Cannon Mt 4-25-03

way2ski

New member
What a surprise at Cannon! April 25th and the mountain got 15-20 inches of powder! You wouldn't believe it unless you skiied it! There were two or three other people on the mountain. We single handedly tracked up Pollies and Avalanche! We logged 5000 vertical feet of untracked creamy powder! <BR> As soon as I figure out how to upload photos I'll add them.
 

Frankontour

New member
Hello Way2ski. To upload photos, see that page <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/board-formatting.html" TARGET="_top">http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/board-formatting.html</A>#images <BR> <BR>I can't give you the explanation in msg, as the system thinks I want to send a pic <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("> <BR> <BR>I'm eager to see those pics !!
 

way2ski

New member
OK... Heres: <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/8/2255.jpg" ALT="me with my new Karhu Jaks - love these skis!"> <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/8/2256.jpg" ALT="looking down Pollie's Folly"> <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/8/2257.jpg" ALT="avalanche"> <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/8/2258.jpg" ALT="Don shredding the cream on Pollie's">
 

way2ski

New member
Ok.. I'll get this eventually, photos: <BR> <BR>Love those Karhu Jaks!! <BR> <BR>View looking down Pollie's Folly <BR> <BR>Lower part of Avalanche <BR> <BR>Don shredding the creamy powder on pollie's. <BR> <BR>It's still too early to rake the yard in northern NH!!
 

Frankontour

New member
Super great pics, Way2ski, you got more powder than mine at la Reserve ! <BR> <BR>With the last report of Cannon by Lftgly, I thought that even a big snowstorm wouldn't be enough to ski without hitting many rocks, but as I see the ski tracks, it looks like the snowdepth is enough big to avoid that !
 

way2ski

New member
It was great, but it'll be gone Sunday with the rain today. Here's a view looking up Avalanche. <BR> <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/8/2259.jpg" ALT=" "> <BR>A lot of this was bare ground before the snow, yet we were able to ski it agressively and not bottom out... a real treat for so late in the year!
 

joegm

New member
why don't all you fools give it up... i mean, come on now it's april.. shouldn't you guys be thinking about playing golf or preping up captain nemo for the big launch into the lake, or something just a little bit more constructive than attempting to ski in what are clearly marginal april snow conditions, as evidenced by above photos. to put the heat on the resorts by posting these pictures is pretty unfair in my opinion. the real "no bull" is that resorts want to be able to offer you a "quality" <BR>product... and clearly they just cannot do that in april, again, as evidenced by above photos. you guys do yourselves no favors at all by insisting on posting photos that clearly support arguments made by resort management that the idea of a quality ski experience being had in april is a foolhardy notion indeed. hopefully all of you donkeys will get with the program and start towing the company line and support our ski area managers in their decisions to not attempt to market skiing in april and may and to not spin lifts in these "awful" snow conditions. anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that march 31st is the end of the ski season. what are you guys trying to prove anyway????? <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)">
 

Frankontour

New member
LOL, I am really far of seeing a tiny bit of sarcasm, in your comment, Joe <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> <BR> <BR>At least, there is a good point, when the ski areas close and that there is some snow storms after that. It's not in dec-jan-feb-mar that you can make first tracks all day long with nobody else on the mountain to waste the powder. (*) <BR> <BR>Ok, I made 3800' and Way 5000' yesterday, compared to 30000-40000 with chairlifts, but it's not a bad feeling, especially when you like to hike mountains during summer ! <BR> <BR>Hope Horstman will still be good for you this summer and that you recover fastly !! <BR> <BR>(*) PS... Nevertheless, I actually look for some partners to buy a mountain which would close only when there is NO MORE snow on the ground !! I don't care for few thin patches and I know I'm not alone !!!! lol
 

riverc0il

New member
in the ski area's defense... last week i titled my report from wildcat as "it's all ovah" - and at the time it clearly was. lftgly pics from cannon and mine from wildcat clearly show the base was gone. this was just a freak storm and as way2ski pointed out, will be gone in days. <BR> <BR>that said, most ski areas could have stayed open one week longer than they did. but these last two weekends wouldn't have made good operations with the exception of a storm as freakish as this whole ski year was. but i wholeheartedly support the sentiment.
 

