Manitoba Mountain, Spirit of the Kenai

[soulskier]

Can't remember if I already asked this, but I'm curious how much Soul Skier has been in touch with Aaron/Jen Brill -- what he's learned from Silverton and how he's applying it to Manitoba.

I have no clue how much of the spaghetti that's being thrown at SS in this forum will turn out to be true, but it's fascinating to see how people here seem to be taking this ski area as a personal affront, as if he'd insulted their mothers. Even if some of his statements here are proved to be delusional or unrealistic, I salute the fact that he's putting his money/time/effort where his mouth is instead of just complaining about the status quo over and over.

That's for the nice words and reassuring shot in the arm.

I have been in contact with a member of management at Silverton for the past several years. They have given some great insight. I admire what the Brills have done and consider them both an inspiration.

[Marc_C]

I have no clue how much of the spaghetti that's being thrown at SS in this forum will turn out to be true, but it's fascinating to see how people here seem to be taking this ski area as a personal affront, as if he'd insulted their mothers. Even if some of his statements here are proved to be delusional or unrealistic, I salute the fact that he's putting his money/time/effort where his mouth is instead of just complaining about the status quo over and over.

I agree completely with the last sentence. Just to be clear, like Tony, I also would like to see Manitoba succeed, as it does represent a distinctly different style of ski area, in the spirit of Silverton and MRG. What I do take affront to is inflated, basically dishonest marketing hype of the type that is endemic in the business. The repeated reference to 10K acres is one example. Being "family oriented", despite whatever that exactly means, is another. So are estimates of the visitation when the major population base would have to drive significantly beyond Alyeska (which does have the infrastructure and services for families). Sooner or later Manitoba will be seeking investors in the form of coop share owners and we've already seen in these threads a distinctly idealistic, probably unrealistic, and obscenely optimistic projection of the project's visitation and finances.

So yes, be successful, but cut out the overinflated hype and be conservatively rational in the financial estimates. It's those latter two that continue to rankle me, Tony, Geoff, rfarren, et al.

[soulskier]

I have no clue how much of the spaghetti that's being thrown at SS in this forum will turn out to be true, but it's fascinating to see how people here seem to be taking this ski area as a personal affront, as if he'd insulted their mothers. Even if some of his statements here are proved to be delusional or unrealistic, I salute the fact that he's putting his money/time/effort where his mouth is instead of just complaining about the status quo over and over.

I agree completely with the last sentence. Just to be clear, like Tony, I also would like to see Manitoba succeed, as it does represent a distinctly different style of ski area, in the spirit of Silverton and MRG. What I do take affront to is inflated, basically dishonest marketing hype of the type that is endemic in the business. The repeated reference to 10K acres is one example. Being "family oriented", despite whatever that exactly means, is another. So are estimates of the visitation when the major population base would have to drive significantly beyond Alyeska (which does have the infrastructure and services for families). Sooner or later Manitoba will be seeking investors in the form of coop share owners and we've already seen in these threads a distinctly idealistic, probably unrealistic, and obscenely optimistic projection of the project's visitation and finances.

So yes, be successful, but cut out the overinflated hype and be conservatively rational in the financial estimates. It's those latter two that continue to rankle me, Tony, Geoff, rfarren, et al.

Not sure where you are reading about the Financial estimates, as none have been published online to date?

I don't think it's a coincidence that the 4 most offended by the "over-hyping" do not ski at a level to enjoy the "10,000 acres of terrain". Many big mountain skiers are very excited about the ability to access this type of terrain for a very reasonable price, instead of dropping close to a grand for a day of heli skiing.

Again, not trying to be elitist, just pointing out that a segment of the ski population craves for this type of terrain, and currently are not having their needs meet.

I feel confident that you guys wouldn't take such issue if big mountain skiing was your fortay.

[soulskier]

Mountain Rider’s Alliance moving on AK project

Summit County Citizens Voice, May 30

http://summitcountyvoice.com/2011/05/30 ... a-project/

[rfarren]

It's those latter two that continue to rankle me, Tony, Geoff, rfarren, et al.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the 4 most offended by the "over-hyping" do not ski at a level to enjoy the "10,000 acres of terrain". Many big mountain skiers are very excited about the ability to access this type of terrain for a very reasonable price, instead of dropping close to a grand for a day of heli skiing.

