remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smith

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remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smith

Postby joegm » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:43 pm

we have a buddy from momentum camp, dave leon ( an older guy like us who lives for bumps !!!!) , from south africa who now lives in Australia and comes out to john smarts camp in whistler for a few days each year in the summer . well dave's son who is a freestyle skier, used to be roomates with dale begg smith, currently on WC for australia. they are still good friends. i just saw dale won the world cup this week in germany. it's on skidebosses.com. dave showed us some video of dale this summer...we always hook up with dave for a couple of days when we are not in camp and pick his brain, which , logically extended, is dale begg smiths brain :wink: . i would have to say , i love dale as a potential gold in italy this year....there is something a little different about this guy's turns... he just seems to have a slightly different style to his turns than janne does or jeremy does. man can this guy burn turns :shock: .
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Re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smith

Postby cj » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:26 pm

joegm wrote:we have a buddy from momentum camp, dave leon ( an older guy like us who lives for bumps !!!!) , from south africa who now lives in Australia and comes out to john smarts camp in whistler for a few days each year in the summer . well dave's son who is a freestyle skier, used to be roomates with dale begg smith, currently on WC for australia. they are still good friends. i just saw dale won the world cup this week in germany. it's on skidebosses.com. dave showed us some video of dale this summer...we always hook up with dave for a couple of days when we are not in camp and pick his brain, which , logically extended, is dale begg smiths brain :wink: . i would have to say , i love dale as a potential gold in italy this year....there is something a little different about this guy's turns... he just seems to have a slightly different style to his turns than janne does or jeremy does. man can this guy burn turns :shock: .


This kinda got me thinking... I wonder how Sergei Shupletsov would have stacked up in today's environment? I think that his style changed mogul skiing and the Fins definately have a similar style, probably derived from him. If he were still around, it would have made for a really spectacular show with him against Janne for the past several years. However, he probably would have retired after the 02 Olympics where he would have been around 32 years old.

What do you guys think?

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re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smith

Postby HDHaller » Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:38 pm

Yeah, Dale Begg Smith. But don't forget the Americans! Mayer, Cabral, Roberts and others. Bloom might be distracted by NFL dreams. We'll see how the trials go in Steamboat tomorrow, though.
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re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smith

Postby joegm » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:25 pm

mayer is an animal... he that the year off and i think it did him good.. his airs look pretty spot on to me so far. my opinion was he should have had the gold over janne in 02 as i thought his turns were a little bit better. not that i don't love janne, but i think in 02 mayer just beat him out with the turns and lost it in the air. i did hear something about mayer though that about a year ago he blew a stop sign in ny state and killed a woman in another car. anyone know anything about that? is mayer hooked up with chuck and logic cd?
cd posted about sergie shupletsov in a different post. i saw some film of sergie a couple of years ago in a video review seesion at sms with a coach named chris rybeck out of co. rybeck was a non- rock star who never made the us team but was probably the best coach i have ever had with smart.
he was all over sergie's style and kept showing us the knee angles and absorption sergie would get on that film were insane, plus you can see it a little in his short cip in fistful of moguls also. this was just around the time we were just getting into the tyechnical aspects of mogul skiing and probably didn't totally understand what chris was trying to show us. but i can appreciate it now.
another old schooler that i really like is / was jean juc brassard. super big angles and the only guy i ever saw to consistently try and throw the double cossack...that makes him cool right there :P
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re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smith

Postby joegm » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:35 pm

cd pointed out that the wc seems to be all over the place this year with no clear pattern emerging.. i seem to agree with that.. i'm also wondering how shannon bahrke is gonna come back from breaking her face :roll: last year on that flip
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re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smith

Postby HDHaller » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:22 am

Anyone watch the Gold Cup trial event this weekend? Bloom and Kearney are in. And did you see Mayer?!?!? Fractions of a point behind Bloom. Do you remember how he called Bloom his "media blocker" in 2002. I can see the same thing happeneing in 2006. The media will focus on Bloom and the football thing, do a million stories on it, make a very big deal of it, and Mayer will sneak in quietly behind Bloom and kick tail again. Of course, Mayer still has to secure his Olympic spot, but I think he's as good as in.
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Re: re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smit

