Serre Chevalier, France - 2/06

ChrisC

Well-known member
We were supposed to ski La Grave everyday. However, the weather did not always cooperate. One day there was about 10cm of new snow in La Grave, but low cloud levels and high winds. Unfortunately, La Grave's lift did not open. Our guide called other guides/friends and found Les 2 Alpes and Alp d'Huez were similar to La Grave - windy, lift holds and only about 10cm new. However, Serre Chevalier had received about 30cm (and counting) and was mostly open. The choice was obvious - Serre Che it is!

Southern Alp Weather Patterns
This episode points to the unique weather patterns of the Southern Alps. Collectively, these resorts span a segment of highway of about 30 miles. However, their weather patterns vary -- partially to the height of La Meije (13,000 ft), the high point in the region. Serre Chevalier does best from southern storms (like this one initially) that affect Italy too. La Grave/Les 2 Alpes do well with western/NW tracks. And Alpe d'Huez can get clipped by northern disturbances that do not make it down to its neighbors. This is quite diverse for a relatively small region.

This report also demonstrates why a car is important and the ability to travel while staying in La Grave. The primary (and obvious) reason is that the lift is closed one or two days per week. Secondly (and importantly), the best conditions could be just miles away while you are skiing dust on crust or something. Since all these mountains have some decent challenges to offer, powder-hunting for new snow is realistic.

French Highways and Maintenance
Getting to Serre Chevalier was another story. Although only 15 miles from La Grave, there is a pass to cross to Serre Chevalier. Not huge, but significant enough. However, French winter highway maintenance leaves something to be desired -- the roads were a mess. Tour buses were stuck. Trucks stranded. Suprising, since this is the main road between Grenoble and Turin, Italy. I did not see any plows on our trip. In fact, the pass later closed for most of the day...finally reopening in the evening to let us back home.

Mountain
My British friends were quite pleased with skiing Serre Che for a day. My attitude was "Serre What?" for this is another huge Euro hill that I had never really heard, let alone a desire to ski. However, put a foot of new snow in an alpine bowl environment -- and I'm game.

Serre Chevalier is a sprawling complex (see maps). Essentially it is one long ridge with a vertical drop of 5000 with access points from several villages. Its unique compared to other Alpine resorts for its trees. The lower half of the mountain is below the tree-line (great news on storm days like the one I visited on) while the upper half is open bowls. Good combo! The negative about Serre Chavalier is its low elevation of approximately 4000 ft, but not a worry in the middle of winter.

SerreChevalierMap.jpg


Our guide recommended Monetier since it has some of the best advanced terrain, is less crowded than the main sector and located closest to La Grave on the highway.

SerreChevalierMap2.jpg

SerreChevalierMap23.jpg


Skiing.
When there is 30cm already and another another 20cm or so during the day, the numbers speak for themselves. It was epic. No pics since it was too snowy, windy and time-consuming. There are no friends on powder days so I had to keep up. The new snow got tracked, but not completely skied out. It was quite easy to simply traverse a bit more and have fresh lines. Also, I do not think a lot of hard-core types come to Serre Che so competition for nice lines is negligible. Some of the better routes are highlighted. Overall, the skiing was more high intermediate/low expert -- nothing too extreme -- with a couoir or two thrown in. Perfect for new snow without sorrying about getting buried by an avalanche.

SerreChevalierMap4.jpg
 
I knew (although I've never been) to Serre-Chevalier, my wife grew up in "les Alpes du Sud" not to far from Serre Che. But I also heard about this place from a friend that lives in the South of France.

The place which off the radar screen from most non-European (non-French except maybe Italians?) as Alpe d'Huez and les 2 Alpes are. People that come from farther away then to stayed in the Tarantaise mega-resorts in Savoie (3 vallées, Plagne, Les Arcs and Val d'Isère/Tignes) or in Haute-Savoie next to Geneva which includes Chamonix.

ChrisC":2w45ycww said:
The new snow got tracked, but not completely skied out. It was quite easy to simply traverse a bit more and have fresh lines. Also, I do not think a lot of hard-core types come to Serre Che so competition for nice lines is negligible.

It's been my observation that the most skiers in Europe don't go off-piste and stay on "marked-pistes". I don't think that Serre Chevalier would be an exception in that way. Val Thorens and les 3 vallées, although the biggest ski resort in the World was a perfect example. Even if there were only maybe 3 runs off a 150 people Tram, 99.8% of the skiers/boarders would stay on the runs leaving the whole 900meters vertical under the Tram deserted for ourselves. \:D/

Although I didn't know Admin personally back then, I'm pretty sure he noticed the same thing on that same week back in March 2003. :shock:

Actually the only place in France that I've seen people ski everywhere is Chamonix.
 
