Ski Area Count 2019

Topics of a general nature regarding snowsports, which don't easily fit into one of our other Liftlines categories. This is also the place to post Letters to the Editor.

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby Tony Crocker » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:32 pm

jamesdeluxe wrote:Here's my lift-served list, which only covers two continents compared to your six and only 18 years of alpine skiing compared to your 30+.

That would be 40+ years. After 18 years I had only 63 areas, so I would say the odds are high James will pass me by eventually.

No backcountry skiing for James? Whiteface Toll Road? Tuckerman's? I'm fairly sure he has no cat or heli days. Backcountry skiing in the Alps is typically lift assisted (so included in the lift served), and I know James has done that. I suspect he will eventually schmooze a heli drop somewhere in the Alps.

Arnie Wilson's area count was 746 when we met him in Iceland in 2015.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 10132
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby Sbooker » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:10 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:
sbooker wrote:Northstar California (Our first 'big mountain' ski experience. We quickly worked out skiing in Oz and NZ was second rate by comparison)

Presumably sbooker is less impressed by Northstar now that he has been around both North America and the Alps some more. I'll take Treble Cone or Mt. Hutt in full operation over Northstar any day. Unfortunately Mt. Hutt's advanced/expert terrain was off limits both of my days there.

sbooker covered a lot of ground on that Alps trip this season, as much as any of ours. We never heard any details though. I see a lot of time in the Dolomites (Cortina plus Sella Ronda), which were very lean on natural snow this season. Did the vaunted snowmaking live up to its billing? Were all pistes open? Was there a lot of frozen granular from skier traffic on nearly all manmade snow? At least the Aosta and Austrian areas had plenty of natural snow on that trip.

Did EMSC live in the Southeast sometime to get those obscure places?

My lost area list consists of just Kratka Ridge in the traditional sense of a no longer exiting ski area in any form. Montana Backcountry Adventures and CAT Powder skiing are defunct snowcat operations whose terrain was taken over by lift service, Moonlight Basin and Revelstoke respectively. Chisenupuri is the opposite, lift served when I skied there in 2011; the lift is now shut down but the terrain is used for cat skiing.


Rambling post incoming.

We have never skied NZ in great conditions and if we did in the early days we weren’t up to taking advantage of the advanced terrain.
Northstar was an eye opener for us. Those long blue runs lined with conifers on lovely snow was what we then thought was as good as it gets. Of course my kids were just 4 and 6 and myself and my wife were even more intermediate than we are now so anything more would have been lost on us.
The year later we went to Mammoth in late March. It started snowing late on the afternoon we pulled into the Alpenhof and didn’t stop snowing until the next night. It was the first time we saw a big dump of snow but we didn’t do it justice. That was the trip that got us hooked though. We were impressed by how steep some of the runs were and we loved you could be at one end of the mountain without being able to see the other.
Because of the distance we are from the snow and my reluctance to take lessons for fear of ‘missing out’ on ski time while being ‘stuck’ in lessons we spent plenty of time on groomers for the next couple of years. Even so we went to some great areas and we now realise Northstar is second rate itself in comparison to some of our favourites. We have great memories but some are particularly special. Spending a few days going up and down the Symphony and Harmony areas of Whistler (where the kids first took to skiing off the groomers), Mineral Basin at Snowbird, a snowy day at a virtually deserted Sacajawea side of Grand Targhee and a day at Sun Valley in early 2017 where we lapped a lift on the Warm Springs side for hours in uncontested powder will remain etched in our memories.

Europe was great. We got lucky with snow in the Zillertal on the day we got there. After that first day skiing powder we woke for the second day skiing. My daughters reaction (“Dad they flattened all the soft snow”) probably sums up why we think North American skiing is more suited to us. We like to ski as a family and my wife prefers groomers so hiring a guide and avi gear is wasted. It’s much easier for us to be able to jump on a lift where there is safe ungroomed terrain with a groomer close by. That said the scenery and vastness of the ski areas more than impressed us.
We only skied at Cortina because we had to take a taxi to Passo Falzarego to ski the Hidden Valley run (Emily was dying to do the horse tow thing). Just across the road from the cable car was the lift to the Cinque Torri area so we spent some time there. The Dolomites ‘snow’ was amazing and piste skiing was superb. Well over 95% of the runs were open and we encountered no ice at all - it was like skiing on packed powder. I think we were lucky to have consistently cold remperatures for the few days we were there. The mind blowing scenery, super efficient lift system (I’d prefer less gondolas though) and wonderful cheap on mountain food were all fantastic but the skiing was a bit ‘samey’. We skied the Marmolada glacier and both the Gran Rosa and Sasslong World Cup runs.