Postby cj » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:56 am

HDHaller wrote:Anyone watch the Gold Cup trial event this weekend? Bloom and Kearney are in. And did you see Mayer?!?!? Fractions of a point behind Bloom. Do you remember how he called Bloom his "media blocker" in 2002. I can see the same thing happeneing in 2006. The media will focus on Bloom and the football thing, do a million stories on it, make a very big deal of it, and Mayer will sneak in quietly behind Bloom and kick tail again. Of course, Mayer still has to secure his Olympic spot, but I think he's as good as in.
-HDH


Yup. Bloom really laid it down. It is kinda good though, because he would have definately been the coaches disgression pick if he did not make it any other way (yeah, like that would happen). Amazing how he landed the one air in the back seat but he is so strong that you could not even tell, since he was able to keep his knees together and just ski right out. Kearney is on fire... it is nice to see some east coast representation. And how about Tim Preston in fifth among that company. Congrats to Nick Preston and his 2 successes in this comp.

It will be intersting to see if Bloom can live up to all of the hype for the games. When I was talking to Pierre Russeau this summer, he said that the major difference at the upper echelon is all mental. He said that is why Janne has been so successful, because metally he is a rock.

Who ever wins will have earned it, that's for sure. This is going to be the best olympics yet, IMO. I am psyched!

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Re: re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smit

Postby HDHaller » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:29 am

cj wrote:
HDHaller wrote:Anyone watch the Gold Cup trial event this weekend? Bloom and Kearney are in. And did you see Mayer?!?!? Fractions of a point behind Bloom. Do you remember how he called Bloom his "media blocker" in 2002. I can see the same thing happeneing in 2006. The media will focus on Bloom and the football thing, do a million stories on it, make a very big deal of it, and Mayer will sneak in quietly behind Bloom and kick tail again. Of course, Mayer still has to secure his Olympic spot, but I think he's as good as in.
-HDH


Yup. Bloom really laid it down. It is kinda good though, because he would have definately been the coaches disgression pick if he did not make it any other way (yeah, like that would happen). Amazing how he landed the one air in the back seat but he is so strong that you could not even tell, since he was able to keep his knees together and just ski right out. Kearney is on fire... it is nice to see some east coast representation. And how about Tim Preston in fifth among that company. Congrats to Nick Preston and his 2 successes in this comp.

It will be intersting to see if Bloom can live up to all of the hype for the games. When I was talking to Pierre Russeau this summer, he said that the major difference at the upper echelon is all mental. He said that is why Janne has been so successful, because metally he is a rock.

Who ever wins will have earned it, that's for sure. This is going to be the best olympics yet, IMO. I am psyched!

cj


CJ,
You do know mogul skiing. Good to know you and others like you are out there.
-HDH
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Re: re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smit

Postby cj » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:10 pm

CJ,
You do know mogul skiing. Good to know you and others like you are out there.
-HDH[/quote]

I just wish that I would have been as serious about bump skiing when I was in high school, instead of playing catch up in my 20's and now in my 30's.

I am sure there are many others out there like the few folks that are around here, they just need to surface and support the sport in any way that they can. The more demand for moguls, the better the supply.

Later,

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re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smith

Postby cj » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:03 pm

Did anyone see the results of the last WC? Looks like Janne is back and came in 3rd. Bloom had 2nd and Bilodeau of Canada had 1st. And something like 4th-7th were all US.

The only male that seems to be consistent is Bloom, but he also has some competition on any given day. This is shaping up to be a very competitive and interesting season. Now, what will the olympics bring?

Thoughts?

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Re: re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smit

Postby HDHaller » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:51 am

cj wrote: Looks like Janne is back and came in 3rd. ...
cj


...and now he's grabbed a second-place finish, right? Deer Valley? He's still awesome. Don't count him out, either.
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Re: re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smit

Postby cj » Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:56 am

"
...and now he's grabbed a second-place finish, right? Deer Valley? He's still awesome. Don't count him out, either.