Patrick":26ikh5kn said:
Although I didn't know Admin personally back then, I'm pretty sure he noticed the same thing on that same week back in March 2003. :shock:

Absolutement.
 
Actually the only place in France that I've seen people ski everywhere is Chamonix.

I was in Chamonix 3rd week of February during British and part of French school holidays and liftlines were considerable. Nonetheless check out the 3000 vertical of smooth and empty windbuff in the Combe de la Pendant bowl at Grands Montets on a nice sunny day:

3479.jpg
 
I think some posts got deleted. I do not see mine from yesterday.

Tony and Patrick, I was curious about how long liftlines were in Chamonix during Feb. school breaks?

During Christmas-to-NYears, I did not find them intolerable. Things were busy, but it did get too bad.

Liftlines
My experience was the following:
Grands Montets - 3 cars tram, 10 min Bochard gondola, 5 or less Herse 6-pack

Brevent - Cornu (5-15 min), Flegere - main lift (5-10 min), Le Tour - frontside quad (10 min), backside (5 min). However, this is changed now that the main lifts at Brevent/Fleger are 6-packs.


French school holidays.
I understand that French school are dived into 3 zones. Vacation is 2 weeks and over a 3-week period - only 2 zones are off. For skiing, Paris is the worse zone to overlap with - since it's most likely the most crowded in the French Alps.

The Euro Snowheads.com has this info.
 
ChrisC":3w0ypezm said:
I think some posts got deleted. I do not see mine from yesterday.

Tony and Patrick, I was curious about how long liftlines were in Chamonix during Feb. school breaks?
I replied about the liftlines and school holidays, but that also disappear into the black hole. I'll reply this evening as I wanted to confirm something with my wife regarding French school holidays, as her dealt with these and skied at that time of the year.
 
Having the British holiday during my week (as well as some French) must have made it a peak week. I was on a NASJA trip with guides and we did have some line-cutting privileges.

Day 1 Le Tour nice weather: lines were erratic averaging 5 minutes. The was one big line at the backside quad mid-afternoon, might have been 15 mins without the guides.
Day 2 Grands-Montets nice weather: Don't remember lower tram in the morning. Upper tram was 10-15 minutes with guides, not sure how much more without. Gondola and Combes de la Pendant chair had minimal lines, also HSQ under upper tram that I didn't use.
Day 3 Vallee Blanche nice weather: Reservation essential in morning, very busy, still waited 10 minutes or so. End of day gondola up to catch the train back to Chamonix was about a 40 minute wait.
Day 4 Courmayeur OK weather but variable snow: There are 2 trams, one near the tunnel that was down that day. The other one in town was thus a zoo getting on the mountain, at least 45 minutes. We probably waited 15 minutes to download that same tram at the end of the day. Other lifts during the day maybe 10 minutes or so.
Day 5 Verbier overcast weather but good snow and no closures: 5-10 minutes for trams, less than 5 minutes for chairs and gondolas. Appeared to be a very high capacity lift system.
Day 6 Brevant-Flegere clear but windy with several Flegere lifts closed: 30 minutes to get up Brevant. Chairs 5-10 minutes. 40 minutes to cross back from Flegere to Brevant because download tram at Flegere was closed. 45 minutes to get down Brevant using French line cutting techniques :wink: . Otherwise that one would have been over an hour.

Conclusion: It's sort of like Mammoth 25 years ago, not bad if all the lifts are running, but let the weather close down a few and the lines can get out of hand.

I had two posts deleted yesterday morning, redid them yesterday afternoon.
 
About skiing off marked-trails (which I mentioned and I believe that Chris talked about Val d'Isère not being as bad as my description). You'll find in Chamonix and Val d'Isère a greater percentage of hardcore skiers than some other places.

Tony Crocker":3ewgj0d7 said:
Having the British holiday during my week (as well as some French) must have made it a peak week. I was on a NASJA trip with guides and we did have some line-cutting privileges.
Chamonix isn't really a prime ski destination for French families during Spring Break. Skiing French families would tend to go more to areas with on-hill accommodations.

About Liftlines:

What I said yesterday was that the actual wait per person can vary greatly in a French line. At worst I've seen wait time for a chairlift vary much as 15 minutes between people from a same group. Yes, what I'm saying is that the first person off the lift can wait for his body over 15 minutes to join him, even if they started waiting in the same queue at the same time. There are many different line etiquette to follow, if not you might still be waiting when the lift close.

School holidays:

There are 3 school zones in France, each having a 2 week Spring Break on different time but overlapping.

From 2006-07 school holiday are from February 10 to March 12.

