(Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Resort and backcountry skiing and snowboarding in the western US and Canada, including our famous reader-submitted No-Bull Snow Reports.

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby Marc_C » Mon May 01, 2017 7:55 am

Tony Crocker wrote:This is a recurring problem at Snowbird as noted when I was there in 2011.
BobMc wrote:They've started maintenance on the Zoom lift

And why would they do that in April if they gave a @%& about their customers? It's not like the tram or Mammoth's gondola that needs to serve summer customers and thus requires maintenance be done in late spring.

In the spring, Snowbird really wants you to stay up high and just work Mineral and Little Cloud. But closing Gadzoom in April does seem early. IIRC, Gadzoom usually goes until at least May and if sufficient coverage low, until the end of daily operations, typically the 2nd weekend in May.
-marc
User avatar
Marc_C
 
Posts: 3172
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:32 am
Location: A Sandy place south of a Great Lake

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby Tony Crocker » Mon May 01, 2017 12:52 pm

The bottom line is that areas should have some flexibility with demand to accommodate the number of people that show up. Mammoth understands this while Snowbird seems not to care.

Obviously Snowbird is running Wilbere to get people from the parking lot over to the tram plaza where they can join the cluster&%#$ to get up the mountain on the tram. It's inexcusable to run Wilbere instead of Gadzoom.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 9790
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby BobMc » Mon May 01, 2017 7:53 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:This is a recurring problem at Snowbird as noted when I was there in 2011.
BobMc wrote:They've started maintenance on the Zoom lift

And why would they do that in April if they gave a @%& about their customers? It's not like the tram or Mammoth's gondola that needs to serve summer customers and thus requires maintenance be done in late spring.

Speaking of Mammoth, normal spring operation after Canyon/Eagle close (April 23 this year) is chairs 1,2,3,6,11 and 23 plus upper and lower gondola. This year chairs 4,5 and 10 have run every day for the past week, plus 12, 13 and 14 over the weekend.


I'm sure they would relish an email from you detailing your thoughts on their maintenance operations. I'm perfectly fine with people voting with their wallets and not frequent Snowbird due to their overwhelmingly anti-customer service postures.

I don't like standing in line any more than anyone else, but I'm not going to gnash my teeth over an accident and I'll be enjoying standing in lines till hopefully July 4th.
BobMc
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:38 pm
Location: West Jordan, UT

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby BobMc » Mon May 01, 2017 7:58 pm

BTW, Snowbird has had construction projects going on the last three years and still managed to remain open and work around the projects. :cough, cough: When did Alta close again?
BobMc
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:38 pm
Location: West Jordan, UT

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby Admin » Mon May 01, 2017 7:59 pm

So Bob, how does that Kool-Aid taste?
Image

Image
User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9969
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:32 am
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby BobMc » Mon May 01, 2017 8:20 pm

It tasted well...

cirquefirsttram.JPG
BobMc
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:38 pm
Location: West Jordan, UT

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby Admin » Mon May 01, 2017 8:26 pm

Looks good but you (intentionally?) missed my point, which is about crappy guest service. Snowbird still can't get out of their own way to get that right. Don't be a mind-numbed robot making excuses for them. They should've opened Zoom and they didn't. Screw maintenance, they had a chance to make that right to thousands who paid $80 each, not to mention the many who ponied up for a spring pass, and failed miserably.
Image

Image
User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9969
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:32 am
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby BobMc » Mon May 01, 2017 8:33 pm

No, I think you miss the point. It wasn't the end of the world, we had to stand in lift lines. There were no crying sessions, there was no protest, we stood in lines that happen now and then on powder days. 99% of the people I saw on the hill had large smiles on their faces, even while standing in those lines. If you stayed up high the lines were minimal.

Unofficial Networks posted a story today about how professional Snowbird handled the situation. The only hand wringing seems to be from people not there. I'd bet Bobby and Amy had a good day, no?
BobMc
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:38 pm
Location: West Jordan, UT

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby Admin » Mon May 01, 2017 8:35 pm

Bobby left in disgust. Amy filed a written complaint. Enjoy your Kool-Aid.
Image

Image
User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9969
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:32 am
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby BobMc » Mon May 01, 2017 8:56 pm

I'll keep enjoying it every weekend they remain open. They've had their spring schedule on their site for a few weeks, Peruvian has been listed as closed, to their credit they open it on high volume days. Sunday an accident happened and they couldn't open it for reasons that were apparent.

BTW, I do find it rather humorous you show up at 8:30 on a Saturday after a 4 foot week to the only game in town open expecting no crowds. Good god man, haven't you been around this season? After the last couple seasons people are powder horny like no other, any accumulation brings out the hordes. I got to the bypass just after 7:30 and there were already 15-20 cars. I joined the tram line a bit before 8 and was still 4 rows back.

Sure, Snowbird could've opened up every lift in the place, and I wish they did. But, I knew going in what they would have open and I figured it'd be the junk show I encountered. (Except Sunday which like I said was an accident that happens at times) Next weekend will probably be back to normal springtime and I'll be walking onto trams.
BobMc
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:38 pm
Location: West Jordan, UT

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby egieszl » Tue May 02, 2017 10:00 am

Dude, BobMc, you're defending the poor decisions of mountain management and they contradicting that position with some of your words! Seriously?
2014-15 ski season stats- Vertical: 1,154,634, Days: 42, Lift rides: 729, Top day vertical: 45,444;
Total past nine seasons as of 1/22/16- Vertical: 10,344,359, Days: 407, Lift rides: 6,541;
egieszl
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:50 am
Location: Snowmass Village, CO

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby egieszl » Tue May 02, 2017 10:08 am

Tony Crocker wrote:This is a recurring problem at Snowbird as noted when I was there in 2011.
BobMc wrote:They've started maintenance on the Zoom lift

And why would they do that in April if they gave a @%& about their customers? It's not like the tram or Mammoth's gondola that needs to serve summer customers and thus requires maintenance be done in late spring.


