AltaBird in December

[JC]

Hi all,

I'm traveling to AltaBird on the weekend of Dec. 17th-20th. I know that it's early, but its the only free weekend that my 16-yr old son has to ski this year (he's a swimmer and has meets, or is training for meets, in Jan-Apr). My son, wife and I are staying at the Cliff Lodge.

We were planning to ski both Alta and Snowbird, but I just realized that we might be cutting it close on the MIneral Basin opening. My wife would love that terrain and the easy access to Alta. I always took it for granted that it would be open because I usually ski there in Feb/Mar/Apr.

When does Mineral Basin typically open in an average year? Would they open a groomer to provide on-piste access to Alta via the Baldy Express even if all of Mineral Basin is not open? My wife is not much of a hiker and would not take the high baldy traverse into Alta. We can take a bus up to Alta, but it would be fun to go via Mineral Basin.

Thanks!

 

[Admin]

When does Mineral Basin typically open in an average year?

Around that time, give or take. Depends on the snow and business volume.

Would they open a groomer to provide on-piste access to Alta via the Baldy Express even if all of Mineral Basin is not open?

Nope.

 

[Tony Crocker]

No need to fixate on Mineral Basin. Only in the poorest seasons will you see less than 75% of Alta and 50% of Snowbird skiable in that time frame. And you're before the Christmas crunch, so no crowd worries. Advance committing that early is never guaranteed, but the odds are definitely in your favor. More so than at all but a handful of other destinations.

 

[JC]

Thanks guys. Pretty much what I expected. Fingers crossed!

 

[rfarren]

It's not that bad of a traverse from mineral basin to Alta. I don't think you have to hike to the top of baldy unless you want to hit the chutes.

 

[Skidog]

It's not that bad of a traverse from mineral basin to Alta. I don't think you have to hike to the top of baldy unless you want to hit the chutes.

He's worried mineral wont be open at all...and the access from the top of baldy express into alta could hardy be called a traverse.

You might be thinking of the armpit gate (traverses to the tombstone area at alta) below the baldy chutes hike. That would be a traverse, but like mentioned hardly difficult. Im guessin that will probably not be open in that timeframe of OP's trip, but I could be wrong. They had Baldy chutes opened a couple times well before that last season. If thats open so's the traverse.

Good luck and shoot us a line when you get here if you wanna ski/ride with some locals.

M

 

[Admin]

It's not that bad of a traverse from mineral basin to Alta. I don't think you have to hike to the top of baldy unless you want to hit the chutes.

He's worried mineral wont be open at all...and the access from the top of baldy express into alta could hardy be called a traverse.

You might be thinking of the armpit gate (traverses to the tombstone area at alta) below the baldy chutes hike. That would be a traverse, but like mentioned hardly difficult. Im guessin that will probably not be open in that timeframe of OP's trip, but I could be wrong. They had Baldy chutes opened a couple times well before that last season. If thats open so's the traverse.

Good luck and shoot us a line when you get here if you wanna ski/ride with some locals.

M

The High Baldy Traverse to the Armpit gate is not contingent upon the Baldy Chutes being open. More often than not, the HBT is open while the hike to Baldy summit is closed. Also, keep in mind that the HBT is, in fact, a traverse, it's a five- to ten-minute hike depending on your conditioning to reach the HBT from the low point in the Peruvian ridgeline.

 

[icelanticskier]

just in case as to not be disappointed. i've lived out there two different winters. one at alta that offered a couple of WROD groomers till x-mas, and another at solitude that offered daily powder skiing from mid-late november on with a good base. fwiw, a good base for off piste skiing at the resorts is 60+ inches as a start (to me) and 80 inches means that your skis will fare well to hidden treasures that lurk in many areas. i have no doubt that you won't find the potential for better skiing at that time of year in most other regions, but don't be surprised if groomer skiing is the most reasonable commodity and the easiest on your equipment.

have fun

rog

 

[JC]

Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. You're right, I'm wondering whether MB will be open at all. My wife did the hike/traverse into Blackcomb glacier so maybe she could handle the HBT (although that is a bit more work), but MB would be great! I better get her started on the squats and lunges now!

