Mammoth, Nov. 29 - Dec. 1, 2010

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
In my recently (Sept. 30) retired state I took the opportunity to ski a few midweek days at Mammoth. It was as empty as I've ever seen, so empty that they did not run chairs 12-14.

I drove up Monday morning and got on the hill at 11:45. It was colder than usual ~15F and the overnight low was 4F. There was a strong upslope wind that blasted you as you dropped in from the top but fortunately little wind while riding chairs. Adam and the other powderhounds had tracked up the powder, but with the cold temps much of the off trail snow was still soft so I was probably right to be skiing the BD Verdicts with the new Marker Baron bindings.

I warmed up with a few cruisers on chairs 1&2 plus a run on the face of 3, which they are not grooming yet as it probably needs more base. Riding the gondola up I noticed the Unbound terrain park, where they were blowing snow, and they have also put in as a regular feature the inflatable air mattress they tried out last spring.
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Adam had warned me about the extensive avalanches from the storm of Nov. 20-23, so after a windblasted run on Cornice I headed over to Dave's for the best snow on the upper mountain. Afternoon light is low so Dave's pic here is from Wednesday morning.
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I cruised down Gold Hill to chair 9 and then took the bony traverse out Ricochet to search for some soft snow. This Chair 9 pic is also from Wednesday.
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On Monday there was still soft powder among the small trees. Lower down I traversed skier's right but soon bailed back into the main runs after hitting bottom a couple of times. I cruised on down to Eagle and noted that there were few tracks in the trees between the intermediate runs there. So I hung around there for a couple of low angle powder runs.
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By 2:30 the sun was behind the mountain so I went into Canyon to put on a warmer layer. Then up chair 22 to some soft snow in Grizzly per Adam's review from Sunday. That one wore me out so I finished with a short tree run near the old chair 10 area. 18,700 for the afternoon and I was pretty beat. I have concluded that the early AM drive to Mammoth and ski plan may not be best for me. Better to drive up the day before and get a night's sleep at 8,000 feet before skiing.

Tuesday/Wednesday weather was more normal for Mammoth: 25-30F with the prevailing wind from the NW. So there was a steady breeze in your face riding chairs 2 and 16 but it was much more comfortable up top than on Monday. I skied 2 runs on Climax, which was only open at the top on far skier's left due to the big slide a week ago, seen here as an overview from chair 5.
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That fracture line was quite a bit deeper originally before the foot or so of snow over Thanksgiving weekend. There was a similar slide in Drop Out, so the only direct skiing from chair 23 is on the Wipe Out side. I skied a run along the boundary line left of the Cornice and traversed into the apron below Drop Out Tuesday afternoon. By this time the snow was firming up from the wind and unfortunately not completely smooth. Areas like this will become easier to ski with more traffic on the weekends. I did ski Wipe out, where Mammoth CEO Rusty Gregory was giving a tour to few visitors. And I skied a later run on Monument. The Paranoids are mostly off limits due to another avalanche during the big storm. I also skied a few runs on chair 5 and totalled 23,300 for the day.
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Wednesday I got out just after 9AM, skied the usual warmups plus Gravy Chute under chair 1 before heading up top to Cornice and Wipe Out 2. I then decide to take Roadrunner around the back to see what the chair 14 terrain looked like. To my surprise I saw these 2 kiteboarders in action.
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The one on the right may be slightly lifted off the ground.

I could see coverage lower down on chair 14 was fine, although there were lots of wind waves so I suspect they will groom a couple of runs before opening the lift on the weekends. Back up the gondola to Dave's, Gold Hill and around to chair 22. I poked my way in very carefully to Avalanche 2.
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After a couple of runs on chair 5 and 20,900 for the day I hit the road by 2PM.

Overall it's great to have the early snow, 88 inches so far. There have been only 6 other seasons where Mammoth had 80+ inches by Nov. 30. However, coverage and available terrain is well below those 6 other seasons, as those who skied late October and November of 2004 can attest. This November's snow was very low in water content, and was compounded by nearly half of the upper mountain avalanching. The mid and lower mountain is in better shape, including much of the steep terrain on chair 22. However it would be nice to get a couple of refresher storms before the Christmas crowds arrive.
 
