La Grave, 3/6/08

Tony Crocker

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Staff member
A listless crew headed up La Grave into weather predicted to be similar to the previous day at Serre Chevalier. But it was -10C at 10,500 feet, and more importantly clear blue sky with no wind.

So after a 2,600 vertical warmup(?) run through some dust over chalk/crust to the P2, Extremely Canadian had another adventure in store for us.

La Grave has a glacier poma going up to 11,600. From the top of that poma a 5 minute hike leads to a plateau where Les Deux Alpes' top surface lift is visible just west. On the backside facing south is a steep drop into a valley that drains 18km due west to the town of St. Christophe.

This direct line was burned off, so we skated and traversed west just past the Deux Alpes lift and then into a southwest facing bowl. The bowl had soft chalk up high, then a thin layer of powder over a frozen subsurface.

But as the pitch steepened the surface softened and eventually we regrouped at 9,100 feet at the top of the Rama Couloir. It was now a bit after noon and the Extremely Canadian guides had timed the run so the couloir was facing direct sun. So we had a perfectly softened surface, which was fortunate because the Rama Couloir is 1,700 vertical, average maybe 30 degrees and 15 feet wide with a couple of sections barely a ski length wide that had to be sideslipped.

After a short break at 7,400 we had a long icy traverse on the shady and icy side of the valley for about 10km and 1000 vertical. Then a cross to the sunny side, a few sketchy sections, cross the stream at a dam, and finally a 500 vertical hike down to St. Christophe, arriving 3:15PM.

Now of course another 4 course gourmet lunch and eventually a 45 minute bus back to La Grave.
 
Wow! That's another great line.

I did not want to post a pic/description, but I thought this one was pretty exceptional.

Coloir Rama
Vertical drop: 1 400 m
Facing: South
Technical difficulty: Very serious. Risk of slippping on hardpacked snow.Attention for windslabs on the traverse just before the couloir.

Technical difficulty: Ver serious. The deep connection that lures one to a place like Vallon de la Selle goes beyond anything that modern society has an explanation for. Pointing out Le Rama couloir is what a skier would witness is a run that will romance its visitors into letting go their common ideas and giving into what she (the mountain) offered.

Her steeps intimidate you, but then she softens the blow with a bowl of open velvet corn snow that pulls you back to Earth. Her alpine is pristine so desolate,,,, so vast; you find yourself gawking at her glaciated slopes as they sparkle in the sun. The top part is a wide open bowls that flow on to the valley below into the steep Rama couloir that could require a rappel and good route finding skills. A must.
Rama.jpg
 
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Stuff like this is why I must get to La Grave someday before I'm too old to enjoy it.
 
I have to admit I’m very impressed with anyone who can ski that sort of stuff. My question is, is it fun. I don’t mind skiing a run with a high pucker factor once and while. To spend an entire vacation skiing runs that if you fall you die must wear you down. Kinda like being a cop in the South Bronx at first it is exciting but you become a basket case if you do it to long.
 
Did anyone at EC take video of Tony? The only visuals I've seen of him are in the hot tub at the Blow Sam and eating lunch at Sundance.

And I'm in Jason's camp on this one. I almost wet my pants at Lech when I ended up in a sidecountry line like that.
 
jamesdeluxe":32sess4x said:
Did anyone at EC take video of Tony? The only visuals I've seen of him are in the hot tub at the Blow Sam and eating lunch at Sundance.
I believe there is one of him taking a two hours lunch with wine on a terrace on a uphill chalet somewhere at Serre-Chevalier.
 
The pictures make Rama look scarier than La Voute. It was not because:
1) It was not as steep, probably a consistent 30 degrees.
2) The timing for sun-softening was perfect. That was the best snow surface I saw all week.

Rama is narrower, but the other factors were more important. The tougher parts of that day were the 10km icy traverse, and the 500 vert walk down to the village in ski boots when I was already tired.

My question is, is it fun. I don’t mind skiing a run with a high pucker factor once and while. To spend an entire vacation skiing runs that if you fall you die must wear you down.
Very valid questions.

1) There is a mental aspect to this stuff (I think we had a thread somewhere) and the 100% concentration and full commitment demanded can be part of the attraction. For those of you who have seen Steep it's the entire attraction for those guys. Our guide Joe expressed his enthusiasm for La Grave similarly. "It's all about the terrain. More important than the powder. I'd rather be skiing here than anywhere in the world."

2) The rest of us lesser mortals must answer these questions differently. On skis, the positives outweight the negatives for me. I'm somewhat acrophobic without skis on. The last day cabled rock climb up Via Ferrata outside Briancon made me more uncomfortable than any of the skiing. The concentration part gets you to overcome the fear and I did OK, but I'm not looking to pursue rock climbing further.

