Camelback, PA 03/01/10

[jamesdeluxe]

Tough to do an encore after skiing the Catskills during the "Storm Of The Century," but I felt like making some twilight turns and headed toward the Delaware Water Gap late this afternoon for my annual visit to a Keystone State hill.

Camelback only picked up 18 inches from the storm, but it was enough to open up the woods, which is a rare occurrence in the Poconos... so I did something slightly original: rhododendron glade skiing. Hey, you have to make your own fun around here.

Conditions were good -- lots of loose sugar for high-speed turns and a few trails with really soft baby moguls. It's a short vert, only 850 feet, but with the two HSQs, I racked up lots of laps in three hours.

Here's the one double-black trail: Cliffhanger. About as steep as Snowbird's Big Emma.

 

[Powderqueen]

for those who don't know Snowbird's Big Emma...it's a green trail

 

[jamesdeluxe]

for those who don't know Snowbird's Big Emma...it's a green trail

Yes, but let's be honest... between the pitch (definitely not green, east or west) and more importantly the funnel effect (tons of skiers of all levels converging at the bottom of the mountain), giving it a beginner's rating is macho grandstanding.

 

[Admin]

for those who don't know Snowbird's Big Emma...it's a green trail

Yes, but let's be honest... between the pitch (definitely not green, east or west) and more importantly the funnel effect (tons of skiers of all levels converging at the bottom of the mountain), giving it a beginner's rating is macho grandstanding.

I disagree. Trail ratings are relative to that area only. Compared to the rest of Snowbird, Big Emma is indeed a green.

Grandstanding? Double, or even triple diamonds - that's grandstanding.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Trail ratings are relative to that area only. Compared to the rest of Snowbird, Big Emma is indeed a green.

Snowbird has legitimate (and comparatively deserted) green trails off the Baby Thunder lift. IMHO, Big Emma's trail rating should take into account the killing-field aspect, especially on high-traffic days. Are you telling me that Big Emma has the same pitch as the Baby Thunder trails?

My mistake, I didn't mean to turn this into yet another LCC thread. :-#

 

[Admin]

Are you telling me that Big Emma has the same pitch as the Baby Thunder trails?

Of course not! Nor am I telling you that Great Scott and Regulator Johnson have the same pitch, yet they're both blacks.

As I said above, it's all relative. Big Enema is considerably more benign than Powder Paradise, Mark Malou Fork, Bassackwards, etc., which are all Snowbird blues.

 

[Patrick]

Are you telling me that Big Emma has the same pitch as the Baby Thunder trails?

Of course not! Nor am I telling you that Great Scott and Regulator Johnson have the same pitch, yet they're both blacks.

As I said above, it's all relative. Big Enema is considerably more benign than Powder Paradise, Mark Malou Fork, Bassackwards, etc., which are all Snowbird blues.

I agree with Admin here. There is just so many types of runs you can use. The trail system in North America started off as containing only 3 types of runs (Blacn, Blue, Green). It evolved into 4 in many areas. More than that and it becomes confusing. Europe have had 4 types forever and SA seems to be using the same colour system (Black-Red-Blue-Green). An interesting note, Mont Sutton used to have that system in it's early years. I remember someone here or was it in another forum many years ago talking about a 10 types rating system. :roll:

The rating of a ski trail is mostly and uniquely based on the global trail network of the given ski area. If the rating system would be the same everywhere, you would have some hill with 90% of their trails fall in the same category and that would be totally useless.

PS. Talking about confusing the skier, I've seen an area with double greens and blue-greens... is a double green easier than a simple green? :roll:

 

[Tony Crocker]

If the rating system would be the same everywhere, you would have some hill with 90% of their trails fall in the same category and that would be totally useless.

That's why when I started writing resort guides 14 years ago I decided to use an absolute scale of 5 types, modeled after what Jackson Hole was using back then. The current "relative within the given ski area" system is a total joke, as the Big Emma example so clearly illustrates.

An absolute scale would be far more informative, but of course the Camelbacks, Okemos and Keystones of the world don't want to admit how flat they are, and the Jacksons and Snowbirds don't want to scare off the typical vacationers.

 

[Harvey]

Tony ....gotta agree with Patrick.

How is it going to be more informative to the skiers at Camelback if all trails are rated green?

I could see it being more useful to us internet jockeys when comparing things.

And maybe for those planning destintation vacations from other parts of the country.

But how much of that is happening in the Poconos?

 

[Tony Crocker]

How is it going to be more informative to the skiers at Camelback if all trails are rated green?

I'm guessing on my scale Camelback would be something like 40% green, 50% blue and 10% red, no true blacks much less yellows. I think that's reasonably informative.

In my neck of the woods I have Snow Summit at 0%, 7%, 30%, 52%, 11% from most to least difficult levels. Contrast to Mt. Baldy at 6%, 40%, 33%, 18%, 3%.