Lftgly

New member
Good thing the lifts weren't open. It would really spoil it if they had opened to the public. Avalanche would have been all tracked up in 30 minutes! Nice tracks!
 

joegm

New member
river, a large part of the reason the bases were gone , is because most areas layed down on snowmaking...and it's all part and parcel of their thinking that there is no need for a base in april cause they have no intention of spinning lifts in april... if nature provides us a base in jan feb march, then it's all just gravy after that... if nature does not co-operate, then we supplement it with the fake. no one wants to ski in april and may anyways, right. i do not expect cranmore, and little black mountain nh and those places to blow their budgets and spin lifts in may...they are clear small little mom and pop operations that serve a great purpose for what they are.... i don't expect jay peak and burke and places that are so logistically challenged that it's a miracle that they even make money at all to push it either. but for a place like cannon and loon in central nh whose ride could not be any easier for metro boston and wildcat on the eastern side, with their good elevation and hard core following and massive n conway population draw, not to be able to create a superstar like trail that could easily push it into may in all but the most freakish years , is what i am po'd about. i know there was no base left at cannon and cat and the photos are a bit illusional... my point is they would not be illusional at all if there was any commitment from the season opening to snowmaking on just 1 trail.. and then events such as those that took place last week at cannon would be looked as as the gravy. bretton woods is still spinning lifts, there is a reason, actually there is probably a few. one of em is they make a somewhat decent commitment to blowing snow.. i know this because for the i was there every week burning turns on their very flat hill and they were blowing like crazy everyday, especially during that wicked 2 week cold snap in jan. every day on the drive over to bw from lincoln my buddy gil and i would turn our heads to the left and look at the front face of cannon... looking for some reason not to go to bretton... we rarely would see it... no snow guns going and if they were it was on 1 trail. by the time feb rolled around and the time for some real skiing at a real mountain like cannon came, not only were the guns silent, they were packed up and stored away, becasue of this " tremendous " natural snow that had come. natural snow is indeed tremendous, but it seems to me that is is also very- un-durable and when the temps start to rise, the base starts to fall... real quick. the other eason i would think that bretton is still spinning , although i don't know how long they pan to , is that they began marketing the idea last year, that they were going to do this, to their customers, which , i admit, are mostly 50 something retired folks who like to cruise the groomed. there ain't a whole lot of bumpin and jibbin going on at bretton but at least they are out in the 50f, blue bird days sliding around on the snow with lift access... i still say there are enough of us sick birds out there who would support a place like cat or cannon in addition to k, enough to justify 1 lift and one trail well into may... no cafe.. no ski school.. no promises...it is what it is... but like you said.. it ain't nuthin if you have no base!!!! <BR> thanks for the kind words frank.. i'm gettin better every day.. my lay off is going to allow me to get 17 days out in whistler... and i'll be bumpin every single one of em!!!!
 

Frankontour

New member
Good to hear that, Joe ! <BR>17 days on Blackcomb... hmmm, you're lucky. It's just a little vertical drop, on the glacier, I think, but at this time of the year, it's already good and it remains less expensive than New Zealand ! <BR> <BR>I have a question for you (and all the other ones) about the ski areas in NH. Which trail in New Hampshire could be a new "Superstar" and still be skiable up to late may. I mean, it needs : 1 chairlift dedicaced for the trail and passing HIGH over the trail (Nordique at St-Sauveur have this fuc*** problem and it's why it can't close late in may compared to West 70.) The trail must have a parking lot near it and have at least a little base lodge to sell tickets and cafeteria & all. The trail must be North or North East oriented to best keep the snow and it must be in a place with good natural snowfalls. <BR> <BR>I know many of you like the front trails of lower cannon, but do those trails have the points above to remain open a long time economically ? Never skied Cannon, but I imagine Profile could be interesting, if it wasn't at the top of mountain (2 lifts needed = problem). On the other mountains, what could be the possibilities of trails that encounter those criterions or at least few of them ? <BR> <BR>The debate is started <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> lol
 