:-({|=
Tony Crocker":3tl97c8p said:
I have concluded that the early AM drive to Mammoth and ski plan may not be best for me. Better to drive up the day before and get a night's sleep at 8,000 feet before skiing.

That wasn't even early AM. Try arriving by 7:45 for first chair next time.

Do you figure the condition will only get firmer until the next storm, or could some wind-buff start forming? Also, what were the groomers like?
 
Tony, Great report and pictures. Congratulations on your retirement. I considered retiring on 10/2, but have delayed mine until the middle of January for tax reasons. The upcoming weekend will be my last as a weekend warrior, until my wife, who plans to work for a few more years and has very limited vacation, wants to join me for a weekend trip.

Did already having a thin, consolidated layer of snow make the top of Mammoth avalanche? Squaw, which had very little snow before 11/20, as far as I know or could see when there, did not have widespread avalanches.
 
tseeb":37vks33p said:
Congratulations on your retirement.

I'm still waiting for Tony to re-un-retire like last time :mrgreen:

That snow coverage looks more like Colo than the normal sticky Sierra cement that glues itself to the rocks...
 
Staley":3m4mi6mz said:
That wasn't even early AM. Try arriving by 7:45 for first chair next time.
You're 30+ years younger than I am. Many variables affect how one skis: first trip of the season, jumping into tough terrain and a range of snow conditions right away. But I talked to Garry Klassen who retired 2 years ago, and he also thinks the overnight at Mammoth before skiing helps.

tseeb":3m4mi6mz said:
Did already having a thin, consolidated layer of snow make the top of Mammoth avalanche?
I'm sure it was a contributing factor. The comparison with Squaw fits exactly the answer Knox Williams gave me to admin's question at ISSW.

EMSC":3m4mi6mz said:
That snow coverage looks more like Colo than the normal sticky Sierra cement that glues itself to the rocks...
Very much so particularly by Adam's comments when he was skiing fresher snow over the weekend. I skied 4 of those good early seasons in the 1980's in addition to 2004 and this was much different. I will say that by Wednesday the wind had packed the snow quite well, so Mammoth isn't going to lose much of what it has now at this time of year.
 
Tony":kdm06qz9 said:
There have been only 6 other seasons where Mammoth had 80+ inches by Nov. 30. However, coverage and available terrain is well below those 6 other seasons, as those who skied late October and November of 2004 can attest. This November's snow was very low in water content, and was compounded by nearly half of the upper mountain avalanching

I've been following the snowfall reports at Mammoth, but your pictures tell the truth. My "Mammoth Eyes" saw something different than the reported 7.5 feet you would assume were at the higher elevations. There are some rock and tree outcroppings that would be long gone if there were that much snow. So how do you get a consolidated 7.5 feet out of 94" in total seasonal snowfall, especially snow with lower than usual density? Looks more like four feet to me.

Just for fun, here is an update from my backyard:

Mt Bachelor, 136" season total with 52" base and 56" mid-mountain. The last few days we got 20"+ of some much higher density snow than earlier in the season. This should bode well for NWX, Outback and Summit. I'm thinking those lifts will be open by December 18th weekend.
 
I've never been to Mammoth, but I was thinking the same thing after seeing those pics.
 
Admin":7q7n5ulw said:
socal":7q7n5ulw said:
The snow study site says the base depth at 9k ft is 33 inches.

From the photos that's more believable to me.
Remember that 9,000ft is the elevation at main lodge, and the top is 2k above that. Nearly everything pictured in the OP is near or above 10k. The main feature that lacks base at that elevation (of what's pictured) is Climax, and that's because most of it slide after the big storm before Thanksgiving. All but the largest of the rocks on that face would be covered had that not slid.

But yeah, Mammoth is terrible, don't bother going there. :-$
 
I have a few pictures from my phone that I took on Sunday (11/28) of the top so I might as well add those to this thread.

