Demo Day at Cannon: Thoughts on some skis...

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Demo Day at Cannon: Thoughts on some skis...

Postby riverc0il » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:46 pm

december 10 was demo day at cannon and i pushed about a dozen skis as far as early season conditions in the east would allow on limited terrain (read: one way down, mostly groomed with small patches of loose powder and mini-bumps on the side of the trail). i will preference my evaluations with a big about myself: i am a 6'1" male weighing in at around 220 lbs. and come from a racer background but continue to push myself in the off piste direction and favor natural snow conditions and steeper trails. i ski rather aggressively and love to turn, speed is not something i look for at all but rather control and quickness of turn while also a ski that will support my less than graceful technique. i currently ski a volk p50 motion in 183. here we go:

Dynastar 8000 Legend (178)
116/79/102

starting with the best first. wow. WOW. killer short turns, nimble despite being the widest ski i have ever tried. i was really skeptical of the 79 measurement under the boot, couldn't believe the way i snapped this sucker all over the place with ease. quick, sharp, and responsive on all terrain. even GS turns on the groomers felt OK, not great but decent considering how much this ski excelled on loose powder, bumps, and crudish snow. i felt like i was dancing while on this ski, it hugged the snow like no other ski i have been on has.

any one know how this ski would work with an AT rig? i am [strike]considering[/strike] definitely going AT, and i think these boards may fit the bill. 1765g doesn't seem bad considering a wood core which i favor, but who's counting when the turns are that good, eh?

Volkl 6* (175)
114-68-99
:lol: :lol: :lol:
this wasn't a serious demo in any sense of the try before you buy sense. this was simply a joy ride. i have been a huge volkl fan since first clicking into a pair and knew this ski was just rediculous for carving high speed. i actually tried a bump or two to start things off, hahahah. i wasted no time in just letting these suckas run. wow. WOW. WOOOOOOW. holy crap! i wish i had these suckers when i was racing in college. they waste no time in picking up speed and just keep going, so fast. edged through scraped and "new england ice" like it was butter, couldn't believe it. i will never doubt my technique again, sometimes it is just a case of the ski not being up to the conditions. keeping this one in mind for 4 years down the road when it starts going for only $100 on ebay. it's focus is so narrow i would never use it for a full day of skiing, but this ski was insanely fun and brought pleasure to groomed conditions for two runs, i couldn't believe it!

Elan M666 (176)
116/76/102
really solid ski and my second favorite of today's batch. short snappy turns were fun and non-groomed was where i found this ski excelled. tail felt really solid under my weight and the construction is solid as well. stability at speed was less than satisfactory for me and groomed conditions were ok, nothing fantastic. bullied this ski a bit and thought i might have been happied on the 184 if they had it. overall i really liked it, but wouldn't be putting up mid-season bills for it.

Volkl 724 Pro (177)
115-77-104
this ski seems billed as one of those "all mountain skis" that is good for the front side and the back side. all in one, perfect right!?? well, maybe not so perfect. i experienced great volkl groomer action with awesome GS style turns with great stability at speed and excellent grip. but felt the ski was piss poor on short quick snappy turns and small soft bumps. also didn't feel the ski was solid under me and i wanted more 'pop'. not too impressed.

Salomon 720 (171?)
114-80-108
not quite sure how i ended up on this board? the rep pulled out some sorta front side groomer steaming machine that didn't interest me, i mention woods, powder, and natural snow conditions and i end up on a twin tip probably better suited for the park! ummm, this ski did okay at short turns on steeper sections of the trail and was responsive at slower speeds. stability, powder, and bigger turns on groomed terrain were just sad. i sped back for a different ski without really giving this one a complete work out cause it just wasn't something i was even slightly interested in.

Atomic m:11 (???) (172)
127/76/114
the question mark in regards to the name of this ski is that i mistakenly thought the MEtron was really M2, so i thought i was on an atomic m2 whereas merton is an entire division of atomics line. based on color, i am pretty sure it was specifically the m:11 which got some of my lowest marks of the day. after dealing with the cocky atomic rep who thought because he is 250 lbs and skis 160's that everyone should, i barely had much stomach to deal with a ski that wasn't really compatible with my ski style. perhaps it was just that the 172 length was a 11cm's shorter than i am used to. who knows. regardless, i found this ski lacking in most areas of performance i was looking for including short quick nimble turns, stability, pop, and power. it was ok with wide GS turns and is an incredibly solid and well constructed ski, a bit too heavy though. seemed like it would be great in powder and crud which i really couldn't sample, but had no love for my typical on piste skiing habits.

