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why bump skiers rule

Seek and dispense advice regarding snowsports technique at The Ski School.

re: why bump skiers rule

Postby JimG. » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:58 am

Hey Ryan, glad to see you still have a job!

It's hard to be unreceptive to Dan's book...it speaks the truth.
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Re: re: why bump skiers rule

Postby Dan DiPiro » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:29 am

Ryan wrote:Well... this one is particularly for Dan.

As promised about 2 months agon in here I purchased and read the book. I have not commented on it since because I wanted to try to apply it to my own skiing and I only have one thing to say... ROCK ON.


I have found a balance and stability that I have been wanting for a long time. At this point i have been working this for about 12-15 ski days so I think that I am far enough along that I can comment safely but I still have more work to do.
As for the beginning drills sescribed in the book I have been applying them to not only bump lessons but to all rotory work as well. I teach based on the Balance, Edging, Rotory, and Pressure model and use this in a sequential manner with my 8 week groups to have a system to work from. I seems to keep the continuity of student development pretty balanced. On my rotory weeks I have added in your drills and have been having some pretty sweet success so far. This way when I take these same students into the bumps in a couple of weeks (they are level 4-6 skiers for the most part) I think that the transition will be a lot easier because the groomer drills will already be familiar. I know that a lot of people that are involved with PSIA would see this as a conflict but I don't. I have also been talking to my Boss as well as the rest of the higher-ups in my ski school and for some reason they seem to be much more receptive to this now. I think that IMHO there is the beginnings of a swing in PSIA mentality when it comes to the bumps. Lets all just hope so.


That's music to my ears, Ryan. Really glad to know that you find my book useful. These mogul-specific techniques really do work, and the surprising thing for many is that the techniques are not especially difficult to execute (as mogul myths would have it) once you know what they are. Thanks for buying my book. And thanks for letting me know about your results.

I hope you're right about the PSIA opening itself up to some new ideas about mogul skiing. Time will tell, I guess. Please keep me updated as you continue your skiing and teaching in the bumps!

-Dan D.
"Everything the Instructors Never Told You About Mogul Skiing"
A how-to book by Dan DiPiro

http://www.LearnMoguls.com
http://www.mogulskiing.blogspot.com
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re: why bump skiers rule

Postby JimG. » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:37 am

I know this will get us nowhere, but I really got amped up this past weekend again:

http://www.huntermtn.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1881

Greg did a nice job with kids who are still learning to ski bumps...they all skiied great on Saturday bacause they were given the tools to succeed, most important some nice smooth tight bumps that weren't too intimidating.

I just can't stand it much longer.
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Re: re: why bump skiers rule

Postby Dan DiPiro » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:44 pm

JimG. wrote:I know this will get us nowhere, but I really got amped up this past weekend again:

http://www.huntermtn.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1881

Greg did a nice job with kids who are still learning to ski bumps...they all skiied great on Saturday bacause they were given the tools to succeed, most important some nice smooth tight bumps that weren't too intimidating.

I just can't stand it much longer.


JimG... representing at Hunter!
You're fighting the good fight, Jim.
-Dan D
"Everything the Instructors Never Told You About Mogul Skiing"
A how-to book by Dan DiPiro

http://www.LearnMoguls.com
http://www.mogulskiing.blogspot.com
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Re: re: why bump skiers rule

Postby JimG. » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:09 am

Dan DiPiro wrote:
JimG. wrote:I know this will get us nowhere, but I really got amped up this past weekend again:

http://www.huntermtn.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1881

Greg did a nice job with kids who are still learning to ski bumps...they all skiied great on Saturday bacause they were given the tools to succeed, most important some nice smooth tight bumps that weren't too intimidating.

I just can't stand it much longer.


JimG... representing at Hunter!
You're fighting the good fight, Jim.
-Dan D


Well, it's been a week since I sent this. Greg and the freestyle coaches made it a point to say thanks this past weekend.

Management? Not a word.

