Utah Alcohol Regulations

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Utah Alcohol Regulations

Postby Marc_C » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:16 am

jojo_obrien wrote:and i also like booze......... which is why i've schlepped cases of contraband from Cali up here ... http://fox13now.com/2013/12/06/utah-ran ... -drinking/

Curious as to what kind of contraband. Makes sense for some types, not so much for others.
Regarding that Time piece referenced in the Faux News report - one small paragraph, 3 poorly worded statements that help convey misconceptions.

Time wrote:Many of the restrictive drinking laws around the country derive from a religious skepticism of alcohol, and Utah’s strong religious culture has helped motivate the passage of sundry drinking restrictions.

Certainly true. But also certainly true in many other states as well - some with far more restrictive laws, like entirely dry counties. So to single out Utah is a bit disingenuous.

Time wrote:Only beer with less than 3.2% alcohol by weight can be sold in grocery and convenience stores or on tap.

Most people don't realize that in Utah the alcohol content of beer is measured by weight. In the rest of the country it's done by volume. So when folks hear "3.2%" they compare that to nominal 5% by volume of Bud and think it's very weak and "watered down".
Facts:
3.2% by weight = 4% by volume
Guinness on tap in Ireland is 3.3% by weight
If you want the same amount of alcohol that you get in 12oz of PBR (which is about 5.1% by vol)from elsewhere in a Utah beer, you would need to consume an extra 0.85 oz of the Utah beer - a few drops more than half a shot.
In Colorado for example, beer sold in locations other than a liquor store must be no more than 3.2% alcohol by volume, not weight like in Utah. IOW, Colorado convenience store beer has significantly less alcohol than Utah beer.

Time wrote:Like a strong drink? You’re out of luck in Utah, as cocktails can only contain 1.5 ounces of a primary liquor,

Look in any bartenders recipe book and you'll see that the majority of cocktails are based on one shot (aka jigger) of primary liquor - a shot is 1.5 ounces. What Time meant was do you like a large drink. It's true, ours cannot be those huge things you get in Vegas that are the equivalent of 2 or 3 normal cocktails, but they certainly can be just as strong. Our drinks are also metered by a device, meaning no pouring by eye by the bartender. This actually helps bars maintain their costs and profits.


Time wrote:... while alcohol can’t be purchased in restaurants without food.

That's correct, but that refers to restaurants. Bars with a full liquor license do not have that restriction, nor do venues with a tavern (beer and wine only) license. But realistically, who really goes to a restaurant just to get a drink? And many restaurants have a specific bar area where there is no food requirement. Again, a true but somewhat misleading statement.

I'll be the first to champion softening our laws and also first to admit that we do indeed have many confusing and arbitrary regulations (eg: the number of different kind of licenses), but that Time paragraph just helps perpetuate the stereotypical misconceptions. If people think it's restrictive now, they would have been shocked what things were like pre-Olympics when I moved here in 2000. Of course I moved from a state where selling beer for off-premise consumption was illegal after 8pm. Grocery stores had a lockable canvas cover or cage or something that they pulled over the beer shelf at 8pm. That was Connecticut. I was also used to a ski state where when I started skiing, it was illegal to have more than one alcoholic beverage in front of you at a time, so things like a shot and a beer weren't available. If you had a beer and ordered a shot, the bartender would take away your beer and keep it behind the bar until you finished your shot. That was Vermont. Fortunately that restriction was eliminated sometime in the mid/late 90's. The point is, there are equally whacked restrictions in other states. Yes, we probably do have more of them, but many affect the bar and restaurant owners far more than the customer.

[Why am I writing about drinking laws on an early season powder morning? I no longer find skiing in single digits or, especially, negative temperatures appealing or enjoyable.]

[Admin: maybe we can make this post sticky or put it in a FAQ or something since the same stuff comes up every winter.]
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Re: Alta

Postby jojo_obrien » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:55 pm

i simply dont like paying upwards of 40% markup at state liquor stores for booze...........

i'm sure its loosened from the days when membership was required but after spending time in places like denver, portland, anchorage, the beer scene here is heavily lacking..............obviously we're here for the pow, not the brew............

can't even taste a beer at a brewery here w/o ordering a meal???? where else is the world is that the norm???????
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Re: Alta

Postby Admin » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:00 pm

jojo_obrien wrote:i simply dont like paying upwards of 40% markup at state liquor stores for booze...........


It's actually not that horrific. I used to buy stuff in Evanston, Wyo., but there's no true advantage there anymore. In fact, when I went up to Jackson this summer I stopped in Evanston and the whiskey I buy actually cost more there than it does in Utah.

Now you can get some steals in Vegas if you're passing through, but hey, that's Vegas.

jojo_obrien wrote:can't even taste a beer at a brewery here w/o ordering a meal???? where else is the world is that the norm???????


That varies from establishment to establishment, depending upon what kind of license they have. For example, if you venture upstairs in GMD the bar up there has a tavern license -- no food purchase required. Same for anyplace with a bar license. The need to order food applies only to a place with a restaurant license.