Rossignol B2 (176)
113-76-93
another front side/back side all in one deal that did nothing for me. i do not have a good relationship with rossignol's after spliting a pair of 9.9x's after only 2+ years of use. i don't trust their composition and durability. perhaps their construction and build is better suited to lighter skiers that use more finesee than power. for myself, i found B2 unresponsive to short snappy turns, horrible GS turns on the groomers, lack luster in bumps, and not much pop. seemed like this ski would be fine in powder if you were just going straight though. not for me. probably my least favorite of the bunch in all honesty.

Head Monster (177)
112.2/73.2/101.5
dunno what's up with those decimals in the measurements. more precise than my turns were for sure! this seemed like a blah ski to me. it did everything just okay, didn't find anything special about this ski at all. if you set an edge, it would definitely go go go. though i did think that turning in general lacked the performance i was looking for. it was stable in all conditions, was a solid build, and like the bandit i think might be great in powder but just not meeting my needs for on trail action.

----

there you have it! comments and your own experiences are welcome. though take my own comments with a grain of salt as these are all fantastic and generally high performance skis, but many were just not what i was looking for and/or didn't match my style of skiing and my build. possibly i got the wrong size, but generally i stayed in the mid to upper 170s where i felt fine, just a slight step down from my current 183. i'd be interested to see what other skis you guys might recommend based on my thoughts of the above skis... specifically would like to try something similar to the dynastar legend which really blew me away and besides the joy ride volkl 6*s, the legend was the only pair of skis i took two runs on.
--Steve

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"Skiing is not a sport, it is a way of life." - Otto Schniebs
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re: Demo Day at Cannon: Thoughts on some skis...

Postby riverc0il » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:10 pm

aw shucks, i forgot a few that i did not take notes on. i also tried the dynaster legend 4800 for comparison to the 8000. i thought i would like the narrower waiste a little better, but no way! i found the 4800 less responsive in every conceivable way i could measure the skis. simply wasn't even close to the performance of the 8000.

also skied on a ski from japanese ski maker Ogasaka (who's US division is based here in new england: groveland, ma). the Eturn in a size 180 (103/75/93) is one of their all mountain mid-fats that really didn't do much for me. this ski line seems kinda pricey considering they don't have the reputation here in the states. i figured they must be priced according to performance for sure but didn't get much. maybe the rep didn't hand me what i was looking for.

oh yea, i skied my p50 motions to compare to. man, i never knew how skinny my skis really were! i took a rediculous looking fall on near flat terrain trying to weight more ski than was there.
--Steve

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re: Demo Day at Cannon: Thoughts on some skis...

Postby Tony Crocker » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:58 pm

My son Adam demoed a few skis last year and really liked the Dynastar Nobis model and the midfat from which it was derived. It was too late in the season to order them, and they were replaced by the Legend 8000 and 8800 (even wider). Sounds like the new skis are also worthy of his attention. If you demoed the predecessors and can compare I'd appreciate it.
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re: Demo Day at Cannon: Thoughts on some skis...

Postby riverc0il » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:18 pm

Tony, this was actually my first time on Dynastar skis so I can not compare unfortunately. I just read over on epicski that Intuitiv 74 was a predecesor of the 8000 legend, not sure if that would compare to the Nobis but I have no experience with either.
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re: Demo Day at Cannon: Thoughts on some skis...

Postby riverc0il » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:30 am

i did some more researching and i stand corrected. last year's Intuitiv 74 more matches the legend 4800 which i demod as previously mentioned and found them not as responsive as the 8000. 4800 would probably make for an excellent ski for intermediates looking to get off groomers. the Nobis more matches the legend 8800 which i did not try. the 8000 seems to fall in between the two and fills a void. okay, i am not completely obsessed, yet. :roll:
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re: Demo Day at Cannon: Thoughts on some skis...