Tony I don't buy the argument that maintenance must be done on Mammoth's Panorama Gondola in the spring to serve summer visitors. I'm pretty certain that maintenance could be deferred to the fall. I think Mammoth uses that excuse to cut operating costs, particularly midweek in June. However to their credit, if snow conditions have been good, they've taken the extra steps to operate the Gondola on the weekends and keep the closure to midweek.

Mammoth today isn't as committed to their late season operations as they once were 30 years ago, but they are certainly better than Snowbird and for an April weekend.
2014-15 ski season stats- Vertical: 1,154,634, Days: 42, Lift rides: 729, Top day vertical: 45,444;
Total past nine seasons as of 1/22/16- Vertical: 10,344,359, Days: 407, Lift rides: 6,541;
egieszl
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:50 am
Location: Snowmass Village, CO

Re: (Almost) Snowbird, UT 4/29/2017

Postby Tony Crocker » Tue May 02, 2017 11:14 am

egieszl wrote:Mammoth today isn't as committed to their late season operations as they once were 30 years ago

I'm up there regularly in Mammoth's late season and I disagree with that assessment. In the first years of Starwood I saw just a few instances where you might draw that conclusion. All of those seem to have been reversed recently.
1) The formally announced "Broadway Rule." This stated that Mammoth would close when Broadway runs out of snow. I viewed that at the time as a retreat because I had skied 3 and the top at end of May 1981 and July 4, 1986 with gondola downloading. I eventually concluded that the Broadway Rule was unlikely to shorten the season because Broadway is now more durable with a snowmaking base it didn't have in the 1980's. At any rate, the Broadway Rule was completely abandoned last season.
2) In 2009 Mammoth closed in mid-June when there was probably enough snow to make July 4. We should remember that 2009 was the depth of the recession and it's highly likely spring attendance was not that great. Last season was the opposite with 100 inches less snowfall than 2009. Mammoth stayed open to July 4 even though Saddle Bowl was a narrow WROD, pretty scary from the pictures I saw. Since I began skiing in 1978 Mammoth has never stayed open with that little snow in late season, though the snow stats imply that they did a couple of times in the early 1970's.
3) In 2011 Mammoth closed July 4 with clearly enough snowpack to run a few more weeks. We heard at the time that Mammoth would never run later than that again, yet the rumors are rampant now that they will this year because race camps have been lined up for a month beyond July 4.

egieszl wrote:Tony I don't buy the argument that maintenance must be done on Mammoth's Panorama Gondola in the spring to serve summer visitors. I'm pretty certain that maintenance could be deferred to the fall. I think Mammoth uses that excuse to cut operating costs, particularly midweek in June.

I think there is a fear of weather impacting fall maintenance. At any rate the current maintenance schedule is better for ski conditions than in the old days when the gondola would run all spring but chair 23 would shut down. Due to lack of skier traffic the chair 23 runs would get suncupped and deteriorate to an unskiable condition. There is no question that more of the upper runs were skier packed and in decent shape on July 4 in 2005, 2006 and 2011 than in 1983 or 1995. It does not seem that the 2-week gondola closure in June is long enough to screw up Climax. Dave's does deteriorate but I'm guessing that's because the traverse over there burns off.

Admin wrote:Bobby left in disgust. Amy filed a written complaint. Enjoy your Kool-Aid.

+1 Everyone here knows I think Snowbird is the world's finest ski area and has seen plenty of :snowball fight: between admin and myself on Alta vs. Snowbird. But that does not prevent me from calling Snowbird out regarding their crappy spring customer service, which I observed first hand in this time frame in 2011. I actually think it's bad enough that spring destination visitors should prefer A-Basin if Pali is open but Peruvian and Gadzoom are closed. That's if they can't get to Mammoth of course. :-P

I also scrutinize Mammoth's operations, and in that case I have 40 years of records to document changes, positive or negative. While I'm pleased that overall mountain ops at Mammoth have remained at Dave McCoy standards, there are other policies one could question. Mammoth has adopted the Vail dynamic pricing model with a vengeance. Window tickets through April 23 this season were $149. Mammoth has also applied its own standards to Big Bear, which I believe as a daytrip area is a fundamentally different market. Shortening former lift operating hours and making most of the walking distance weekend parking $20 are the most controversial changes at Big Bear. On the positive side Mammoth has significantly upgraded food & beverage and rentals & lessons at Big Bear.

BobMc wrote:BTW, I do find it rather humorous you show up at 8:30 on a Saturday after a 4 foot week to the only game in town open expecting no crowds.

I see some truth here. Admin has had an axe to grind with Snowbird's press restrictions of the past two years, and I get some vibe that his effort to ski Saturday was somewhat half-hearted. Nonetheless Amy and BobbyD have combined passes and no deep seated Altaphile prejudices and they found Saturday at Snowbird to be a complete $%&#show also.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 9790
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

Previous

Return to Western North America

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


All content herein copyright © 1999-2017 First Tracks!! Online Media

Forums Terms & Conditions of Use