I don't think I've ever skied with you, so I don't know why you took it upon yourself to knock my ability to ski. I spent this last March skiing mostly backcountry in Colorado, trying to find steep terrain. I'm not afraid nor hesitant to take on steep and deep in fact I actively seek it out because I like to go fast in deep snow. This comment along with your earlier knocking of MRG convinces me you're ignorant, and makes me hope that you're not in charge of pr for your product.... Besides, what if I were a poor skier but a major enthusiast of the sport, what good would it be to knock someone's skills? This is why people have pegged you as an elitist. Jamesdeluxe, if you want to know where the vitriol against SS begins just look at the comments above.

The above having been said: I was actually going to say that I am impressed that you've managed to push your project so far, and kudos to you. I actually don't have a problem with the hyping as every ski area in this nation with the exception of very few don't hype their terrain. For example Big Sky and Killington overstate their vert, Vail doesn't happen to say that their double blacks are blues at Snowbird etc.... Nonetheless, I don't think it's prudent to go on this forum and try to convince us that your mountain is a game changer, we are educated skiers and many of us have hiked 2 hours outside of major ski areas and know what's there. We also have a history of pointing out the hype different ski areas push.

My only major contention with Soulskier was his whole green electricity initiative, which IMHO is a poor business decision and believe will jeopardize his project, as the ski industry already has razor thin margins.

[soulskier]

It's those latter two that continue to rankle me, Tony, Geoff, rfarren, et al.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the 4 most offended by the "over-hyping" do not ski at a level to enjoy the "10,000 acres of terrain". Many big mountain skiers are very excited about the ability to access this type of terrain for a very reasonable price, instead of dropping close to a grand for a day of heli skiing.

I don't think I've ever skied with you, so I don't know why you took it upon yourself to knock my ability to ski. I spent this last March skiing mostly backcountry in Colorado, trying to find steep terrain. I'm not afraid nor hesitant to take on steep and deep in fact I actively seek it out because I like to go fast in deep snow. This comment along with your earlier knocking of MRG convinces me you're ignorant, and makes me hope that you're not in charge of pr for your product.... Besides, what if I were a poor skier but a major enthusiast of the sport, what good would it be to knock someone's skills? This is why people have pegged you as an elitist. Jamesdeluxe, if you want to know where the vitriol against SS begins just look at the comments above.

The above having been said: I was actually going to say that I am impressed that you've managed to push your project so far, and kudos to you. I actually don't have a problem with the hyping as every ski area in this nation with the exception of very few don't hype their terrain. For example Big Sky and Killington overstate their vert, Vail doesn't happen to say that their double blacks are blues at Snowbird etc.... Nonetheless, I don't think it's prudent to go on this forum and try to convince us that your mountain is a game changer, we are educated skiers and many of us have hiked 2 hours outside of major ski areas and know what's there. We also have a history of pointing out the hype different ski areas push.

My only major contention with Soulskier was his whole green electricity initiative, which IMHO is a poor business decision and believe will jeopardize his project, as the ski industry already has razor thin margins.

Sorry Rob, I assumed since you live in New York City that you aren't looking for 45+ degree sustained slopes and no fall zones. See you in the Last Frontier.

BTW, it won't be too long until we lay out the green initiative, and why it makes financial sense. Your guys are gonna love it!

[Admin]

Sorry Rob, I assumed since you live in New York City that you aren't looking for 45+ degree sustained slopes and no fall zones.

Jamie, I'm often convinced that the only way you know how to dig is down.

[soulskier]

Nonetheless, I don't think it's prudent to go on this forum and try to convince us that your mountain is a game changer, we are educated skiers and many of us have hiked 2 hours outside of major ski areas and know what's there.

The thing you "educated skiers" can't seem to comprehend is the Manitoba out of bounds terrain is in a totally different league than anything you have hiked within 2 hours of any ski area in North America. And that my fellow snow enthusiast, is what's going to be a game changer.

