Alpine Boots

Harvey

Harvey

Administrator
Staff member
The discussion in the "Comped Lodging" thread has me thinking about the dark side of the force. While we may or may not "ski" specifically for my wife's 40th birthday next year, all that talk of Jackson Hole and Telluride has me thinking it's probably time to see if she likes alpine gear. While she could care less, we might ski together more if her heels were fixed. She only actually attempts to tele on the gentlest slopes anyway.

I've always assumed alpine boots must be less comfortable than teleboots. I never see telefolk undoing their buckles on the lift or complaining about fit. I could easily sleep in my own boots.

For her the most important criteria is comfort. Whenever we are hiking or doing anything on our feet it's not long before this one toe starts to give her problems. The ONLY pair of footwear she owns that don't cause her a problem are her tele boots. Crispi Lady something or others.

So...we'll rent boots at Gore, one time, with the understanding that she should decide if she likes fixed heeling, NOT the specific boots. Then if she's up for it, I'd like to buy her something supremely comfortable.

In the tele world...Scarpas are for narrow feet, Garmonts for wide. Is there any convention wisdom for alpine boots? Would love to hear recommendations for a Ladies boot for a medium width foot. The emphasis on comfort not performance. While I seem to be pretty cheap, if I could find a boot that would have us skiing together more, I'd buy it, to some extent regardless of cost. Rog if you're out there...you've got experience on both sides tele/alpine...or anyone who knows about alpine boot fit and comfort.
 
Harvey44":3jbm78x0 said:
In the tele world...Scarpas are for narrow feet, Garmonts for wide. Is there any convention wisdom for alpine boots? Would love to hear recommendations for a Ladies boot for a medium width foot. The emphasis on comfort not performance. While I seem to be pretty cheap, if I could find a boot that would have us skiing together more, I'd buy it, to some extent regardless of cost. Rog if you're out there...you've got experience on both sides tele/alpine...or anyone who knows about alpine boot fit and comfort.
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Conventional wisdom nugget #1: Rental boots suck.

Conventional wisdom nugget #2: Buy boots from a competent boot fitter with no preconceptions about brand or model. The boot fitter will be able to match the foot and ability level to the right boot. Ideally, you want a broad line of boots in the shop so they're not forced to "sell you what they have".

Conventional wisdom nugget #3: Competent boot fitters tend to live and work near large ski resorts. They are rarely found in strip mall ski shops in the flatlands. Flatland boot guys tend to put people in a boot that's a size too large. It feels great in the shop but it becomes really sloppy after the liner packs out 4 or 5 days later. You then get foot pain because you have to over-tighten the buckles to get rid of the slop and it drives your foot down into the footbed. With a proper fit, you shouldn't need to buckle the lower buckles any more than it takes to keep them from flopping around.

Conventional wisdom nugget #4: Custom footbeds really help with the quality of the fit. When all else fails, custom injected liners solve all problems.

My observation:
Nordica seems to make a nice line of girly boots that have a system that makes them easier to get in and out of without compromising the performance of the boot. I have no clue whoat kind of foot they work best with.
 
harv!

it's summertime man!!! enough of the ski talk! only 4 more months till the angel $hit starts to fall.

pretty much what jeff said. tele boots are not necessarily more comfortable except for the fact that they are more pleasant to walk in and are generally lighter weight. it's all mentality really. people have been brain impregnated that alpine boots hurt and are supposed to. teleboots are all hippy comfy wanna be my friend nice nice. $hit, i gotta get back to work! surf's been good.

love rog
 
A dissenting point of view comes from Harald Harb, who maintains that 99% of boot fittings actually do more harm than good. His particular beef is with so-called "custom foot beds" and that most bootfitters don't know anything about alignment:
http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2202

He's also a big proponent of foam liners:
http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic ... e27a297d23

And that 90% of all skiers are on boots that are too big:
http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2374

Of course, he maintains that the solution to most of these problems is a visit to a Harb Ski Systems bootfitter. While many claim that it's self-serving for him to bash the competition, his detailed analyses on the subject make me believe that he knows what he's doing. If I have the extra cash next season, I'd love to have one of his people work with me, as I'm positive that my alignment is really messed up.
 
I also agree with all of Geoff's comments. With regard to his last comment about women's boots, at this point I think it's safe to say that any woman with a history of foot discomfort skiing (which clearly applies here) should be in a women's specific boot.

http://www.jeanniethoren.com/ is the guru of helping women with equipment problems. She won a NASJA award for "Outstanding Contribution to the Advancement of Snowsports" at the Telluride meeting in 2004, and had her equipment van there to assist any interested NASJA members. She lives in Minnesota and was at my dinner table at the Lutsen awards banquet this year.

