted the low 3-1 length-to-vertical chair ratios. That is quite rare in the East and signifies steep terrain in anybody's book. No comment on snow conditions? Hard snow makes steep more intimidating. The best Whiteface reports I read on FTO are in spring when the Slides are open and softened up.

Truer words have ne'er been spoken:

Tony Crocker":ewk2h6h8 said:

Hard snow makes steep more intimidating.

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Nice report.

Yes inquiring minds want to know:

How was the snow?

And what was the bronze in?

The best Whiteface reports I read on FTO are in spring

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Except when Mr. Gnar is in town 8)

Sorry about not mentioning the snow conditions. They were very good and surprisingly soft. They were blowing snow like crazy on skylight and others off the summit quad. I spoke to several locals in LP proper and they said conditions were amazing before last weeks rain devasted the area. I thought the powers to be did a great job getting the mountain back in order for vacation week. It didn't get skied off like I thought it would. I think there are so many differtent ways down that it distributes the crowds quite nicely. Karen won a broze in short track speed skating in 1994 in Lilihammer, Norway. John.

Next time you should get lunch at the brown dog! It is a great sandwich wine bar. The hot chocolate is fabulous.

Tony Crocker":3s0ijevd said:

In connection with some other thread I looked up Whiteface's trail map online and noted the low 3-1 length-to-vertical chair ratios. That is quite rare in the East and signifies steep terrain in anybody's book.

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Tony, this mountain is why I think some western acreage statistics are way off.

In that same thread I recall the easterners admitted that Whiteface did not have much in the way of skiable trees between the trails. So trail acreage is fair for Whiteface, except that I would scale it up for steepness.

Tony Crocker":65hb6k6p said:

In that same thread I recall the easterners admitted that Whiteface did not have much in the way of skiable trees between the trails. So trail acreage is fair for Whiteface, except that I would scale it up for steepness.

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However, the new tree area they just built is very large.

However, the new tree area they just built is very large.

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From the summer construction pics I still question how much of that acreage is skiable. And if so, how often?

Tony Crocker":2mlvqvsg said:

From the summer construction pics I still question how much of that acreage is skiable. And if so, how often?

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From what I saw they are just as skiable as Jay's or Bolton's. Of course, by Tony's standards that may not be skiable. :wink: :wink:



We need a tongue in cheek emotocon.

It pains me to even partially agree with Tony, but the fact that only the Wilmington Trail (the one with snowmaking) is open on Lookout in the middle of February is disquieting. We've said it a hundred different ways; Whiteface is a very capricious mountain.

jamesdeluxe":3u9plhyz said:

It pains me to even partially agree with Tony, but the fact that only the Wilmington Trail (the one with snowmaking) is open on Lookout in the middle of February is disquieting. We've said it a hundred different ways; Whiteface is a very capricious mountain.

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Lookout Mountain is far from complete, despite what is shown on the trail map. They barely got the Wilmington Trail open in time for the season.

1) Hoyt's High was cut but was never finished. There are still tree cuttings from two summers ago on that trail, and some large boulders. They need to clean it up during the off season.

2) Sugar Valley Glades has a LOT of work that needs to be done before it is ready. While it is relatively spacious in there compared with other forests on the mountain, there is a lot of undergrowth that needs to be cleared.

From what I saw they are just as skiable as Jay's or Bolton's.

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Those places get ~300 inches while Whiteface gets <200. Thus the how often question. I suspect the "40-inch rule" of the Vermont woods is not attained consistently at Whiteface.

Tony Crocker":1lk7mtbr said:

From what I saw they are just as skiable as Jay's or Bolton's.

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Those places get ~300 inches while Whiteface gets <200. Thus the how often question. I suspect the "40-inch rule" of the Vermont woods is not attained consistently at Whiteface.

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Snow depth is not the limiting issue in these glades. It is an abundance of brush and deadfall... none of which has been cleared. The glades only exist on the map at this point. Once cleared, they will open with similar regularity as the other glades on the hill.

Having spent many years skiing (and hiking) Whiteface and the High Peaks, a 40 inch base is easily and consistently attained at 4000' (the elevation of the mansfield stake). Snow depths are listed as 5-6 feet at 4000ft: http://lakeplacid.com/flash/whattodo/z-xcountry.htm

The glades at gore are frequented by Harvey on this forum almost every weekend it seems. Whiteface generally gets about the same amount of snow if not more than Gore. Whiteface's icy conditions often exist because of wind, however, the woods are protected from the wind. I see no reason why whiteface's new glades would be any less skiable than gore's.

Snow depth is not the limiting issue in these glades. It is an abundance of brush and deadfall

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Obviously it's the combination. Perhaps 60 inches is needed to bury the brush and deadfall, as at Mt. Waterman. As a much steeper than average eastern ski mountain, Whiteface rates to need more cover to make natural terrain skiable. But any clearing they could do would help.

Perhaps I have been over simplifying.

One of the obstacles preventing the glade from opening this season is accessibility. The forest immediately alongside The Wilmington Trail is more dense. I described it as "brush and deadfall". Bad word choices on my part. It is a mixture of hobblebush and younger trees filling in the forest floor between the widely spaced hardwoods. No northeast snowpack could cover it up. The forest eventually becomes much more open. Feeder trails need to be established and/or the areas nearest to The Wilmington Trail need to be thinned out.

Why is accessibility so important?

In NY state, ski areas are liable for any rescues within their boundary. Considering that access to the glade is currently undefined and the perimeter of the glade is undefined (from the skier's perspective), how exactly is ski patrol supposed to sweep this glade in it's current state?

To reiterate, base depths are not the issue.