3) That's the way Tina was in the 2 couloirs. She got down, but she was very scared and said she would definitely not do this trip again. Extremely Canadian deserves some kudos here. First that Joe took over and did both of them one-on-one with her, taking over psychologically as well as being close enough to save her when she fell. As on my other 3 EC experiences, I've been below average in ski ability, and they will tailor both the difficulty of the skiing and how closely you will be supervised by how they evaluate your capabilities. If you are unsure of those capabilities, Extremely Canadian will help you find and expand them.

4) Does it wear you down? The La Voute day was 8,800 vertical and the Rama day was 9,400. Obviously it's intense skiing, and the muscles that ache at the end of the day are not necessarily those you would expect. Physically is it any harder than chasing admin and Bob Dangerous around Alta for twice as much vertical? Probably not. Mentally, see the other 3 points above.

Stuff like this is why I must get to La Grave someday before I'm too old to enjoy it.
Since admin is 12 years younger than I, he's probably capable for at least 20 more years. Same goes for Patrick.

I would probably not repeat a whole week at La Grave, as I've barely scratched the surface of European skiing. If I were in the area with flexibility and knew the snow was good, I'd try to see if Joe was available for a guided day. La Voute in powder would be a mind-blowing experience. I would try to incorporate a day or two guided backcountry skiing on any future European ski vacation.

Did anyone at EC take video of Tony?
Only on the glacier. Picture taking was discouraged during the more intense part of the skiing. I have a few stills from Rama. I forgot the camera the day of La Voute, but they would not have wanted me using it much. One of the Brits took a few pics with his cell/camera. I'll make the Patrick apology now for any delay on pics.
 
I would love someday to try some terrain like this, but it does seem a bit hairy! I suppose a prospective skier should try a steep camp somewhere in North America for a few days to figure out if this would really be for him.

Personally, I like the idea of european ski vacation in Italy. I'm fluent in italian so that would make it easier to get around unhampered. I suppose the food, wine, and culture would be unique for the alps. Although, in europe, towns that are 25km apart have uniquely different cultures and often speak different dialects( at least in Italy). The terrain and snow quality might be lacking compared to some of the ski regions in the more northerly alps, but I feel that wouldn't be too much of a detriment to the entire experience. It would be a european trip with some skiing as opposed to a ski trip in europe.
 
rfarren":j6myxxaj said:
I'm fluent in italian so that would make it easier to get around unhampered.

I've gone on record that a Euro trip (if you can manage to avoid peak-season crowds) is the coolest winter experience... period. And if you speak the target language fluently -- mine are French and German -- you're double-$$$.
 
I suppose a prospective skier should try a steep camp somewhere in North America for a few days to figure out if this would really be for him.
This is the mainstay of Extremely Canadian's business at Whistler/Blackcomb. They offer 3 two-day clinics per week from mid-December to late April. In many cases the clinic instructors may have also gone on the World Tours and would probably give you an opinion on how you would like them. Cara Dolan, with whom I skied like crap in Las Lenas, still thought I would like La Grave.

And if you speak the target language fluently -- mine are French and German -- you're double-$$$.
Yes. I'm wondering if I should try to resuscitate my high school French in retirement. I can still read about half of what I see, but can understand very little that is spoken.
 
My fiancee' speaks french fairly fluently, but not fully. However, she doesn't ski to a level at which I would feel comfortable taking her to a place like chamonix. However, she is very enthusiastic about skiing, so maybe I could get her private lessons for the week.
 
Espace Killy is on my short list. Those pics are quite inspiring, though those guys did more hiking that I could.

Finally pics from Vallon de la Selle and Le Rama Couloir.

Walking above top of La Grave's glacier poma:
030608_hike.JPG


View down into the top of that 18km drainage.
030608_topvalley.JPG


View from nearly 12,000 feet:
030608_top2alpes.JPG


Skiing Le Rama:
030608_uprama.JPG

030608_downrama.jpg


Resting after Le Rama:
030608_reststop.JPG


Joe watches as Tina emerges from bottom of Le Rama:
030608_joe_tina.JPG
 
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More pics, lower section of Le Rama:
030608_viewrama.JPG