When we were based in Aosta the highlight was skiing from Italy into France. (I’ve noted you’ve not skied La Thuile and La Rosiere. :stir: ). La Rosiere is south facing so we spent a few hours skiing soft bump runs because of the steady diet of groomers we had at Pila and Cervinia. Cervinia was the only place we experienced lift lines of any significance and I suspect that was due to lift closures up high. We didn’t get to go over the top to Zermatt so only spied the Matterhorn from the ‘wrong’ side. Even so the scenery of Mont Blanc and the other huge mountains in that region made up for it.

This year will be a few days in Thredbo before we ski Japan early next winter. Even if we experience the famous Japanese powder I think my wife’s love of groomers will make Canada and the US our ‘go to’ areas. Others on here might think Japan will have something to offer all of us?
In February we’ll fly into SLC for our first trip without the kids. We intend to do our first lessons in the hope that Kylie will gain enough confidence to really embrace skiing off the groomers. We will be taking friends. Two couples - one of which are early intermediates who have only skied Oz and the other who are both never evers. As a result we may be a little limited as to what we can do. I hope the likes of Alta, Snowbird, Big Sky and Aspen blow them away. We hope to be at Snowbird by ourselves at the end of the trip so you can push both of us out of our comfort zone.

I’ll try to post some Euro pics.
Sbooker
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:29 pm
Location: Brisbane Australia
Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby Sbooker » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:27 pm

Europe January 2019.
Attachments
8CEE097D-616E-4B40-A394-55B6A0C1DCEF.jpeg
Europe has great beer. Hofbrauhaus.
00FD2382-6012-4E43-8840-1D68C34C5628.jpeg
Fresh snow at Kaltenbach for our first day of skiing in Europe.
77CB3826-42DC-40D7-A333-A660FAAF0466.jpeg
Impressive scenery.
51358271-EA16-4361-BE72-6173A42082D2.jpeg
60DF6179-44C5-46C4-8677-1CB689623C8C.jpeg
No passport required.
468935DE-0C2E-4182-9322-3438A0C0745F.jpeg
Tourists in Milan.
1A2021F4-3FE1-4AB1-B386-4C187EE9819C.jpeg
Dolomites.
579B460C-B212-43F2-A99F-AF764E70F7B2.jpeg
Marmolada area where the fought WW1.
3EE7E5CC-60BB-4A2C-BB7B-580EA6A1E7FE.jpeg
Cinque Torri.
907838B9-7BE5-46E2-B4DB-91C5EE2161BB.jpeg
Even some snow in the Dolomites.
A0BB8607-8E9C-4E61-9284-F97C50AA55F6.jpeg
That’s Les Arcs from La Rosiere.
Sbooker
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:29 pm
Location: Brisbane Australia
Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby Patrick » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:57 pm

Frenchmen, lifts enthusiasm and monoskier RodoAF is above 500 ski areas visited.

Finnish skier Planet_skier is somewhere in the 300-400 range I believe.

As for myself, I'm at about 150.
Ski Mad World
A blog of MadPat's World: A History of Skiing Geography
http://madpatski.wordpress.com
User avatar
Patrick
 
Posts: 4768
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:19 am
Location: The Great Trip 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby jamesdeluxe » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:39 am

Sbooker wrote: My daughters reaction (“Dad they flattened all the soft snow”) probably sums up why we think North American skiing is more suited to us.

Personal preferences can't be argued but I'm not sure where to start with the implication that there's very little ungroomed offpiste in the Alps.
User avatar
jamesdeluxe
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:19 pm
Location: South Orange, NJ

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby jamesdeluxe » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:50 am

Patrick wrote:Frenchmen, lifts enthusiasm and monoskier RodoAF is above 500 ski areas visited.

Rodo is a force of nature. I love reading his TRs. That said; I believe British ski journalist Arnie Wilson is still in the lead with somewhere around 700 areas. Rodo will overtake him eventually.
User avatar
jamesdeluxe
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:19 pm
Location: South Orange, NJ

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby Sbooker » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:12 pm

jamesdeluxe wrote:
Sbooker wrote: My daughters reaction (“Dad they flattened all the soft snow”) probably sums up why we think North American skiing is more suited to us.