If the brewery you're referring to forces you to buy food, then they were either being too cheap or short-sighted, or there was a lack of available licenses at the time, to establish a separate part of the premise with a separate bar or tavern license. Many places here actually would rather have a restaurant license so that they can make money on food. Recall that unlike most states we don't have a wholesale liquor market. Instead, establishments buy their liquor from the state authority at the same price that you and I pay, so there's not the monumental profit to be made by marking up hard liquor by 900% as there is in most other states.
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Re: Alta

Postby Admin » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:14 pm

Marc_C wrote:[Admin: maybe we can make this post sticky or put it in a FAQ or something since the same stuff comes up every winter.]


No way to make a post a sticky, only a topic. If you wish to copy/paste to a new thread I'll happily sticky it. Or the madman moderator Crocker may just split it. :wink:
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Re: Alta

Postby Marc_C » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:35 pm

Admin wrote:
jojo_obrien wrote:i simply dont like paying upwards of 40% markup at state liquor stores for booze...........


It's actually not that horrific. I used to buy stuff in Evanston, Wyo., but there's no true advantage there anymore. In fact, when I went up to Jackson this summer I stopped in Evanston and the whiskey I buy actually cost more there than it does in Utah.


Remember that nationwide, beer, wine, and spirits have distinctly different tax structures and mark-ups. In Utah, spirits have a mandated 67% mark-up over producer wholesale prices. In the non-control states there is a mandated three tier distribution system, where the producer sells to a distributor who sells to a retailer who sells to a consumer. This was a requirement of the 21st amendment ending prohibition. There is a mark-up at each one of those steps which typically results in - guess what - about a 65%-80% markup over wholesale. Wines OTOH are often cheaper by a few dollars than the price quoted in Wine Spectator.

The big thing people from elsewhere forget about beer are the shipping costs of all that glass and water. That affects the price far more than the Utah ABC laws.


jojo_obrien wrote:can't even taste a beer at a brewery here w/o ordering a meal???? where else is the world is that the norm???????

Which one? And were you in the correct part of the establishment where you could order a beer without a meal? At the Wasatch Brew Pub in Park City, you need to be on the correct side of a wooden rail divider, where the tavern license is in effect, not the restaurant license.
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Re: Alta

Postby Admin » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:40 pm

Marc_C wrote:The big thing people from elsewhere forget about beer are the shipping costs of all that glass and water. That affects the price far more than the Utah ABC laws.


Which is why beer like Anchor Steam is far cheaper here than it is on the East Coast, while swill like Sam Adams costs a fortune here.
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Re: Alta

Postby kingslug » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:39 am

An the best thing about booze in Utah is..you can buy it..and drink it..what else matters...
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Re: Utah Alcohol Regulations

Postby Skrad » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:08 pm

The inversion returns and thoughts quickly turn to alcohol
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Re: Utah Alcohol Regulations

Postby Tony Crocker » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:32 am

Skrad wrote:The inversion returns

What an unusual development! Some locals have insisted nearly all the inversions occur in mid-January. :stir:
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Re: Utah Alcohol Regulations

Postby Admin » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:46 am

Tony Crocker wrote:
Skrad wrote:The inversion returns

What an unusual development! Some locals have insisted nearly all the inversions occur in mid-January. :stir:


I never said that, so please don't put words in my mouth. I said that the majority occur in January and that there's nearly always a dome of high pressure in place in mid-January.
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Re: Utah Alcohol Regulations

Postby Tony Crocker » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:53 am

that there's nearly always a dome of high pressure in place in mid-January.

50 years of Alta data conclusively demonstrate that the above sentence is :bs: . No more or less likely than any time during the ski season. A Salt Lake Valley inversion is very likely to accompany that high pressure dome when it occurs between December and early February. So no surprise we're seeing it this week, as we did during the sustained December dry spell 2 years ago. March has the same frequency of high pressure/clear skies in the mountains, but inversions are extremely rare then.
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Re: Utah Alcohol Regulations

Postby Admin » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:06 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:
that there's nearly always a dome of high pressure in place in mid-January.

50 years of Alta data conclusively demonstrate that the above sentence is :bs: .


:dead horse:

I've said before that you're entitled to your opinion, and I'll keep mine, thank you very much. All I was doing was correcting the misstatement that you were apparently attributing to me.
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Re: Utah Alcohol Regulations

Postby Marc_C » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:13 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:
Skrad wrote:The inversion returns

What an unusual development! Some locals have insisted nearly all the inversions occur in mid-January. :stir:

Reread those posts. That's not the assertion that was made. And stop cluttering up this new thread about Utah ABC laws with weather stuff.
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Re: Utah Alcohol Regulations

Postby jojo_obrien » Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:32 pm

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28138922&nid=14 ... d=queue-15

apostates sucking down liquor............repent!
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Re: Utah Alcohol Regulations

Postby Skidog » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:52 am

ZION CURTAIN REMAINS.....

Still makes so little sens to me the justification for the Zion curtain. So the theory is if the "kids" can't see the booze they won't drink any? Riiiiiiggggghhhhhttttt....If they wanna drink it they will drink it...should be more about family values than putting on blinders to the situation, which is what the curtain does....

meh in reality is doesnt effect my life, but it is weird, and visitors see that, and it perpetuates the "no alcohol" in utah myth.
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