Anyone surprised?
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re: why bump skiers rule

Postby jsul185 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:26 pm

I have been trying to follow this post in regards to shoulder supression. First of all I have never been able to use my shoulders to shift my weight on to the downhill ski.
Recently, I have been attempted to shift my shoulders laterally on to my down hill ski. When I attempt to shift I simutaneously tuck one knee behind the other and reach with the pole. I reach up and out, commit down hill, and try to get my hips up. As a result, I attempt to shift my shoulders to initiate the new downhill ski. So I reach up and out with my poles. Point being I don't understand shoulder suppression? Let me be clear, I am not questioning the validilty of shoulder supression. I do not use my shoulders properly when I ski. How can a skier suppress his/her shoulder when you reach up and out ( up and out being my novice term) for the back side of the bump. :?: Stay in the bumps 8)
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re: why bump skiers rule

Postby JimG. » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:24 am

I'm still playing around with the shoulder suppression too. Here's what I've noticed:

1) It's an ideal posture that keeps the arms and elbows more contained near the body but still allows for driving the hands down the fall line. Think of it more as pinching the lats and triceps together and less as a static, upper arms pinned to the body image.

2) Are you watching how short bumpers poles are getting? I'm 6'2" and used 48" poles last season. I dropped down to 46" this year, but once I started playing with this technique those were too long also. I bought adjustable poles and started at 44" and have played with 42-43" also. Shoulder suppression is easier to maintain with much shorter poles.

3) When I'm skiing well and keeping my arms contained, I stand up straighter, look further down the fall line, and almost never get in the backseat. I think a big part of that is the shorter poles too.

I had a hard time understanding this too, and the first attempt someone made to explain it to me came out as "keep your elbows pinned to your torso" and that just didn't work for me at all. That's not what shoulder suppression is though. It's more subtle than that, again think of it as pinching the triceps against the lats and maintaining that "pinch" as you ski.
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Re: re: why bump skiers rule

Postby cj » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:20 am

JimG. wrote:I'm still playing around with the shoulder suppression too. Here's what I've noticed:

1) It's an ideal posture that keeps the arms and elbows more contained near the body but still allows for driving the hands down the fall line. Think of it more as pinching the lats and triceps together and less as a static, upper arms pinned to the body image.

2) Are you watching how short bumpers poles are getting? I'm 6'2" and used 48" poles last season. I dropped down to 46" this year, but once I started playing with this technique those were too long also. I bought adjustable poles and started at 44" and have played with 42-43" also. Shoulder suppression is easier to maintain with much shorter poles.

3) When I'm skiing well and keeping my arms contained, I stand up straighter, look further down the fall line, and almost never get in the backseat. I think a big part of that is the shorter poles too.

I had a hard time understanding this too, and the first attempt someone made to explain it to me came out as "keep your elbows pinned to your torso" and that just didn't work for me at all. That's not what shoulder supression is though. It's more subtle than that, again think of it as pinching the triceps against the lats and maintaining that "pinch" as you ski.


Man Jim, what a great explanation! Right on with everything you said. Funny, I cut my poles even more the other day. The only thing that I have found with going really short is that you can't plant on the flats when doing drills, but 6-8" shorter than your regular pole size (the old upside down and under the basket way) is a probably a good middle ground(?). Sounds to me like you are really getting it! Shoulder supression is hard to explain without showing someone in person.

Jsul185,

Another thing to add to Jim's explanation is that this is not meant to be a restrictive thing, but a keeping the upper body tight (no chicken winging and arms flailing) and quiet thing. Watch some video of the Fins, as they invented this technique. There elbows do get slightly away from the body, because they need to counter with the opposite hand down the hill (plus mogul skiing is very dynamic, particullarly when adding lateral absorbtion as the Fins do). This technique helps you get balanced over the downhill ski and helps prevent you from skiing by your pole and keeps the hands driving down the hill. It will also give the upper body a more relaxed feel. I suggest that you go to the Mogul Logic website and in the University section there is a glossary of terms and it briefly explains suppression (also has to do with settlinging into your center of mass which is right below the belly button, and pulling down with the shoulders). It is a somewhat subtle thing, but if you watch the video footage on that website of Sami Mustonen, you will see the suppression as he is stacked over the downhill ski (his skiing in that video is a thing of beauty).