Zone A: samedi 10 février 2007-lundi 26 février 2007
Zone C: samedi 17 février 2007-lundi 5 mars 2007
Zone B: samedi 24 février 2007-lundi 12 mars 2007


Zone A: Caen , Clermont-Ferrand , Grenoble , Lyon , Montpellier , Nancy-Metz , Nantes , Rennes , Toulouse

Zone B: Besançon , Aix-Marseille , Amiens , Dijon , Lille , Limoges , Nice , Orléans-Tours , Poitiers , Reims , Rouen , Strasbourg

Zone C: Bordeaux , Créteil , Paris , Versailles (probably the worst one according to my wife as many people from Paris would book a week + another zone).

http://www.education.gouv.fr/pid184/le- ... =4&annee=2

More or less stay away from ski areas that the French would tend to go to (if you have to go, stay away from the Killingtons and go to the MRGs).

In March 2003 (not sure if he repeated the experience), my skiing friend from France actually booked his family ski vacation the week after, this even if his kids would miss an entire week of school.

Stay away from those weeks!!!
 
Killingtons and go to the MRGs).
"and what are they.......I'm confused"

Ill do more reports. Val'd Isere and Three Valleys big time.

Paris sucks.....too crowded in the Alps

I want to watch JackAss 2....

If you dare crap on blacks, gays or hispanics....we have a huge problem....this is my generation....these are fighting words.

I like straights, boobs or whatever......

Arnie hired a lesbian as chief of staff (Susan Kennedy)...I back her. He has less than Cali under control.

This is California....and I love a good mess
 
ChrisC":2qzg6k6a said:
Killingtons and go to the MRGs).
"and what are they.......I'm confused"
What I meant was that better go to the more hardcore or area that aren't high on the tourists radar. La Grave would definitely fit that description. 3 vallées, La Plagne, Alpe d'Huez and Serre Chevalier would not.

ChrisC":2qzg6k6a said:
Ill do more reports. Val'd Isere and Three Valleys big time.
Did you go in the last season also? Your reports are very informative. Looking forward to read your take of these two massive areas. Val d'Isère/Tignes being my favorite that I've skied in the Alps.

ChrisC":2qzg6k6a said:
I want to watch JackAss 2....(and a whole bunch of other stuff)

Now I'm the one confused. :roll:
 
I was going to ask which French resorts would be most sensitive to holiday overcrowding. Would Val d'Isere/Tignes handle the crowds OK?

I'm quite convinced after my week in Chamonix that if you're off-piste with guides skier density is never an issue. So a modern high capacity lift system would handle a holiday week fine. That was my impression (albeit only about 5 hours worth) at Verbier.
 
Tony Crocker":99bu3r1o said:
I was going to ask which French resorts would be most sensitive to holiday overcrowding. Would Val d'Isere/Tignes handle the crowds OK?

I'm quite convinced after my week in Chamonix that if you're off-piste with guides skier density is never an issue. So a modern high capacity lift system would handle a holiday week fine. That was my impression (albeit only about 5 hours worth) at Verbier.

There's always a place to get away from the crowds in the mega-resorts, however it's my experience that the main trails and crossovers that can be a nightware. Try to imagine L.A. without any traffic lights (odds of collisions are greater).

Lifts at Chamonix (at least Brévent/Flégère and Grand Montets) weren't state-of-the-art high capacity lifts in 2003. You go to les 3 vallées or Val d'Isère/Tignes and you have 6 and 7 packs HS chairs everywhere, gondolas, Trams, Funiculaires. All this adds an enormous amount of people of the hill. Even if the terrain is huge, the French tourists tend to stay on marked trails and funnels at the base or at the bottom of lifts.

I've never been in Europe during the school holidays, however I've seen how busy it can be the week after (3 vallées), Christmas holidays (Alpe d'Huez) and been to Val d'Isère the week prior to Christmas and 3rd week of January. I can imagine how it would look during that time. Remember, it's "Anarchy in the Liftlines" and we can do anything, we're on vacations. It's been my observation over the skiing days in Europe that the general European tourist still is somewhat lower than the one found in the East (cannot speak for the West). Most tourists only ski one week a year.

I don't know the numbers for this, here are some facts:

French resorts are bigger than the US.
France has 55 millions people compare to something 300 millions in the US.
Minimum vacations in France is 5 weeks compared to the 2 weeks in the US. How many people in the US take a skiing week in the Winter compare to French? I don't have the answer, but I would think the odds are higher that you find them in a ski resort than the normal American.
 
France and the U.S. both get about 50 million skier visits per year.

It's not obvious which country has more lift-accessible ski terrain. It makes sense that base area crowding has to be much worse in France. It had been a long time (mid-1980's Christmas weeks at Alta and Mt. High) since I've seen lineups like Courmayeur and Brevant in 2004. There were those morning tram lines at Jackson, but I had an option to avoid those.