Yup. It is going to be a great show. Right now it is Bloom and Dawson for the US, and I bet Mayer gets in. So who will be the 4th... Cabral or Roberts? I guess Babic or Westerlund could squeak in there if they do really well this weekend.

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re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smith

Postby cj » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:40 am

Well, I just got back from the WC at Whiteface where Dale Begg-Smith won both events. I must say that after seeing him ski in person, IMO he is one of the best technical skiers in the world. He skis with a really soft touch and is so early on his turns and absorption that he doesn't pound as much as most of the guys, and thus stays balanced all the time. I think that is what makes him faster too.

I saw Jeremy Bloom practice and I must say the same about him, but his airs are just rediculous. In practice his airs were so huge and he is unbelievably fast, even at that level. I have not really been on his band wagon too much, simply because I think there are a lot of great skiers on the WC, but after seeing him ski this past weekend (I saw him ski at Whistler this past summer, but he was mostly doing drills) I am a believer and am buying into all the hype. If he doesn't make any mistakes in Torino, he will probably win gold.

I did not get to see Janne ski, but I rode the lift up with Marko Mustonen (the Finland coach) and he said Janne was there but resting and doing physical training to prepare for Torino. Sorry, I forgot to ask him about shoulder suppression.

I think one of the most impressive runs of the weekend was Kari Traa's on Sunday. When she came out of the start she looked like she was gonna lay it down and she did. I think she kind of psyched Heil out, because Heil only threw a heli on the top. If she skis like that in Torino, she will most likely win gold again. Hannah Kearny was an animal, but had some errors. If she skis without mistakes, she has got a great shot at gold too.

Sami Mustonen had a great run yesterday as well, for 2nd and I think that it was really close between him and Begg-Smith.

My observations from what I witnessed this weekend on what were 2 dramatically different courses, between 40 degrees and rainy on Friday and 20 degrees and icy on Sunday: I think it is going to ba a showdown between Janne, Bloom, and Begg-Smith in Torino. For the ladies it will be between Jen Heil, Kari Traa, and Hannah Kearny.

We all know that things happen in competition to keep it interesting, and anyone can slide in due to mistakes, etc, but this should prove to be a great olympics. We shall see.

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re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smith

Postby joegm » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:55 pm

Good stuff cj. Good analysis? I?ve never seen a wc live , but hope to see the national at Killington in march.
I?ve had computer problems for a couple of days and have not been posting..
I was able to record the deer valley event on tv from the week before where dawson took it and dale got second.
I don?t know if you have had a chance to get dale begg smith on film and break it down , but like I posted a while ago , there is something different about this kid?s turns?I?ve never seen anyone make turns like this guy. He?s gonna win the gold medal in turin. I?m going on the record right now
Arguing about whether dale , of janne or toby or bloomer is ? the best ? can get a little silly. It?s like whose better manny or barry bonds?..
But there is something different about dale. I like the fact that he skis about a second slower and makes better turns. That?s one of the reason why I almost like watching the women better. I can relate to the girls turns.. I can?t relate to janne or bloom when they are in the middle section staircasing cause I can?t ski like that and if I tried to , I would kill myself?To me , bumps skiing is turns.. I know air is an important aspect, but turns are 50% of the score for a reason.
The week before lake placid , in deer valley is a perfect example of speed hurting someone. Nate skied a line and threw one of the most ridiculous back flips off the bottom air I have ever seen in terms of height and distance ( would that be called amplitude to borrow a term from the knuckle draggers!!! ) but he launched himself so hard, that, in our opinion, after breaking down the film in slow mo, he gives himself little shot to stomp it and really be on the skis for the bottom turns. A real tactical error for a guy trying to get the bid on the team for turin I would say. His turns on the bottom third after the jump were exposed? and I think the judges hammered him on it.
I think janne is skiing too fast.. but I think most of them are skiing to fast at the sacrifice of the turn. Dale isn?t, in my opinion, and neither is dawson.. in 2002 I thought mayer skied fast enough to win with the turns he made, in fact I think he should have won. And believe me , I?m not trashing janne, I love janne. But I think he is giving up turns for speed?.and too me, turns are more important.
I?ve been in love with kari traa since I first saw her? and she skis pretty good too!!!!seriously though , I?m glad you though she looked good , she took a nasty digger in deer valley on the bottom jump, but she seems to still be there even though she is getting older? heil should have won the deer valley comp ahead of roarke. Although I have to give it up to roarke cause when they were interviewing her on national tv after she won, she was giving it up for ? mogul skiing ? . what a refreshing change ? someone actually acknowledging that ? moguls skiers do in fact rule ?
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Re: re: remember this name for turin, italy- dale begg smit