Yeah, the weather is a bit iffy in Dec., but we don't have much choice on the dates if we want to get my son out on skis this year and AltaBird as almost as good a bet as you can make in mid-Dec. My wife would be very happy with groomers if that's all that's available. Groomers with chance at some pow isn't too bad for mid-Dec, polished off with a little apres-ski soaking in the hot tub with a beverage or two followed by a good meal. Better than sitting behind a desk, that's for sure!

Thanks for the offer to ski/ride with the locals! Since this is family skiing, so we won't be too hard core, although my son and I will definitely want to taste some of the good stuff if its available. The people on this board may want to push a little harder than we will on this particular trip. Nevertheless, I'll send an update before we go.

I'm coming back for 5 days over Super Bowl weekend for the annual "boys trip" and we'll want to ski hard. It would definitely be fun to meet some of the locals on that trip and we would probably match up pretty well in terms of our skiing interests.

Once again, thanks for the info and I look forward to meeting some of you for some turns this season!

 

[Admin]

Thanks for the offer to ski/ride with the locals!

You're welcome to join us anytime. Just let us know.

 

[Marc_C]

Would they open a groomer to provide on-piste access to Alta via the Baldy Express even if all of Mineral Basin is not open?

Nope.

I disagree. MB is typically pretty much all or nothing regarding opening - with the exception of the Bookends traverse. If MB is open, I've never experienced there not being a groomer on each side of the basin - Path to Paradise on the west and Lupine Loop on the east (Alta) side. The "traverse" into Alta from the Baldy Express is all of 200 feet. A bigger issue is if they will have started running the Baldy Express at that time, even if MB is open. That operational decision will be based on snow conditions and customer volume.

The presence or absense of groomed runs in MB is of course dependent on recent snowfall. If there was a big dump the night before, don't expect them. For that matter, don't expect MB to be open either if there was significant snow.

 

[Admin]

Would they open a groomer to provide on-piste access to Alta via the Baldy Express even if all of Mineral Basin is not open?

Nope.

I disagree.

Re-read, Mr. C. We actually agree. JC was asking if they'd provide a groomer to access Alta even if MB is only partially open. By "Nope" I was actually also saying that MB is all-or-nothing, i.e. either it's open or not. If it ain't open, there ain't no groomed route to Alta.

 

[Pajarito-Bred]

I don't think it's necessary to fixate on Mineral Basin. If the snow is lousy in LC Canyon when you're there, it's almost certainly worse anywhere else you could have picked to ski. There's plenty of great, forgotton terrain on the GAD side. Besides I think its a mistake to spend valuable ski time traipsing back and forth between areas. Just pick one, ski the other "tomorrow"

I'm having real issues with "AltaBird" in the title. That's like saying BushObama, or KetchupPeanutbutter. Just because you can have one and then the other doesn't mean it's appropriate to mash them together.
PS sorry about the kitten.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I'm having real issues with "AltaBird" in the title.

I disagree. Many people fixate on one to near-exclusion of the other, my Iron Blosam group being one of the biggest offenders in this regard. The conditions of the day may favor area one over the other. And both areas are so good that it's practically negligent IMHO to spend an entire week at one to the exclusion of the other. The OP should be especially aware of this, because the time of year he will be there tends to favor Alta due to coverage and layout issues even though he's staying at the Cliff in Snowbird.

I think its a mistake to spend valuable ski time traipsing back and forth between areas. Just pick one, ski the other "tomorrow"

In general I agree with this, particularly considering the $25 premium you pay for the privilege. However, my experience on the big powder day last March 10 illustrates an exception to the general rule. Avalanche control results in gradual opening of terrain during the day, with the most troublesome sectors sometimes holding off for at least a full day for the snow to settle. The locals who have combined passes score more powder in this situation than those confined to a single area. Considering what we pay for untracked in a snowcat, the extra $25 is a very modest premium to maximize powder IMHO. Furthermore you can make that decision on the fly, paying the $25 up at the Sugarloaf/Baldy checkpoint if you find out something you like at the other area just opened.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Many people fixate on one to near-exclusion of the other

Here we go again.