His particular beef is with so-called "custom foot beds"
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I have one of those cork footbeds, and it is unquestionably the best ski equipment purchase I've ever made. How well they work (and I'm sure this applies to the Harb products too) is probably quite dependent upon the competence of the bootfitter. Mine were done by Scott Brooksbank on my first Snowbird trip in 1981 and are still going strong.
 
jamesdeluxe":2okhgwpp said:
A dissenting point of view comes from Harald Harb, who maintains that 99% of boot fittings actually do more harm than good. His particular beef is with so-called "custom foot beds" and that most bootfitters don't know anything about alignment:
http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2202

He's also a big proponent of foam liners:
http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic ... e27a297d23

And that 90% of all skiers are on boots that are too big:
http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2374

Of course, he maintains that the solution to most of these problems is a visit to a Harb Ski Systems bootfitter. While many claim that it's self-serving for him to bash the competition, his detailed analyses on the subject make me believe that he knows what he's doing. If I have the extra cash next season, I'd love to have one of his people work with me, as I'm positive that my alignment is really messed up.
Click to expand...

Exactly how is this a dissenting point of view?
 
Exactly how is this a dissenting point of view?
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Most of it isn't. The tendency of the casual skier to buy boots too big, the need for custom work in many cases to maximize fit are accepted among most bootfitters.

Despite Harb's key contributions to technique and popularizing shaped skis, I do not agree with his footbed comments. He wants the footbed to "give" under the foot, says the cork footbeds are firm and like having a golf ball under your arch. Well, not IMHO. The point of the custom footbed is to conform to the natural shape of the bottom of your foot, supporting the arch to the extent that your leg is correctly aligned. Once you're aligned, you want direct transmission of subtle foot pressures to your ski edge, meaning a solid and not flexible footbed. I did have arch cramps from the footbed when it was new, and still can first run of the day if there's a lot of vibration from hard snow or bumps. But the improvement in ski response was dramatic, and I would not want to be without the footbeds.

The emphasis on comfort not performance.
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This is the recipe for the "90% of skiers being in boots too big." One way to avoid that is to shell test any boot you try on in a shop. Your foot in the shell without the liner should have no more than 2 fingers space behind the heel if toes are just touching the front; one finger is considered a "race fit."
 
I also recommend aftermarket boot heaters for most people in the east. I use Hotronics.

My opinion: A shell that matches your foot combined with a well-crafted custom footbed and a custom liner is the recipe for both comfort and performance. I've been using the now-discontinued Head/San Marco silicon injection custom liners for a long time. The performance and comfort of that setup just can't be duplicated in a stock liner. With my last three ski boots, the only time I had the boots worked on after the initial liner shoot was to replace buckles I tore off in the trees.
 
When you consider boots are the most important piece of equipment you own, it really is worth using a great boot fitter. I have completely custom boots, and have had more work done on my boots than most people (tarsal coalision). Last year I noticed a bit of heel wash, while the rest of my foot was very secure. I went back to my boot fitter and they made the appropriate adjustments for free. It may be hell to put my boots on and to take them off, but I have a very good fitting pair of boots. Oddly enough one of my feet is slightly smaller than the other and has required a lot more work than the other boot. I can only second getting your boots from a reputable boot fitter. However, I don't think everyone needs custom boots like I have, some people have better feet than others.
 
jamesdeluxe":yn5rsb6h said:
Exactly how is this a dissenting point of view?
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As I mentioned up top and Tony elaborated on, Harb's specific beef is with footbeds.
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IMHO footbeds are absolutely necessary for some. My left foot is completely pronated due to a aforementioned tarsal- coalision. I wear custom footbed with my sneakers to avoid knee pain.

I will say, however, that not merely do I have custom footbeds, but I also have a custom foam liner.
 
Skimore let me in on the fact that Intuition liners are made for all types of boots. He swears by them for alpine boots. I have them in my T2s and they are incredible. Anybody else use them?

They seemed pretty easy to custom fit, once you knew what you were doing. I had them done by Inside Edge in Glens Falls. 5 years later they still fit really well and are extremely comfortable.

http://www.intuitionliners.com
 
rfarren":jjk464nj said:
Oddly enough one of my feet is slightly smaller than the other and has required a lot more work than the other boot.
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Actually, this is surprisingly common. I've seen it quite often in rock climbing shoes, which make the "close fit" of ski boots feel like nice, broken in comfortable sneakers.
 
Marc_C":1mdfdt3m said:
rock climbing shoes, which make the "close fit" of ski boots feel like nice, broken in comfortable sneakers.
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I'll second that!
 
Fwiw Harvey44,
Garmont's Endorphin works well for me & my flippers...BUT have ground & stretched my HEAD S11s into a great fit.
Agree about Nordica = a bunch of different lasts.
Her problem-toe: Big, Sixth, or longer middle toe..? (..Hah!..this should pretty much eliminate the confusion here!.... :-D )
Her boot size? (I have some 24.5 Head S11s(101mm forefoot)...worn ~2hrs = mint...if they'd fit, she can have em'...just S&H .. :dead horse: )

$.01
SteveD
 
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