Lftgly

New member
Frank, you said it, Profile is a candidate. It still had continuous cover on it as I drove by on my way home today. North-facing, the base of that quad is just under 3200' elevation, and tops out at 4000' elevation. It's ideal for holding late snow. <BR> <BR>Skylight and Tramway trails also still looked good. I bet Upper Ravine is still good, too, though all those switchbacks hide it from the valley. <BR> <BR>Two lifts required, but they <I>run the Tram anyway</I> starting in mid-May for tourists only (no skis allowed!). <BR> <BR>The restaurants are open for tourists at the base & summit when the Tram re-opens in mid-May. <BR> <BR>8-10 years ago, I think Joel Bourassa (?) was the Cannon mtn mngr for one year; he opened early season with uploading/downloading on the Tram, and skiing on Profile by riding the Cannonball quad. I loved it, but they killed that plan after the first year because family & intermediate skiers complained about the "experts only" terrain. It would be a good late season option, I think. <BR> <BR>They're only getting $9 a head for tourists round-tripping on the Tram. They might as well sell some $30 day tickets to skiers to ride the quad. <BR> <BR>I know there is a limited amount of "maintenance" that they do to the Tram between winter & summer, but it could probably be done in a week or two tops.
 

way2ski

New member
Cannon could blow 20 feet of snow on Profile (like Killington does on superstar), then run the Cannonball quad and the Tram until the 4th of July! They put that much snow in the terrain park and half pipe now. Cannon could build the reputation for late season skiing, but it takes more than one season to build an image. It frankly doesn't bother me that they don't open early. That early (October) snow making just creates an icy base you have to live with until April. I wouldn't mind a late season though... sun warm, light cloths, long days, tan,..Jimmy Buffet music on the deck, what's not to like about that?
 

Admin

Administrator
Staff member
This should prolly use a new thread on Liftlines, but I digress... <BR> <BR>"Two lifts required"? Well, depends on what you mean. You could run the tram for uploading and downloading, but that sticks you <I>atop</I> Profile, then you'd yo-yo the chair all day before downloading on the tram. Also, the tram summit gives you an on-mountain restaurant/shelter during the day. Perfect ... far better than Superstar, elevation-wise, and a much better downloading option than when K-Mart used to use Upper Cascade for early/late. <BR> <BR>What's Profile's vertical, 700 feet or so? That means the skiing would be from 3500-4200 feet in elevation. Perfect. <BR> <BR>Way back when in the mid-1960s, Walter Foegler's dream was to use Upper Ullr's Dream for early/late skiing at Jay. That would've required 3 lifts: the tram for uploading/downloading, the long-removed poma lift where the Poma Line trail now exists, and the Skyway Double Chair, also long since removed, to return to the Sky Haus to access the tram back down. Wayerhauser, owner of the mountain at the time and in a constant battle with Foegler, removed the Skyway chair after only 4 seasons to kill that plan. The Skyway chair ran from the Mixing Bowl, at the top of Everglade, to the climber's right side of the Sky Haus. It roughly followed the present-day Tuckerman Chute. It ran from 1965-1969.
 

Frankontour

New member
Sorry Marc to talk of liftlines in the no bulls, but as it's related with the conversations on no bulls, I thought it was the best place to ask the question. <BR> <BR>As everybody here look to think that Profile would be the best candidate, up to now, I wonder if "Mr Cancat" is still reading the no bulls. It would be interesting to have the opinion of a worker of the resort <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> <BR> <BR>It would also be good to explore other possibilities, if there is some, of course. By example, I wonder if Whiteface could remain open a long time, with it highest peak ?
 
