Haystack, VT May Reopen

Yellowstone Club got into trouble because the entrepreneur in charge of it got delusional and started spending the members $ plus $300 million borrowed from Credit Suisse on unrelated projects.

Nonetheless I fail to see why anyone would want to spend $650K on real estate attached to an third-tier eastern ski mountain. Perhaps Patrick can weigh in on the private ski areas in Ontario. My impression is that they are molehills but quite affordable.
 
Tony Crocker":1untvn40 said:
Nonetheless I fail to see why anyone would want to spend $650K on real estate attached to an third-tier eastern ski mountain. Perhaps Patrick can weigh in on the private ski areas in Ontario. My impression is that they are molehills but quite affordable.
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Ontario and molehills. Calabogie Peaks 75 minutes from Ottawa says it has the greatest vertical of Ontario at 230m(?).
For reference among the closest hills from Ottawa which are all in Quebec, Edelweiss is at 200m, Fortune at 189m, Ste-Marie 381m 70 minutes north in Quebec. For the record, I prefer the terrain at Calabogie.

Haystack and Ontario Private Ski club. I don't know the dynamic behind it.

Ontario Private Ski Club in term of vertical and quality of terrain aren't that far off the best of the provinces. Ontario Private Club are all within daytrip distance from Toronto on the Niagara Escarpment. Either just West or North around Collingwood. Collingwood is also very touristy, many ski areas, some of them private, similar to St-Sauveur Valley (doesn't have any private sc), a lot of second homes, cash, etc. One advantage over the Laurentians is the open water and the beautiful beaches on Georgian Bay.

I can see why its working for Ontario, there are like Golf Club. My understanding is that you cannot ski at one of the privates unless you are invited. I googled a few....I wouldn't call it affordable considering what the type of terrain it is. A few seem pretty small. $12,000 to become a member at this one.

http://www.caledonskiclub.on.ca/index.c ... D089EFAF68

$72 at this one...I've seen this one in Summer. Looks great. Pretty restrictive and you have to know someone.

http://www.oslerbluff.com/welcome-guests.aspx

Here is another one...look at the membership fees (I couldn't find it for Osler Bluff)

http://www.mansfieldskiclub.com/joinman ... sfield.php

I know there are a few others, but these 3 give you a good clue.

I've never been to Haystack, although I have a brochure scanned for a future Monday post on Ski Mad World. I would think that the dynamic might be different. How far is Haystack terrain compare to the average Vermont ski area? There are other ski options unlike Southern Ontario is hightly populated and far from any really great skiing (not saying that Blue Mtn isn't great, but its like a MSS on steroids.
 
I don't think I'm out of line is saying that Vermont is far superior to southern Ontario. So in Ontario private ski area = public ski area, while in Vermont private Haystack <<< better public ski areas. And the price of admission is a whole lot higher.
 
Tony Crocker":wv3nht5d said:
I don't think I'm out of line is saying that Vermont is far superior to southern Ontario. So in Ontario private ski area = public ski area, while in Vermont private Haystack <<< better public ski areas. And the price of admission is a whole lot higher.
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Pretty much what I was saying. I didn't want to judge where Haystack would fall compare to the neighbouring areas in Vermont. Would it be so much less in quality (snow/terrain/challenge) than elsewhere in the state.

Vermont or Quebec skiing is always above Ontario.

Ontario is way better than Manitoba skiing (province only, not mountain). 8)
 
Tony Crocker":24s847jk said:
I don't think I'm out of line is saying that Vermont is far superior to southern Ontario. So in Ontario private ski area = public ski area, while in Vermont private Haystack <<< better public ski areas. And the price of admission is a whole lot higher.
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This is 100% correct.

The competition from far superior hills proximate to Haytstack is unlike anything in Ontario. I've skied Haystack and the product quality simply can't justify the price tag they are asking, IMO. Some decent cruising, but the vertical isn't that consistent and it skies a lot shorter than the reported vertical. When you have places like Mt. Snow, Bromley, Stratton, and Okemo under an hour away, I don't know how it can work.
 
Mike Bernstein":x5hjfhxy said:
Tony Crocker":x5hjfhxy said:
I don't think I'm out of line is saying that Vermont is far superior to southern Ontario. So in Ontario private ski area = public ski area, while in Vermont private Haystack <<< better public ski areas. And the price of admission is a whole lot higher.
Click to expand...
This is 100% correct.

The competition from far superior hills proximate to Haytstack is unlike anything in Ontario. I've skied Haystack and the product quality simply can't justify the price tag they are asking, IMO. Some decent cruising, but the vertical isn't that consistent and it skies a lot shorter than the reported vertical. When you have places like Mt. Snow, Bromley, Stratton, and Okemo under an hour away, I don't know how it can work.
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It will work just about as well as Round Top / Bear Creek Mountain Club. You'll have some captive property owners who prop the thing up every time it emerges from bankruptcy while everybody else drives the 15 minutes to Okemo or Killington.

The problem with family-oriented private small hills next to big resorts is that the kids grow up and no longer want to bother with the mole hill. The only market for the product is rich beginner-intermediates with young families and most of those will want to dump their property & membership by the time their kids hit 15. Bear Creek has an even worse problem since Killington is using Pico as their learn-to-ski and discount skiing mountain. You can't even take advantage of the learn-to-ski ticket & lesson market that most little places live off so it's not viable as a public ski area.
 
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