[Admin]

The thing you "educated skiers" can't seem to comprehend is the Manitoba out of bounds terrain is in a totally different league than anything you have hiked within 2 hours of any ski area in North America. And that my fellow snow enthusiast, is what's going to be a game changer.

Jamie, something like that just begs to be called I mean, really...seriously...I've seen those aerials and there's nothing there that's more spectacular than, say, lift-accessed OB at Telluride, Alta/Bird, Jackson, Whistler, Fernie...I could go on and on but why would I bother? Steep? Check. Long? Check. Big? Check. That applies to all of them, that's not something Manitoba has a patent on.

Stable snowpack? Yeah, more so near the coast than at more continental locations. But that doesn't make it a "game changer." And all of those other locations named above are far more accessible than EBF on the Kenai. That's the game changer, but not in a good way.

I don't know why I keep letting myself get involved in these inane conversations...

[soulskier]

Jamie, something like that just begs to be called I mean, really...seriously...I've seen those aerials and there's nothing there that's more spectacular than, say, lift-accessed OB at Telluride, Alta/Bird, Jackson, Whistler, Fernie...I could go on and on but why would I bother? Steep? Check. Long? Check. Big? Check. That applies to all of them, that's not something Manitoba has a patent on.

Not in the same league, I invite you to ask any expert level accomplished skier. They will all tell you Alaska is the Super Bowl and when it's on, there is nowhere better on the planet, period.

Except for Fernie, I have skied all the areas that you mention. The Chugach zone is in a different league, trust me on this.

[soulskier]

Better yet, watch any ski movie with a budget and tell me which segment stuck out most.

[rfarren]

Sorry Rob, I assumed since you live in New York City that you aren't looking for 45+ degree sustained slopes and no fall zones.

I spend a ton on skiing, just ask my wife. I get no fewer than 25 days a year of skiing. The majority of which are out west. I'm exactly your target audience; a person looking for deep, steep, and cheap. My disposable income goes towards snow adventures. If I could live out west I would but my job is unique for my location. Remember not to judge people by where they live, half of the US ski team grew up in the midwest, an area of the country quite devoid of mountains.

Based on the photos provided by your site, I don't think the terrain in itself is unique for backcountry within 2 hour hike from the top of the lifts. I do think what is unique is how the snow looks like it sticks to everything regardless of grade steepness.

I do think it's interesting that you're promoting mainly bc terrain, clearly because the inbounds isn't all that great compared to the lower 48 competitors. This might be a boon as one of the largest growing segments of the sport is on the bc end of it. I only wonder if people can sue the area if they are hurt or killed skiing the bc, especially when the area is advertising the bc.

[Geoff]

So yes, be successful, but cut out the overinflated hype and be conservatively rational in the financial estimates. It's those latter two that continue to rankle me, Tony, Geoff, rfarren, et al.

...along with the whole "my dick is bigger than your dick" thing.

For me, it's not the financial estimates... it's the whole naive business strategy. I've started several (moderately) successful companies from scratch where we had essentially no capital to get the company off the ground. I've gone months without drawing a pay check. I've raided my savings to buy equipment for the company. If this ski area really holds to the whole triple bottom line thing, the business is going to fail. It's all well & good that a profit machine like Ben & Jerry's could run that way before they sold out. A shoestring operation has to run incredibly lean. You're going to be paying minimum wage with no benefits. The moment business conditions turn soft, you're going to lay people off. You're going to string out your suppliers and people are going to be knocking on your door looking for money. The business is going to be green only insofar as it doesn't have the money to spend much on energy.

[Admin]

Not in the same league, I invite you to ask any expert level accomplished skier.

I did...I asked myself. Or are you implying something? Perhaps you assumed since I live in Utah that I'm not looking for 45+ degree sustained slopes and no fall zones?

[Staley]

I don't know anything particular about Manitoba Mountain, but not everything in Alaska is equal. That would be like saying that a new resort in the Park City area is guaranteed to have the best snowfall in the world because Alta is right nearby.