Late season candidates? Let's not kid ourselves.. most ski areas have a hard time making money. Late season skiing has change in the last 20 years, especially since the ski area mergers. <BR> <BR>Profile would definately be a good candidate, however I don't see that happening (isn't Cannon government owned like Whiteface - I'm not sure). <BR> <BR>Profile reminds me of FIS at Sugarbush North which used to remain late, however once they were taken over by Sunday River (10ago?). Sunday River would try a few years to remain open until June, until it bought out Killington. <BR> <BR>Jay might be remote from major US center, but it is just a 90minutes drive from Montreal. They could run much longer, however I believe the owner (Mt. St.Sauveur international?) decided long ago that they were only going to push for one late ski area, that being St.Sauveur. That would also in part explain the early closing of Avila, Olympia, Gabriel which are all owned by the MSSI. <BR> <BR>Before Mt.St.Sauveur was the king of late season in Quebec, Gray Rocks would be the place to be (skiing and the ambiance was much better), it always remained open until Victoria Day weekend (3rd Monday in May). I remember skiing there on May 26, 1985. That year, Killington bearly made it to June that year, I know we skiied on Upper Cascades 2-3 days later. We had to remove our skis and walk on 4 different places. Since then Gray Rocks went under and was bought by Mt.Blanc. I believe Gray Rocks never opened again in May. I skiied Tremblant on April 11 and Gray Rocks was already closed even if it's like that could've been 100% open. (it also doesn't help being Tremblant's ne). <BR> <BR>The fact of the matter is, there are just to few late season skier for most areas and lifts to remain open. I believe Tremblant remained opened until June (4 years ago), but they probably say that it wasn't worth it. Now they just have date of closing set even before the season stars. This year was Easter Monday (April 21) - almost no one showed up except me, it rained all day (I had pre-bought my lift tickets).
 

riverc0il

New member
BW is still spinning for the same reason Kmart is, they have a hotel they can fill and they can offer ski for a few hours, plus catch a round of golf in the same day. that's it! their dozen or so green circles certainly aren't drawing in any one but the resort money spending crowd. <BR> <BR>most resorts don't blow snow past january. it simply isn't done except at places like kmart. most resorts simply can't afford it. i've certainly never ever seen a snow gun after january. <BR> <BR>the last day i skied wildcat, not much more than 100 people were there. most had season passes. at $26 a ticket, even if everyone paid for a ticket, the resort most definitely did not make more than $3000, not even enough to pay for employees on a long weekend holicay... let alone other operational costs. <BR> <BR>the bottom line is that their isn't demand for late season skiing. this isn't the field of dreams, if they build it... people will not come. even with marketing. it may seem criminal to die hards like us, but it's just good business not to loose money where it can't be made. <BR> <BR>i say good thing though, look at those freshies way2ski got to earn! could never earn those on lift serviced. i say this is a good thing.
 

Frankontour

New member
In fact, in Quebec, the big problem actually is the price of snowmaking. It's 2times more expensive that, for about 5 years. It's why every ski area just close in mid april, even though they would be able to close in mid-may. With the actual technology in snowmaking, I think St-Sauveur could close on mid-june without problem, but it's so expensive that they just close on mid-may. <BR> <BR>Jay Peak is effectively owned by MSSI, with Ski Morin Heights and Edelweiss Valley + the ones Patrick said. <BR> <BR>For Gray Rocks, yes, it was the "good old time". This year, they opened on dec 20 and closed on march 31. It's 3 months less than 15 years ago ! <BR> <BR>Tremblant effectively closed on June 1, 1997 and St-Sauveur on June 2, 1997. That year was incredible. Imagine, I skied Tremblant Top to Bottom of South side on May 17. They never did that again after that year. They closed on April 19, 1998 (I was there), April 24, 2000 (I was there too), April 29, 2001, April 21, 2002 and April 21, 2003. <BR> <BR>In 2000, it was after the huge snowfall of april and the skiers + employees were furious that the ski area was closing, as they had enough snow for at least 2 more weeks. After that year, they decided to blow less snow, to not have this "problem". <BR> <BR>For the skiers, it's a sure thing they're not really numerous in this time of the year, so it would be impossible to make a little bit of money, if there is 15 ski areas in the region competiting for the latest closure. But yesterday, I think MSS probably made a little bit of profit, with may be 300 skiers for 1 lift and few employees... with a cafeteria that bring enough $$$$. If Tremblant and Gray Rocks were open at the same moment, it's sure that it wouldn't have been 300 skiers there yesterday and probably that 0 of the 3 ski areas had made enough $ to pay their staff and chairlift utilisation.
 
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