Looking up at Paranoid from the apron, there is a crown along the top of much of this but it's difficult to see from this perspective:
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Dropout/Wipeout from Chair 23, you can see the crown in Dropout on the left a bit:
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Closer view of Wipeout from 23:
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As always with Mammoth, coverage is highly dependent on the wind, as some areas have great depth while others just a few yards away have nearly no snow at all. Had nothing slid after the big storm, all the major expert terrain would be covered and skiable. As is, some places need maybe one more good storm to stick before they're ready.
 
skiace":354t9135 said:
Had nothing slid after the big storm, all the major expert terrain would be covered and skiable.
This was absolutely true during those 4 seasons in the 1980's with similar November snowfall. And compare to the pics from Nov. 13-14, 2004: viewtopic.php?t=194 This year would have had somewhat less base with the lower water content snow. Chair 22 is probably a good comparison there: Avalanche 1 is not skiable now as it was in those other years. But the big difference is from those 3 slides up top.

skiace":354t9135 said:
Remember that 9,000ft is the elevation at main lodge, and the top is 2k above that. Nearly everything pictured in the OP is near or above 10k.
Mammoth Snowman has commented that with blow-in many of the top runs will typically end up with about 1/3 more snow than the plot at 9K. I chatted with one of Mammoth's patrollers at ISSW. The Sesame plot is the highest possible location at Mammoth where snow can be measured accurately due to the wind. It's a reasonable spot; while it gets less snow than up high, it gets more than the Canyon Lodge area and a lot more than Eagle.

There is also seasonal variation in upper mountain cover due to the wind. The wind blow-in may fill up some upper runs more than others and it varies by storm.

socal":354t9135 said:
I don't see admin loving it there
Me neither, but mainly because admin is a powder snob, and Mammoth's new snow is often quite thick from wind packing by the time you can get to it. There are delightful exceptions to this rule, as skiace can attest from last January.

socal":354t9135 said:
it's not really my mid-winter choice (early and late make up 75% of my time there)
This is true for me also. Late season Mammoth is #1 in North America IMHO, since Mt. Bachelor chose to abdicate from the competition.
 
All I know is that with similar claimed season-to-date snowfall and similar claimed base depths it's looking a heluva lot bonier than what I'm seeing here or in Schubwa's posts from Bachelor.
 
admin":2i2aag0d said:
similar claimed season-to-date snowfall
:^o Bachelor 131 inches, Mammoth 88 inches, sounds about right to me. I agree Mammoth should not be claiming the high base depths since most of the places that might have that depth have slid.
 
A few quick comments in reply to Tony's commenting my TR.

Tony Crocker":12o511qd said:
In my recently (Sept. 30) retired state I took the opportunity to ski a few midweek days at Mammoth.

And people make fun of the French. The guy takes 6 weeks paid vacation and is retired way before 60. :stir:

* France retirement debate: Earliest retirement was push from 60 to 62, most people wouldn't benefit from this. You need now 42 years of pensionable income to be able to retire at 62...it used to be 40. Age of retirement in France is in fact up to 67 now.

Mammoth looked better in July. :mrgreen: Reworking a few TRs with pics, need to find time for that one.

And morning drive from LA is crazy. I couldn't see myself repeating that drive each time I wanted to ski...it's a long drive.

Now that you have retired, are you going to move closer to the 'ideal place to live' in order to maximize your skiing or do you still think LA is the place. :lol:

PS. Congrats for the retirement, the only way I'll retire so young is if I win a big amount at the lottery.
 
The morning drive was a spur of the moment decision. Garry was supposed to go with me, driving Monday and skiing Tuesday-Thursday, but he bailed out on Sunday. I will not have my own 4WD vehicle until March (Andrew totaled the Acura MDX in Oct. 2009 :evil:), and as of Sunday it looked best for me to finish skiing Mammoth Wednesday. As it was the 1995 Maxima needed to be jump started 3x on the Mammoth trip and is therefore getting a new starter today.

I'm not looking to move, with associated hassles and cost, anytime soon. Mammoth and SLC are one day's drive away. That's good enough when you have the time, weather forecasts and an appropriate vehicle. The latter issue may be a temporary problem this December and February (I will be gone most of January) if I'm unable to coordinate with Garry. I will have to borrow Adam's car again for the Iron Blosam trip. Last year I took it there and on to Idaho for the NASJA trip.
 
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