Zermatt, Switz., Feb. 9, 2014

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Re: Zermatt, Switz., Feb. 9, 2014

Postby Tony Crocker » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:37 pm

It would have been quite understandable if admin had required all of us to have avy gear at Snowbasin as at Devil's Castle 3 years ago.

Good point on Patsy Marley. It's become "part of the Alta routine" so easy to take less seriously than something like No Name.

I've thought the avi discussion should be split out for some time. However I also thought it might be viewed as a "conflict of interest" if I were the person making the split. Admin?
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Re: Zermatt, Switz., Feb. 9, 2014

Postby Marc_C » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:54 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:It would have been quite understandable if admin had required all of us to have avy gear at Snowbasin as at Devil's Castle 3 years ago.

And that was spring, implying wet avalanches, which are far less survivable (they set up like concrete almost immediately after they stop; digging out a victim is extremely difficult)

Tony Crocker wrote:Good point on Patsy Marley. It's become "part of the Alta routine" so easy to take less seriously than something like No Name.

Complacency - exactly how so many get the chop. I see that attitude in many of our local crew.
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Re: Zermatt, Switz., Feb. 9, 2014

Postby Admin » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:35 pm

Marc_C wrote:That's the entire point of this discussion and Admin beating on you - to get out of that "my life is in your hands" guided mentality. The huge problem is that bolded part above - on PM the areas that should be skied on at a time are very obvious - this is a basic avi skill that should not require a "guide" telling you one-at-a-time instructions.


This bears repeating because it's the whole crux of this entire discussion. I'm not your guide. For starters, I'm anything but qualified. I'm someone who's skiing with you and happens to choose to ski a particular terrain. You choose to come along but you have to be capable of making your own decisions because I'm not making them for you. Whether you bring gear, whether you back away, etc. is your decision but it has to be an informed one because I'm not your mommy. When your decisions (or lack of decision making skills) become a threat to my personal safety, I'm no longer willing to allow you to follow, especially when you have a demonstrated adversity to acquiring that knowledge yourself. That just plain shocks me and I've even brought that horse to water, but he just won't drink. Not my problem anymore.

How many guides you've hired, how many beacons you own, etc., has no impact upon that decision making ability, as you've demonstrated yourself numerous times.

As for tseeb's post on Snowbasin, I meant to reply but forgot to. I'll do that shortly, but before he posted that we had a very productive backchannel discussion. While he raises some excellent points, there are some very key issues that I respectfully disagree with that in my opinion significantly change the dynamic that was involved that day.
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Re: Zermatt, Switz., Feb. 9, 2014

Postby jamesdeluxe » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:27 am

Admin wrote: When your decisions (or lack of decision making skills) become a threat to my personal safety, I'm no longer willing to allow you to follow, especially when you have a demonstrated adversity to acquiring that knowledge yourself. That just plain shocks me and I've even brought that horse to water, but he just won't drink. Not my problem anymore.

Were you two able to resolve your differences in person at GMD like big boys? :-D
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Re: Zermatt, Switz., Feb. 9, 2014

Postby Admin » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:34 am

Of course not. The needling continued in person.
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