You probably already know this, but since we are on the subject of body position and shoulders, the shoulders should stay level, square, and quiet... which is one of the purposes of suppression. Good deal with the lead change and tucking the downhill knee behind the uphill one... that is good stuff.

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Re: re: why bump skiers rule

Postby JimG. » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:44 am

cj wrote:I cut my poles even more the other day. The only thing that I have found with going really short is that you can't plant on the flats when doing drills, but 6-8" shorter than your regular pole size (the old upside down and under the basket way) is a probably a good middle ground(?).
cj


Get some adjustable poles and it's a non-issue. Shorter for bumps, longer for flats and drills.
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re: why bump skiers rule

Postby jsul185 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:57 pm

I checked out the Mogul Logic website. I have watched Chuck Martins video but that website is great. The Sami video is interesting how he bends his kness laterally across his body. My interest in shoulder suppression is because I tend to leave my ski pole behind my body after a pole plant and I don't counter let along early initiation. I am currently reaching up and out with some success but I end up like CJ said;[QUOTE]

I have a better understand of shoulder suppression when I think of it as being stacked and contained. [QUOTE]

Should be some sweet bumps for the next couple of weeks. :lol:
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Re: re: why bump skiers rule

Postby JimG. » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:47 pm

jsul185 wrote:I have a better understand of shoulder suppression when I think of it as being stacked and contained.

Should be some sweet bumps for the next couple of weeks. :lol:


I think you grasp the essentials of it when you think of being "stacked and contained". Nice upright posture, nothing seems capable of putting you in the backseat, no arm flailing, no leaving your pole touch behind you.

I've spent so much time on my upper body that I've noticed my legs coming apart, so now I've got to spend time correcting that. I'll bet once that's fixed I'll be skiing with my goggles under my chin to keep my head up and not peek to see if my legs are pinned together.

It's always something!

And here's to the coming sweet bump lines :D !!
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Re: re: why bump skiers rule

Postby Admin » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:51 pm

JimG. wrote:It's always something!


Guess that's why I don't ski bumps, or pretty much care about my technique flaws at all. :lol:
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Re: re: why bump skiers rule

Postby cj » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:50 pm

Admin wrote:
JimG. wrote:It's always something!


Guess that's why I don't ski bumps, or pretty much care about my technique flaws at all. :lol:


Definately! I don't think I have ever met a bump skier (pros included) that is overall happy with their skiing. That is just part of the sport... you are always finding ways to improve, no matter how good you are... just part of the sickness.

Skiing bumps is like being addicted to crack, you are never totally satisfied and definately can't get enough. But being high off of a good run or a good day justifies all of the other struggles, like when you are trying conquer that technical demon.

BTW, is is awesome to see folks talk about the technical aspects of mogul skiing here.

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re: why bump skiers rule

Postby JimG. » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:26 pm

So glad I love bumps...been waiting for a decent powder day all season and it just isn't happening for me. At this point, my best shot is to wait until Jay or someplace close to there gets hammered, get in the car at midnight, drive up, ski, go home.

Sounds stupid because it is.

And now it's 70 degrees here in NY. Am I bummed? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cause I know the bumps are going to be soft and sweet all weekend. Bring it on baby!!
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Re: re: why bump skiers rule

Postby cj » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:33 pm

JimG. wrote:So glad I love bumps...been waiting for a decent powder day all season and it just isn't happening for me. At this point, my best shot is to wait until Jay or someplace close to there gets hammered, get in the car at midnight, drive up, ski, go home.

Sounds stupid because it is.

And now it's 70 degrees here in NY. Am I bummed? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cause I know the bumps are going to be soft and sweet all weekend. Bring it on baby!!


You got that right! I second that! Some of the best days are skiing nice soft spring bumps on a 60+ degree day! The spring is a love hate thing for me... I love spring bump skiing, but I hate that the snow is melting and that the end of the season is around the corner.

Looks like it will be in the high 60's in PA this weekend, but I already know which line I am going to ski this weekend, since it was pretty nice on Wednesday. I am psyched!

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