 

[Marc_C]

I'm having real issues with "AltaBird" in the title. That's like saying BushObama, or KetchupPeanutbutter. Just because you can have one and then the other doesn't mean it's appropriate to mash them together.

'Cept that's what a lot of us locals call them. Especially so since the advent of the combined season pass. Witness altabird.com. In fact on the Alta site it's listed as the AltaSnowbird pass.

 

[rfarren]

I'm having real issues with "AltaBird" in the title. That's like saying BushObama, or KetchupPeanutbutter. Just because you can have one and then the other doesn't mean it's appropriate to mash them together.

'Cept that's what a lot of us locals call them. Especially so since the advent of the combined season pass. Witness altabird.com. In fact on the Alta site it's listed as the AltaSnowbird pass.

For a local that makes sense. However, IMHO the culture of the two couldn't be more different. As a person who only goes there for 5 days at a time, I think it's not worth buying the AltaBird lift ticket. I prefer to spend my whole day in one or the other, preferably Alta. From my experience I think it's a bit frustrating to try to combine the two in one day. I only say that as a person who treats the LCC as a destination area. If I were a local I'd be going all over the two all the time.

 

[JC]

So here's the deal. We got a good early-"bird" special at the "bird" (ha ha) that includes both lodging and lift tix. We like the Cliff Lodge and the ability to eat at different places each night. The lift ticket at the Bird worked out to be $50/day. If we want to ski Alta, its something like a $13 upgrade I think (the tram pass is $72 and the Alta/Snowbird combined all-day pass ie $85). Even if the upgrade costs a bit more than that, it's not a big deal in the context of the overall cost of the trip If we hadn't gotten such a good deal for the Bird tix, we would have simply decided where we wanted to ski that day and purchased the appropriate ticket.

Since we already have Snowbird tickets, it sure would be easier to ski over to Alta than take ground transportation over. My wife isn't into hiking and long traverses (but at least she likes to ski!), hence the Mineral Basin question. Just tryin' to figure out if the Baldy Express will be open, so we can pop over the top into Alta without working too hard. Mineral Basin is certainly not my favorite part of Snowbird. That could make for lively thread though!

Whenever we travel to LCC we always think of Alta and Snowbird, not just one or the other, hence AltaBird. Better than Snalta right?

Hey JamesDeluxe, looks like you're right around the corner from me.

Thanks for all of the good advice and let's start praying for some snow!

 

[Admin]

Thanks for all of the good advice and let's start praying for some snow!

Well, after tonight's annual Ski Utah local media pre-season hype cocktail/hors d'oeuvres (sp?) get-together, I'm now pumped for the season. It always seems right around the corner after that event. This year it was at the new Dakota Lodge and Golden Door Spa at The Canyons, a most impressive facility.

~70 days and counting...

 

[Marc_C]

I'm having real issues with "AltaBird" in the title. That's like saying BushObama, or KetchupPeanutbutter. Just because you can have one and then the other doesn't mean it's appropriate to mash them together.

'Cept that's what a lot of us locals call them. Especially so since the advent of the combined season pass. Witness altabird.com. In fact on the Alta site it's listed as the AltaSnowbird pass.

For a local that makes sense. However, IMHO the culture of the two couldn't be more different. As a person who only goes there for 5 days at a time, I think it's not worth buying the AltaBird lift ticket. I prefer to spend my whole day in one or the other, preferably Alta. From my experience I think it's a bit frustrating to try to combine the two in one day. I only say that as a person who treats the LCC as a destination area. If I were a local I'd be going all over the two all the time.

Sure. For visitors I never recommend purchasing a combined ticket - it's just not worth it. Ski them individually on alternate days. Without a doubt, the gestalt is distinctly different between the two. I was restricting my comments strictly to the naming convention that arose since the [easy for tourists to find lift served] connection was created [there are quite a few others].

Despite being a local and having purchased the AltaBird pass for the past 6 seasons, thanks to the recent economy and cash flow (or lack thereof) and a dismal amount of billable hours this year, I'll probably opt to save the $500 and just purchase an Alta pass this season. Just do a day upgrade whenever and maybe buy the Bird spring pass ($279 starting in late March).