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RIP Jamie Pierre

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Re: Solitude, UT 11/13/11

Postby Bobby Danger » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:08 pm

two day course --- instructed by bruce tremper 14 -15 years ago
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Re: Re: Solitude, UT 11/13/11

Postby socal » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:52 am

Patrick wrote:
rfarren wrote:I can't believe that Jamie Pierre had no avy training! That is incredible.

Okay, not saying that he shouldn't have avy training, but I'm tired of people piling up on he guy. Who here as had avy training (not counting reading a book or seeing a DVD - actually course by a certified instructor)?


As a casual skier who skis exclusivly in bounds i dont have any training nor do i really feel the need to get any. Then again my full time job doesn't include skiing mostly in the backcountry.


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Re: Solitude, UT 11/13/11

Postby Patrick » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:09 am

Bobby Danger wrote:two day course --- instructed by bruce tremper 14 -15 years ago


Good Bobby, who's next?

I hate second guessing one's decisions (MMQB) based on their perceived notions of the situation. Not defending his actions, but all the comments about his lack of avy knowledge and lack of training is over the top if it's coming from people that haven't had the training themselves. Not judging, just saying.

PS. I also followed a 2 day avy level 1 course back in 2008.
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Re: Solitude, UT 11/13/11

Postby Killclimbz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:58 pm

Patrick wrote:
Bobby Danger wrote:two day course --- instructed by bruce tremper 14 -15 years ago


Good Bobby, who's next?

I hate second guessing one's decisions (MMQB) based on their perceived notions of the situation. Not defending his actions, but all the comments about his lack of avy knowledge and lack of training is over the top if it's coming from people that haven't had the training themselves. Not judging, just saying.

PS. I also followed a 2 day avy level 1 course back in 2008.


Level 1 in 2001, did my Level 2 last year with Silverton Avalanche school. I've been riding almost exclusively in the backcountry since back in 01.

I also work with an organization that provides free avalanche training. Friends of Berthoud Pass. Trying to make a difference. It's definitely a junk show at certain areas (Berthoud included), but we've made a big impact in the number of people who carry avalanche gear on Berthoud Pass versus those that don't. Can't get them all to comply, but from a visual stand point it's much better there today than it was in 01.

As far as the mistakes Jamie made, it blew my mind. No formal avalanche training is a broad statement. I know quite a few people who have had no formal training, but know their stuff. After reading everything I am not so sure about Jamie. Maybe he just got powder fever like the rest of the crowd. Seems that there were a lot of warning signs that said he should back off or choose different terrain.

It really sucks, he was fun to watch and the man could ski.
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Re: Solitude, UT 11/13/11

Postby rfarren » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:25 pm

Killclimbz wrote: I know quite a few people who have had no formal training, but know their stuff. After reading everything I am not so sure about Jamie. Maybe he just got powder fever like the rest of the crowd. Seems that there were a lot of warning signs that said he should back off or choose different terrain.


I can't imagine that he would've ignored the avy forecast if he had had proper training, or even if he really knew his stuff.
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Re: Re: Solitude, UT 11/13/11

Postby Admin » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:49 pm

rfarren wrote:I can't imagine that he would've ignored the avy forecast if he had had proper training, or even if he really knew his stuff.


A whole slew of people ignored it on Sunday. That was shocking to me. Even if you hadn't read Sunday's avalanche report, however, the signs were readily available all around to anyone with any mountain sense whatsoever. That to me is even more shocking.

You don't need formal training to be capable of looking around you and having a sense of situational awareness. Sadly, not many people in upper LCC used that on Sunday. It's imperative that anyone who uses the backcountry in winter understand their surroundings and exercise good judgment to protect not only themselves, but also those who they might place in danger as a result of their actions.

The slide that killed Pierre occurred in a funnel shaped bowl and rescuers who responded faced a very real danger of additional slides relaxing from elsewhere in the bowl. While rescuers were tending to the victim of the Gunsight slide at Alta, other morons were kicking down additional slides from above. There is just no excuse for that kind of cluelessness.

The more I learn about Sunday's incidents, and the more I think about them, the angrier and more frustrated I become.

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Re: Re: Solitude, UT 11/13/11

Postby baldyskier » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:33 pm

Admin wrote:
rfarren wrote:I can't imagine that he would've ignored the avy forecast if he had had proper training, or even if he really knew his stuff.


A whole slew of people ignored it on Sunday. That was shocking to me. Even if you hadn't read Sunday's avalanche report, however, the signs were readily available all around to anyone with any mountain sense whatsoever. That to me is even more shocking.

You don't need formal training to be capable of looking around you and having a sense of situational awareness. Sadly, not many people in upper LCC used that on Sunday. It's imperative that anyone who uses the backcountry in winter understand their surroundings and exercise good judgment to protect not only themselves, but also those who they might place in danger as a result of their actions.

The slide that killed Pierre occurred in a funnel shaped bowl and rescuers who responded faced a very real danger of additional slides relaxing from elsewhere in the bowl. While rescuers were tending to the victim of the Gunsight slide at Alta, other morons were kicking down additional slides from above. There is just no excuse for that kind of cluelessness.

The more I learn about Sunday's incidents, and the more I think about them, the angrier and more frustrated I become.

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I wonder how much of the irresponsible behavior on Sunday was due to the fact that people were skiing in a normally in-bounds area and were not seeing it as a backcountry excursion requiring heightened awareness and caution.
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Re: RIP Jamie Pierre

Postby Bobby Danger » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:59 am

the majority of people i saw in collins gulch on sunday had no respect for the mtn. or the conditions at the time . when i was ascending to collins summit i didn't travel the normal way as to say with the rest of the crowd . i made my ascent up through the spring valley scenic byway , alot of people had already laid in a skin trail there . as i was approaching the southern end of spring valley - hence just under freds trees the summer road takes a left turn there and heads east for 150 yards now every thing above you is freds trees --- two females were decending freds trees neither from my observations had the needed skills to ski that run especially this time of year --- never mind the skills to read the snow pack , both set off slides above me that stopped on what is left of the summer road , by this point of course i had gotten the hell out of the way -- neither slide was of any major depth or any real speed but some time , especially early like this they can carry alot of junk ,where as a person may not die from being buried but from impact trauma . i do most of my back country alone have for over twenty years when one does not respect the mtn . and do at a minimum the basics in testing the snow pack --a ski cut on the run your going to ski -- aleast one pit it becomes a game of roulette . i listed the conditions on my sat . report from peruvian gulch as sympathetic -- meaning one could expect a slide anywhere any time in the unexpected place and i witnessed some after and before the cat driver departed upper peruvian gulch . to bad he let his guard down we would have many more years of ski films from him he was young.
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Re: RIP Jamie Pierre

Postby kingslug » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:51 am

One of the things the instructors stressed in the Level 1 I took was the "expert" aspect. The more experience one has can sometimes lead to bad decisions and other people following along..because the "expert" made the decision..so it must be a good one...I still can't judge someone like him as he had far more experience out there then I will ever have...
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Re: RIP Jamie Pierre

Postby Tony Crocker » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:25 pm

I have had no avalanche training, but after a week at ISSW last year I wouldn´t go anywhere with a rating of "Considerable."

Also, we have had discussions here before about how these early October storms leave a dangerous weak layer and there tends to be a lot of avy activity when the first big storms land on that layer several weeks later.

I agree with the posters who said there may have been a false sense of security because it was "inbounds terrain," even though it was uncontrolled.
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