The long, shaded and mostly frozen granular traverse:
030608_traverse1.JPG


A narrow spot:
030608_traverse2.JPG


Finally into the sun:
030608_lowervalley.JPG


End of skiing at the dam:
030608_damcross.JPG


Lunch spot in St. Christophe:
030608_stchristophe.JPG


Relaxing in St. Christophe:
030608_brits.JPG
 
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Tony (or others),

Currently in the initial planning and thoughts for a proposed Feb 2012 trip to La Grave with my brother (skiing wise) and wife (she'd not be skiing at la grave!). Have read these couple of TR's, perused the Skiers Lodge web site. Any thoughts on logistics? I'm looking at a two week trip in total (one skiing, one touristy in Paris or with relatives in Germany or etc...), possibly flying through Germany as I have some relatives there. Also the sister of my wife's best friend is in Grenoble; for a possible nearby in/out of the region lodging option... I know many think CDG is an awful airport, how about logistics through Frankfurt or Munich? I'm thinking a euro-rail pass may be a good choice as well? At least down/back to Grenoble? Not sure on renting a car if it's going to sit for a week at skiers lodge or etc...

Any thoughts to help rough out potential overall logistics? Is La Grave itself worth an entire week I assume? Tony, I assume you did the daily option with them for a few days? How about skis? Rent them and just bring the boots? Interestingly while I've been to decent swaths of Europe (northern mostly and quite a while ago though), I've never skied in Europe.

Thanks,
Kevin
 
EMSC":2my1ng4a said:
I know many think CDG is an awful airport, how about logistics through Frankfurt or Munich?
Geneva is the best gateway airport for anywhere in the French Alps, plus the western Swiss places like Verbier. Munich is a good gateway for Austria, Frankfurt is a long haul from the Alps. CDG is obnoxious if you're changing planes there. If you're staying in Paris, then going to the Alps by train or car you should be OK.

EMSC":2my1ng4a said:
Also the sister of my wife's best friend is in Grenoble; for a possible nearby in/out of the region lodging option
I went through Grenoble. It was a bit over an hour drive from Grenoble to La Grave on a clean road with not much traffic.

EMSC":2my1ng4a said:
I'm thinking a euro-rail pass may be a good choice as well? At least down/back to Grenoble? Not sure on renting a car if it's going to sit for a week at skiers lodge or etc...
I think rail only gets you TO Grenoble. Public transit beyond is by bus, the bus Grenoble to Briancon runs maybe once or twice a day, will stop in La Grave, which is a quite small town. As in most multi-area destinations I recommend renting a car. On the Extremely Canadian trip we used them 2 days to Serre Chevalier and the Via Ferrata rock climb near Briancon. La Grave is like Valdez or Las Lenas; you will not be skiing there on bad weather days. Les Deux Alpes and Alpe d'Huez are also close by, easy access by car, not so otherwise.

EMSC":2my1ng4a said:
perused the Skiers Lodge web site....Any thoughts to help rough out potential overall logistics? Is La Grave itself worth an entire week I assume? Tony, I assume you did the daily option with them for a few days? How about skis? Rent them and just bring the boots?
Rule #1: You need to be with guides EVERY day you're at La Grave. There are a few safe lines near the lifts, but that is not why you're there. If you don't want/think you can afford guides every day, go ski Deux Alpes, Alpe d'Huez or Serre Chevalier on those days. If weather and snow are cooperative I would imagine the La Grave guides could find exciting and varied skiing as long as you cared to stay there. My week was probably average for weather but considerably worse than that for snow. Which is why we weren't skiing much stuff over 40 degrees. Still a lot of no-fall zones in terms of exposure, length of potential slides.

La Grave is tough on skis; that's why Extremely Canadian includes rentals. Quality of rental skis is good. You might want your own when you're skiing other places, but if you rent for the whole week while based in La Grave the logistics are not bad. If you bring your own you need something versatile. They need to be able to handle both deep powder and frozen granular on 40+ degree slopes.

Between the language and his broad skiing skill set, La Grave should be on Patrick's VERY short list.
 
Trains will get to Briancon, but I'm pretty sure there's no stop in La Grave. If accessibility by train is actually important, then Chamonix and Les Arcs are the two largest areas completely accessible by train from Paris.
 
Good starting point info. Thanks. I'm sure I'll have a few more questions sometime later in planning but this should get me started. Now I'll be watching airfares from Geneva, etc...

Tony, I would never do La Grave without a guide. Since you only had a few days that week actually at La Grave I was trying to figure out if you were day tripping with the guides at La Grave vs the week long package that Skiers Lodge runs.
 
Extremely Canadian was a one-week package. You need to ask Skiers Lodge what they do with week-package guests on down or marginal days. Extremely Canadian provided the alternate activities (Serre Chevalier and the Via Ferrata rock climb) so you're not sitting around doing nothing. Which they should, given their premium costs. I skied at La Grave 4 of the 6 possible days there.
 
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