Personal preferences can't be argued but I'm not sure where to start with the implication that there's very little ungroomed offpiste in the Alps.


That’s not the implication I was making. If that’s the way it came across it wasn’t intentional. There’s obviously loads of opportunity to ski fresh snow in Europe but to do it safely all together as a family when one of the party prefers groomers is much more of a hassle. I believe three of us would need the assistance of a guide (and avi gear) while my wife would have to either compromise on what she prefers or spend the day by herself on the marked trails.

I was shocked at the extent of the grooming after fresh snow. There was nothing left untouched on the marked pistes.

My experience is that hills in North America are more likely to leave a couple of runs off each lift ungroomed - and those areas are still avalanche controlled. This may not be the case in every resort of course.
Sbooker
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:29 pm
Location: Brisbane Australia
Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby Tony Crocker » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:30 pm

sbooker wrote:I was shocked at the extent of the grooming after fresh snow. There was nothing left untouched on the marked pistes.

If it's a marked piste, blue, red or black, expect it to be groomed daily. Some Euro areas have "skiroutes" marked yellow, which are not groomed but still subject to avalanche control.

I expected this answer:
sbooker wrote:There’s obviously loads of opportunity to ski fresh snow in Europe but to do it safely all together as a family when one of the party prefers groomers is much more of a hassle.

James and I exercise our own judgment when to venture off piste on our own and when a guide is necessary. It's a different scenario taking your kids. Each skier should make their own call and not be overly influenced by someone else's call.

As far as divergent preferences in terrain, that's also each individual's call. Liz has no hesitation sending me on my way if I want to ski something out of her comfort zone. With cell service it's usually not that hard to regroup, as we have done a few times even in the Alps.

That's quite a testimonial to Dolomite snowmaking, as I know they were lean on natural snow. I guess Fraser was not overhyping how good it is. Those of us who have a steady diet of Mammoth/LCC are princesses about snow surfaces and can usually detect easily a firm manmade subsurface. When Liz and I were in the Dolomites (in the 2018 season with good natural snow) I noticed that manmade subsurface in just a few places but only one piste in Seceda was overall frozen granular. There were several pistes in that category in SkiWelt and Kitzbuhel in 2017. Saalbach's snow we thought was as good as the Dolomites.

The Falzarego/Cinque Torii sector nominally belongs to Cortina, though I'm inclined to group it with the other isolated Civetta sectors on the World War I circuit. Sbooker had nicer weather than we did; lift closures delayed our arrival at Passo Falzareggo, so we got to ski the Hidden Valley run but it was so late we missed the horselift.

As for next year's March trip, my earlier comment about skiing independently applies even more. Snowbird is one of the worst areas on the planet for "never evers." Don't even think about taking them there. Albion/Sunnyside is the only terrain in LCC reasonable for beginners. It's a waste of resources for your friends (including "early intermediates") to stay up there. You have the right idea to ski LCC at the end of the trip after your friends have gone home.

The trip should definitely start at Aspen/Snowmass. Buttermilk is tailor made for beginners and Snowmass has a ton of low intermediate terrain which should be in the comfort zone of the other couple and accessible to the first timers after a couple of days of progress. Big Sky also has a lot of low intermediate terrain if you have the time to go up there.

If I recall sbooker has been skiing North America on the Mountain Collective. You might want to consider the Ikon Pass instead for this trip as it will add Brighton, Solitude and Deer Valley. Any of those places will be better for your friends than LCC though not as good as Buttermilk and Snowmass.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 10132
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby jamesdeluxe » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:11 pm

EMSC wrote:sbookers list is actually pretty impressive for someone living in Aussie land. Those are long flights to the northern hemisphere.

I looked up the shortest possible itineraries to common ski destinations in the north from Brisbane -- these are flight times only and not necessarily the least expensive:
Chitose, Japan: 14:40
Salt Lake: 18:00
Denver: 18:30
Zurich: 22:00

Props to Sbooker for his dedication. My eight-hour flights to Geneva or Zurich are comparatively small potatoes.
User avatar
jamesdeluxe
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:19 pm
Location: South Orange, NJ

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby Patrick » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:04 am

EAST: 79
WEST: 26
EUROPE: 22
SOUTH HEMISPHERE: 27
GRAND TOTAL: 154 (minimum, I might have skied a few more lost ski areas prior to me keeping track in 1981, nevertheless I've added 5 areas skied only prior to 1980).