Postby cj » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:50 am

joegm wrote:Good stuff cj. Good analysis? I?ve never seen a wc live , but hope to see the national at Killington in march.
I?ve had computer problems for a couple of days and have not been posting..
I was able to record the deer valley event on tv from the week before where dawson took it and dale got second.
I don?t know if you have had a chance to get dale begg smith on film and break it down , but like I posted a while ago , there is something different about this kid?s turns?I?ve never seen anyone make turns like this guy. He?s gonna win the gold medal in turin. I?m going on the record right now
Arguing about whether dale , of janne or toby or bloomer is ? the best ? can get a little silly. It?s like whose better manny or barry bonds?..
But there is something different about dale. I like the fact that he skis about a second slower and makes better turns. That?s one of the reason why I almost like watching the women better. I can relate to the girls turns.. I can?t relate to janne or bloom when they are in the middle section staircasing cause I can?t ski like that and if I tried to , I would kill myself?To me , bumps skiing is turns.. I know air is an important aspect, but turns are 50% of the score for a reason.
The week before lake placid , in deer valley is a perfect example of speed hurting someone. Nate skied a line and threw one of the most ridiculous back flips off the bottom air I have ever seen in terms of height and distance ( would that be called amplitude to borrow a term from the knuckle draggers!!! ) but he launched himself so hard, that, in our opinion, after breaking down the film in slow mo, he gives himself little shot to stomp it and really be on the skis for the bottom turns. A real tactical error for a guy trying to get the bid on the team for turin I would say. His turns on the bottom third after the jump were exposed? and I think the judges hammered him on it.
I think janne is skiing too fast.. but I think most of them are skiing to fast at the sacrifice of the turn. Dale isn?t, in my opinion, and neither is dawson.. in 2002 I thought mayer skied fast enough to win with the turns he made, in fact I think he should have won. And believe me , I?m not trashing janne, I love janne. But I think he is giving up turns for speed?.and too me, turns are more important.
I?ve been in love with kari traa since I first saw her? and she skis pretty good too!!!!seriously though , I?m glad you though she looked good , she took a nasty digger in deer valley on the bottom jump, but she seems to still be there even though she is getting older? heil should have won the deer valley comp ahead of roarke. Although I have to give it up to roarke cause when they were interviewing her on national tv after she won, she was giving it up for ? mogul skiing ? . what a refreshing change ? someone actually acknowledging that ? moguls skiers do in fact rule ?


I have the Deer Valley comp on tape, but have only watched it once. I will go back and watch it again. As for DBS, I think what makes his turns so good is that he applies ALL of the technical stuff that he was taught. He is early on his downhill ski, always has great shin pressure, and most of all he is early on his absorption and is able to ski with great touch and never gets out of balance. Plus he gets great purchase all of the time. I think Travis Mayer is another one who skis with great technique and is really early.

Janne and Bloom are great athletic skiers, and IMO can thus ski faster and go bigger. After watching Bloom ski in practice, I was amazed at how fast and big he went... and that was just in practice!

Roberts was going huge in Placid too, and unfortunately the announcers were using the knuckle dragger term "amplitude". I think that term is here to stay, because I heard it used this summer at camp also... oh well.

I am going to WP for camp in Feb and I will ask Chuck exactly what the deal is with DBS' turns... but I am pretty sure it is because he is so early with everything, that he gets such good ski to snow contact and doesn't pound the bumps nearly as much. Plus he gets really good knee angle because all of the other technical aspects are nearly perfect. I will report back, but I bet that his skiing starts being used a lot as the technical standard for video analysis.

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