Question about Spring Aspects and Corn

[Marc_C]

Nice to see that the Wasatch front got some new snow.

Alta is reporting 10" so far, but it looks like things are winding down. I do not know the density of the new stuff, but looking at the temps and water, it would suggest being reasonably light.

[Admin]

We just pulled into our (rented) condo in PC and we're here through at least Wednesday, possibly Friday if we feel like getting more skiing in. Nice to see that the Wasatch front got some new snow.

Welcome to Oooootah. I was at Solitude today, and I'm about to start working on my post from the day with a whole bunch o'photos. Here's the Reader's Digest version:

1) Up to about 8" of new I'd guess, give or take. Much more in places like Summit than in others like Honeycomb. Not nearly dense enough.
2) The worst road conditions I've ever experienced here while driving up this morning, bar none.

Porn, porn, porn...that's all you guys ever talk about...Oh Corn...well, er ah never mind.

Signed,

Emily Litella

[Tony Crocker]

Oddly enough the best corn I ever had was at snowbasin in late February

I've seen that too. There's a lot of terrain over there on Strawberry that doesn't get much skier traffic. But if the corn is good in February I think the odds are likely against it in April, probably not enough overnight freezing most of the time.

Note that there's nothing there whatsoever about "consolidation." That word appears nowhere on the entire page linked to by Marc_C. It's the repeated freezing and thawing that creates the granules that constitute corn

Semantics. Corn is generally agreed to be an optimally softened surface of a couple of inches over a supportable base. A typical LCC dump of 18 inches or so is going to take several days of melt/freeze to settle into that supportable base. I choose to call that consolidation. And if the snow has been hammered/compacted by wind as is common at Mammoth, Bachelor or Las Lenas you might get that corn in just a couple of days of melt/freeze.

Yes, the surface of a groomer can become true corn if it's somehow left undisturbed for a few days

No, it only has to be undisturbed during the hours it's softening, as evidenced by those roped off race courses.

[Marc_C]

Oddly enough the best corn I ever had was at snowbasin in late February

I've seen that too. There's a lot of terrain over there on Strawberry that doesn't get much skier traffic. But if the corn is good in February I think the odds are likely against it in April, probably not enough overnight freezing most of the time.

Note that there's nothing there whatsoever about "consolidation." That word appears nowhere on the entire page linked to by Marc_C. It's the repeated freezing and thawing that creates the granules that constitute corn

Semantics. Corn is generally agreed to be an optimally softened surface of a couple of inches over a supportable base. A typical LCC dump of 18 inches or so is going to take several days of melt/freeze to settle into that supportable base. I choose to call that consolidation. And if the snow has been hammered/compacted by wind as is common at Mammoth, Bachelor or Las Lenas you might get that corn in just a couple of days of melt/freeze.

Yes, the surface of a groomer can become true corn if it's somehow left undisturbed for a few days

No, it only has to be undisturbed during the hours it's softening, as evidenced by those roped off race courses.

It's not semantics. There is so much incorrect assumption in the above that it belies a basic misunderstanding of corn and its formation.

First off is not realizing that we can have spring-like days in almost any month of the winter season. During the massive inversion of 2002-03, we had great corn for 22 consecutive days in January. We went back to feet of powder in February and back to great corn again in April.

Secondly, corn is strictly the shape and size of the snow - it has absolutely nothing to do with the softened surface and supportable base. Even when it turns to bottomless sand after too much sun, it's still corn.

More later.

[Marc_C]

Wow. It sounds like y'all are searching for unicorns, the way you talk about corn and how elusive it is!
I was skiing corn all-week-long last week at Deer Valley.