For data freaks, everything is sorted: 1) General region (Eastern Canada), 2) Province / State level, 3) Count of days.

Example I've skied more in the Alps than the Andes. Also more days in Argentina versus Chile, so Argentina ski areas are listed before the Chilean ones. A quick note, I've skied the same numbers of days between Australia and New Zealand.

Eastern Canada (QC + ON): 50
Eastern US (NE + SE): 29
Western Canada (AB + BC): 10
Western US (CA, OR, WY, CO, UT, MT, WA): 16
Alps (FR, SW, AU, IT): 22
Andes (AR + CL): 14
Oceania (AU + NZ): 13


QUEBEC (48):
Laurentians (21):
Tremblant
St-Sauveur
Chanteclerc
Gray Rocks
Gabriel
Mt-Blanc
Avila
Garceau
Belle-Neige
Val St-Côme
Morin Heights
Habitant
Olympia
Mont Alta
Mont Avalanche
Sauvage
Vallée Bleue
Montcalm
Faustin (pre80)
Sun Valley (pre80)
Mont Laval (pre80)

Outaouais (6):
Edelweiss
Fortune
Cascades
Vorlage
Ste-Marie
Mont Chilly

Eastern Townships and Montreal area (10):
Sutton
Owl's Head
Bromont
Orford
Glen
St-Bruno
Rigaud
Adstock
Mont Royal (pre80)
Echo (pre80)

Quebec City (5):
Ste-Anne
Stoneham
Massif
Le Relais
Grand Fonds

East Quebec (6):
Mt-Comi
Val-Neigette
Mines Madeleine, Chic Chocs*
Val d'Irène
Hogback, Chic Chocs*
Albert, Chic Chocs*

ONTARIO (2):
Calabogie Peaks
Pakenham

NORTHEAST US (27):
Vermont (10):
Killington
Mad River Glen
Jay Peak
Smugglers'
Stowe
Sugarbush
Burke
Bolton
Middlebury
Pico

New York (5):
Whiteface
Titus
Gore
Whiteface Toll Road*
Snow Ridge

New Hampshire (10):
Tuckerman/Mt. Washington*
Cannon
Wildcat
Bretton Woods
Waterville Valley
Attitash
Balsams Wilderness
Black
Cranmore
Loon

Maine (2):
Sunday River
Sugarloaf

SOUTHEAST US (2):
West Virginia (2):
Timberline* (closed)
White Grass*

WESTERN CANADA (10):
Alberta (6):
Sunshine
Lake Louise
Marmot
Fortress
Nakiska
Norquay

British Columbia (4):
Blackcomb
Shames
Whistler
Smithers

WESTERN US (16):
California (2):
Mammoth
Squaw

Oregon (2):
Timberline
Bachelor

Wyoming (3):
Jackson Hole
Grand Targhee
Snow King

Colorado (2):
Loveland
Arapahoe Basin

Utah (2):
Alta
Snowbird

Montana (3):
Big Sky
Moonlight Basin
Bridger Bowl

Washington (2):
Crystal
Sunrise/Rainier

ALPS (22):
France (14):
Flaine
Val Thorens
Val d'Isère
Tignes
Chamrousse
Alpe d'Huez
Meribel
Les Menuires
Les Arcs
Courchevel
Brévent-Flégère
Vallée Blanche-Mt.Blanc
Grands Montets
Deux Alpes

Switzerland (4):
Kleine Scheidegg-Mannlichen
Schilthorn-Murren
Saas Fee
Zermatt

Austria (2):
Molltaler
Hintertux

Italy (2):
Courmayeur
Passo Dello Stelvio

****
ANDES (14):
Argentina (6):
La Hoya
Catedral
Las Lenas
Cerro Bayo
Chapelco
Los Penitentes

Chile (8):
Termas de Chillan
Portillo
Pucon
El Colorado
La Parva
Valle Nevado
Arpa
Volcano Villarrica

****
OCEANIA (13):
Australia (6):
Perisher
Buller
Falls Creek
Hotham
Charlotte Pass
Thredbo

New Zealand (7):
Turua
Whakapapa
Caldrona
Hutt
Ohau
Remarks
Treble Cone
Ski Mad World
A blog of MadPat's World: A History of Skiing Geography
http://madpatski.wordpress.com
User avatar
Patrick
 
Posts: 4768
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:19 am
Location: The Great Trip 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby Patrick » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:33 am

I noticed a few interesting difference between Tony, James and my list.