The conventional wisdom is that many more French people ski but most of them usually only do the one week a year and stay on the piste. A much higher proportion of U.S. skier visits are from the fanatics like us. Thus more competition on powder days as Chris has noted.

It sounds like 3 Vallees and Val d'Isere are doable on holiday weeks but you'll have a few K-Mart/Mt. High experiences on the way to the good stuff.
 
Tony Crocker":t07wmsyf said:
The conventional wisdom is that many more French people ski but most of them usually only do the one week a year and stay on the piste.

Yes, that's my impression.

Tony Crocker":t07wmsyf said:
It sounds like 3 Vallees and Val d'Isere are doable on holiday weeks but you'll have a few K-Mart/Mt. High experiences on the way to the good stuff.

It's always doable, but like Kmart in peak periods, prices for lodging are higher. If it's the only time you can go, then go, but if you're flexible for the dates of a ski trip to France. I would personnally stay away from goes weeks...unless you're planning to go to La Grave.
 
As I prepare for my visit in two weeks, I bumped ChrisC's 17-year-old report to ask about something that's posted in the Powderhounds' Serre Chevalier overview.

Serre Chevalier is on par with Sauze d'Oulx and the Via Lattea (located just over the border in Italy) as having the best tree skiing in western Europe. The larch forests provide perfect spacing up high, increasing in technicality the lower one goes.

The bolded part is quite a claim -- a superlative that I've never heard before in connection with any of these resorts. Can Chris, Tony, and/or Fraser provide feedback?
 
My day at Serre Cheavier was cloudy, frozen granular after a month with no snow, so only on piste for a couple of hours. ChrisC's "Skiing" map has some lines going through trees. By context of his report I'm sure it was excellent skiing.

For those us headed that way, my concern would be how robust is the coverage, even with the resurfacing of the past week. It might be good down to a certain elevation (1,800 or so?) but perhaps questionable any lower. The upcoming storm is supposed to be good for the Southern French Alps, though best for the areas farthest west. Perhaps Fraser can answer that question.

FYI the lift lines I mention above from Courmayeur and Brevant-Flegere during the February holiday week in 2004 remain by far the worst I've experienced in the Alps.
 
In answer to the tree question: Serre Chevalier has, without any doubt, the best tree skiing - in terms of extensive tree skiing at a reasonable altitude - of any resort in France, perhaps even in Europe, yes. The tree line is a bit higher than in the northern Alps, about 2200-2300m which means that about 60% of the considerable area is wooded. As for the imminent storm cycle, the detail is a bit clearer now. We have lost the extreme snowfall potential but there will still be significant snow for most of the Alps between tomorrow and Thursday, with the northern French Alps likely to do best. Equally importantly, it will be cold, with snow falling into the lowlands as of later tomorrow. Will be updating the site tomorrow morning but estimates for snowfall totals at 2000m between now and Thursday are about 20-30cm in Serre Chevalier, 50-75cm further north (e.g. Portes du Soleil). Maybe only 10-20cm in the Milky Way (Tony) but there is "room for surprises" to coin a French expression.
 
In answer to the tree question: Serre Chevalier has, without any doubt, the best tree skiing - in terms of extensive tree skiing at a reasonable altitude - of any resort in France, perhaps even in Europe, yes.

The guides in La Grave took us to Serre Chevalier when it was too snowy. We did both bowls and trees.

Agree with everything Fraser states. Even the first gondola -trees- of La Grave was very good with 6-8 inches.

Please don't post pics from 15-20 years ago.... gets me sad. :eusa-angel: What a ski dork I've been.

Tony keeps telling me what a lousy choice Courmayeur might be....but it's been almost 15-20 years. since I've seen them..and they picked it. We will see. I think the snow will blow over from Mont Blanc.
 
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Snowfall totals (Bergfex) in Alps for next 5 days. Good for general impression though plenty of margin for error as situation quite complex. Note, greatest totals likely in northern French Alps and Austria's far south (Carinthia). But also worth noting, snow in the lowlands right across Germany etc.
 

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If any of you are interested, I scanned and PDF'd the chapters from the Where To Ski And Snowboard book about three of the four areas I intend to ski on this visit: Serre Chevalier, Puy St. Vincent, and Vars-Risoul. They're from the 2013 edition so some of the info may be out of date.

As always, the book provides a helpful overview of the + and - for a given ski area with the obvious disclaimers: 1) it's written from a very UK standpoint, and 2) it tends to cover ski resorts only where there's a heavy (or growing) presence of British ski holiday agents. Given its comparatively modest size, I'm curious why there's even a small chapter about Puy St. Vincent; however, that may take us back to disclaimer #2.
 

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