Postby Jay Suds » Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:06 pm

I did quite a bit of demo testing today too. Out of all the skis I tried, I *think* I like the Dynastar 8000 the best, but I only got to try it in 165 and I felt that was a little too short for me, so hopefully tomorrow I will get to do a test ride on the 172.

K2 Apache X 167 - This is a good fun, ski but I found it to be too soft. Even though I am a fairly small guy, when on this ski I really didn't need to ski, I could just plow through the bumps and keep my balance. I'd be worried about the stability on of the ski on real steep slows and in harder snow.

K2 Apache Crossfire 167 - A very different ski than the X. I think I am too *small* for this ski, it was very stiff and required a very firm touch to get turning. If you are a bigger guy who ski's aggressively, this is probably a good one to try.

Rossignol B2 176 - Woo, this one was a bit long for me I think. Overall, the ski was OK, but it was the last one I tried and I was pretty tired by that point. I think I may like this ski I tried a shorter version, but they didn't have anything.

Salomon Scream 175 - Again, a bit long for me I think. The integrated binding system was pretty cool, the ski was very responsive overall, particuarly on the ice.

Dynastar 8000 165 - First ski I tried and I thought "gee, no wonder I'm skiing so crappy this season, I've just plain got the wrong ski for these conditions". I found the ski snappy, good going fast, good in the bumps, but a tad too short at 165, maybe :)

Right now I am skiing on Rossi T-Power 9S, which is a great ski for the hard pack, cold temps but it just sucks in this heavy, crudded / bumped up snow conditions as of late. They are actually pretty decent on anything firm, including harder bumps, but have major stability issues going fast through the crud - not surprising giving that it's a very slender ski.

So right now I am at an enpasse so to speak :) The dynastar 8000's are going for about $700. My issue is two fold: I keep harping to my fiance about how we need to conversve cash for our wedding, and if I'm going to spend that much money on a ski, I really probably should put AT bindings as well, which means I'll need AT boots and a decent set of skins .... probably $1500 after it's all said and done, if not more. :shock:

If I do get the ski's, I may try to do what I've done in the past and buy them in Canada. I'm not sure if the discount will be large enough to make it worthwhile, since the dollar is doing so crappy. When I got my T-Power's I found that the price was the same in USD and CDN, and at the time $1 ~ $1.45CDN, so the savings were enormous.

Ok, if you *really* want these ski's looks like eBay has them for $529, in every length but 172 ... go figure: http://search.ebay.com/Dynastar-8000_W0 ... 1QQxpufuZx
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re: Demo Day at Cannon: Thoughts on some skis...

Postby Jay Suds » Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:16 pm

Today I tried out the Dynastar 8000 in 172cm and it was good stuff. And then I tried out the the Volkl 724 PRO. What a great ski but they are marker binding only ... so no AT :( The dimensions on both are nearly identical - 115/77/104 for the 724 and 116/79/102 for the 8000, so I think they would do about as equally as well in the pow. The 724 ripped it up on the hard pack compared to the 8000.

Decisions, decisions.
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Re: re: Demo Day at Cannon: Thoughts on some skis...

Postby Chromer » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:34 pm

riverc0il wrote:Tony, this was actually my first time on Dynastar skis so I can not compare unfortunately. I just read over on epicski that Intuitiv 74 was a predecesor of the 8000 legend, not sure if that would compare to the Nobis but I have no experience with either.


I own and currently ride the Intuitiv 74 as my main ski. Very nice, though I wish they had more edge grip sometimes. I haven't found any upper speed limit on them, yet they're perfectly happy making tight turns through woods lines or bumping zipper lines. I'm glad to hear they may have improved it even more.

FWIW, I have mine mounted about 2.5" to 3" ahead of the boot-center line, and they're lightning quick there. I was getting caught in the backseat when I had them mounted with my boot sole center in the factory-indicated position.

I know you can get the 724 Pro's without the motion system, because a friend of mine has them as her tele skis... They're the direct-line descendent of the legendary Volkl Snow Ranger, the very first shaped mid-fat.
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