It's elusive in the sense that:
- mid winter in LCC, according to Tony, there's something like a 70% probability that in a given week we'll receive 6" of powder or more at least once*. The probability of good corn in a normal April is not as high because....
- we frequently get enough storms in April that the corn cycle needs to constantly restart
- LCC gets more snow more frequently than DV

From Saturday, 4/7 avi bulletin:

The little storm on Friday exceeded expectations in some areas. Totals were 11 inches at Alta, 7 at Brighton, 10 at Spruces Campground, 2 to 8 along the Park City Ridgeline and the poor folks over at Deer Valley got skunked with zero new snow.

[Evren]

the poor folks over at Deer Valley got skunked with zero new snow.

Correction, "the recent spate of corn and more corn continues unabated over at Deer Valley".

[Marc_C]

the poor folks over at Deer Valley got skunked with zero new snow.

Correction to the correction: the Utah Avalanche Center, not me, wrote "the poor folks over at Deer Valley got skunked with zero new snow."

Correction, "the recent spate of corn and more corn continues unabated over at Deer Valley".

Really? In Ontario Bowl? Lady Morgan Bowl? Mayflower Bowl?
Let's see.... Ontario has lousy coverage, Lady Morgan is cooked into excellent sludge and slop from it's aspect, and DV closed Mayflower a week ago. Oh. Right. You must mean on the groomers.

PS: Main Chute at Alta was open today. And it was powder. A foot of it.

[Evren]

Oh, I give up. Look, I never claimed DV has better snow than Alta. Heck, I got an Alta gold pass for that very same reason. Can't we all just be friends? Please?

[Marc_C]

Can't we all just be friends? Please?

Slagging and barroom banter is part of the deal when you get an FTO forum account!

[Tony Crocker]

Heck, I got an Alta gold pass for that very same reason.

Yes, and late season is when you should be using it a lot. Spring is very slushy on the Wasatch back areas by my experience.

[Evren]

Can't we all just be friends? Please?

Slagging and barroom banter is part of the deal when you get an FTO forum account!

Dude, I know. And you seem to relish it more than anyone. Yesterday was a good day so I thought I'd hand you a gimme. But if you're gonna do victory laps over it...

And overall, each of the 10 resorts in the area has something different to offer; this plus varied preferences mean they all stay in business. And thank god for that. But if anyone wants to claim that Wasatch back is an inferior experience or "for the tourists" -- shorthand for inferior... we can play message-board-hero all day long and bore everyone else.

[Marc_C]

Can't we all just be friends? Please?

Slagging and barroom banter is part of the deal when you get an FTO forum account!

Dude, I know. And you seem to relish it more than anyone. Yesterday was a good day so I thought I'd hand you a gimme. But if you're gonna do victory laps over it...

Obviously you've never seen/heard Admin when he's at the top of his game. And when Crocker is in town, it makes the rest of us seem like we're handing out chocolates and roses.
You got off light, buddy!

But if it still hurts, you can use this:

[Evren]

Okay that was pretty funny.
Let's leave it to the great arbiter in the sky as to who if anyone got butthurt.
Being serious for a moment: I do enjoy sparring with you back-and-forth. I will, however, submit the following for your consideration:
You seem disinclined to concede a point, like, ever. And that takes away from the enjoyment. My earlier post was a test of sorts. You'll almost never get anyone on the intertubes to say "I give up... can we be friends? please?" and instead of cherishing that trophy, you had to make a remark along the lines of "Yeah baby, this is how the game is played" (at least, that is how I read it). That tells me you never let go.
Secondly, you seem to be all about the sparring. Admin and Tony spar but that's usually a sidebar.
Anyhoo, I won't change a grown man and there's room in a message board for all sorts. So, see you at the next
PS Now that I think about it, you did make a positive comment to one of my posts recently. And it was appreciated.

[EMSC]

Evren,

You just need to ask yourself: who played the part of Marc_c in the movie? Was it Jack Lemmon or Walter Matthau.

[baldyskier]

Evren,

You just need to ask yourself: who played the part of Marc_c in the movie? Was it Jack Lemmon or Walter Matthau.

lol. Maybe FTO Liftlines forums are turning into "Curmudgeon's Corner".