Although Tony is based in California and me in the East, he skied one Eastern ski area which I've never been to: Stratton
His BC list is substantial (31 areas) versus mine (4), but which contains two areas Tony has not been: Shames and Smithers (now Hudson Bay).
France? Between his 12 and my 14, we only overlap on 5 areas.
Switzerland? Although I've only skied at 4 different areas, out of Tony's 17 hills, we only overlap at Zermatt.

As for James, he managed to ski at 2 Quebec ski areas I've never been and 2 that I might have, but don't recall. He skied 18 versus my 48.

And James' France, we managed to ski at 14 ski areas each without overlapping at a single one.
Ski Mad World
A blog of MadPat's World: A History of Skiing Geography
http://madpatski.wordpress.com
User avatar
Patrick
 
Posts: 4768
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:19 am
Location: The Great Trip 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby jamesdeluxe » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:32 am

Patrick wrote:I noticed a few interesting difference between Tony, James and my list.

While the ski areas often differ, your list and Tony's have a similar scope, i.e. southern-hemisphere regions that I doubt I'll ever get to.

Patrick wrote:As for James, he managed to ski at 2 Quebec ski areas I've never been and 2 that I might have, but don't recall. He skied 18 versus my 48.

Which are the 2-4 Quebec areas you haven't been to?


Glad to have you contribute again beyond the spring update. We miss your input.
User avatar
jamesdeluxe
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:19 pm
Location: South Orange, NJ

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby Patrick » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:03 pm

jamesdeluxe wrote:
Patrick wrote:I noticed a few interesting difference between Tony, James and my list.

While the ski areas often differ, your list and Tony's have a similar scope, i.e. southern-hemisphere regions that I doubt I'll ever get to.

Patrick wrote:As for James, he managed to ski at 2 Quebec ski areas I've never been and 2 that I might have, but don't recall. He skied 18 versus my 48.

Which are the 2-4 Quebec areas you haven't been to?


Never ever:
Massif du Sud and Mont Édouard (been on the list for over a decade).
Maybes but I don't remember (would have been as a child): La Réserve and Shefford. I remember a few events at La Réserve including a memorable toga party organized by the McGill ski team, memorable for many wrong reasons.


jamesdeluxe wrote:Glad to have you contribute again beyond the spring update. We miss your input.

Thanks.
It's been a challenging few years, all my online contribution has basically disappeared. My only real presence now is on my Instagram account (@Madpatski) as it requires less focus and energy.
I'm hopeful I'll be able to continue to my blog (i.e. Hrs, etc) at one point.
Ski Mad World
A blog of MadPat's World: A History of Skiing Geography
http://madpatski.wordpress.com
User avatar
Patrick
 
Posts: 4768
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:19 am
Location: The Great Trip 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby jamesdeluxe » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:28 am

Patrick wrote:Never ever: Massif du Sud and Mont Édouard (been on the list for over a decade)

Interesting that you missed those two ski areas; they're easily in my Quebec Top 5.
User avatar
jamesdeluxe
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:19 pm
Location: South Orange, NJ

Re: Ski Area Count 2019

Postby Tony Crocker » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:45 pm

Patrick wrote:Although Tony is based in California and me in the East, he skied one Eastern ski area which I've never been to: Stratton

I was there last December because of a NASJA event. Nonetheless I considered it an informative experience. I understand better James definition of "second tier East." Superficially it looks like a bigger version of Big Bear, but the fall lines were longer and more continuous. That's sort of what I said about Pajarito! Liz agrees Pajarito and Stratton are a close comparison in ski topography though of course they are polar opposites in ambience.

Similarly I skied Lutsen in 2009 because of a NASJA event. It is by far the largest area in the Midwest. It is in the Big Bear/Catskill category but definitely less steep, which tells you something given the reputation of Big Bear and the Catskills.

The diversity in the Alps is illustrated by how little overlap there is between Patrick's, James and my lists.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 10132
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


All content herein copyright © 1999-2017 First Tracks!! Online Media

Forums Terms & Conditions of Use