Cannon, NH: 01/16/05

[riverc0il]

i believe if new england had not seen the extremely high temperatures and NCP earlier this week, today might have been a fabulous day on the heels of what cannon says was 4-6" at the end of the NCP warm event. however, conditions were worse than last week in the terrain i prefer, better somewhat on the top of the mountain.

apparently cannonball went down yesterday but was operating today. however, zoomer was down this morning and cannon had ski patrol at the top of the front face trails warning people if they skied those trails to use tram cut back as it would be 15-20 minutes before the triple was loading. props to a well placed strategy and solid execution on customer service. i warmed up on rocket and hit the tram to sample the summit.

no wind! i rode the tram three times and only once felt the tiniest bump going into the station. what a rare day up high on cannon, and to not even notice a bump while the tram was docking was eeiry. tramway started off really nice but got scraped up good later on. profile was really hard pack, boarder line frozen granular. skylight was more of the same and not too fun. went back to the front face via bypass which looked and skied ugly unlike last week. bumps on skiers right of extension were nice, but variable!

avalanche, oh man. grass stains everywhere in the bumps skiers right. did that stop me? heck no! slim pickings but an enjoyable descent. my comment to a fellow skier: "talk about making lemonade from lemons!" just makes us appreciate the real stuff even more. over on rocket, skier's right bumps were pretty hard and not too friendly. zoomer had the goods with decent skiers right bumps up top which got progressively worse until the snow to grass ratio was pulling even near the bottom. still skiable though without much worry of base damage. also, skiers left exactly under the lift was a sweet line of fluff where the groomers didn't get to and snow got pushed over towards. cycled zoomer about a half dozen times.

so i couldn't resist temptation and tried mitt :shock: couldn't find any reports assessing the conditions so i took the gamble hoping that there was just a tiny bit of base for that 4-6" to have fallen on. guess what.... no base. :? i got three worth while turns out of the adventure, which likely was about 40 minutes long. taft was pretty much straight lining and looking for bail options to check your speed. 3 or 4 tracks proceeded me which took the same tactic. opting for barrons i quickly discovered no real base had solidified and estimated about three inches of snow or so had nothing underneath. weeeeeeeee!!!! took over a half hour of slow measured and delicate turns three at a time with occasional side stepping to get down. knew it wasn't gonna be much and wasn't gonna be too good, but didn't figure it was gonna be plain ugly and completely not even worth it. but i was getting board and needed some excitement. :lol: don't waste your time until we get at least another 6"+ that can solidfy as a base and even then it's still gonna be a pretty rough time of it.

got me wondering how any ski areas ever made it through the tough times. january 16th and nothing! it's no wonder the list of lost ski areas is so long, just a few bad snow years could cripple an operation without (or pre-) snowmaking.

lower cannon was beaten to crap and tuckerbrook area was about the same. really wouldn't recommend cannon for learning skiers right now, not until we get another 6"+ to refreshen the surface (hey, looks like that'll be this week, awesome!). i managed to avoid the main routes on the peabody side so i can't comment on those, i saw snow being blown over there and the report said snowmaking on lower hard and turnpike. i was expecting refresher on the main routes, but i can understand the need to get those trail numbers up higher ASAP. two guns were set up over on banshee but not going, guess they're blowing there next?

 

[Lftgly]

Snowmakers did as good a job as they could this year, give 'em a pat on the back. Any day now (yesterday?) Billy will lay off the 2nd & 3rd shift. Other than day shift (which has to start up, blow snow, shut down and drain the hoses every shift), snow making is done for the season except for 'patching up'.

The best goods were Saturday morning. Glad you found something left. Where there was any base left, other than boilerplate iceflows, the new 4"-6" was delightful. Unfortunately, as you found Sunday, there's nothing at all under the new snow in most places. Where there is grass, it's still great skiing, but there are plenty of rocks in hiding.

In a lean snow year, we have to learn to manage our expectations, and be grateful for what we get. Thanks for the Mittersill report; I can't blame you for being so optimistic, but what were you thinking (?!?), LOL. The Sherburne Trail, it's not!

I spent a few hours this summer brushing some of the worst on one of the old Mittersill trails (which shall remain nameless), and saw signs that others had also, but we barely made a dent. Nice pictures. The only openings on Barons appear to be the rock ledges where nothing but moss and grass grows. Too bad so much effort is volunteered brushing glades, while the old open trails become overgrown.

I'm wondering who's going to be first to ski Tucker Brook, if they haven't already. Steve, did you see any tracks down the Thirteen Turns entrance?

 

[joegm]

" done for the season except for patching up " :? :? :? .. patching up what? how can any place that expects to be taken seriously and get people to pay to go there be getting ready to shut down snow making operations :evil: :shock: ....i don't mean to rip on cannon , but if that is true, that is ridiculous

 

[riverc0il]

agreed regarding the snowmakers doing the best they could. for most of the snow making trails to be open now and no trails ever slipped backwards into closed territory is a major accomplishment. joegm, there really isn't much more snow to be blown at cannon at this point. as i mentioned, lower hard and turnpike had snow blowing over the weekend. then it's just the banshee slopes and two more slopes in the tuckerbrook area and the rest should fill in with natural.

not surprised to hear saturday was decent and way better than sunday most likely. i had to work saturday or that would have been my pick for the weekend.

i wasn't so optimistic about mittersill... rather the problem was i wasn't pessimistic enough! regarding what was i thinking, i think that is the problem... i wasn't, lol. i was desperate. wasn't expecting cover like the sherbie last week, but figured it was at least worth the base damage. oh well, it was a valient effort. indeed, interesting note about some of the glades being better cut than the main routes. likely because any one cutting isn't spending much time on barrons!

i can't imagine tuckerbrook having been skied yet. maybe someone could have skinned up the lower section but 13 turns can't be skiable at all i would imagine. i didn't manage to turn my head, so i don't know if tracks were made in there yet. would take a sicker bird than me to try that right now!

 

[riverc0il]

fwiw, here's what cannon says in regards to snow making from this morning's conditions email:

Snowmakers are taking advantage of the cold to keep adding on new
trails- Look for Lower Hard and Turnpike later this week. those guys won't
be satisfied for a while yet. We expect to add more terrain, and start
on the terrain park as snowmaking continues.

 

[joegm]

IF CANNON WANTS TO RUN THEIR OPERATION BY BLOWING A FIXED AMOUNT OF SNOW EVERY YEAR, REGARDLESS OF THE TIMES DURING THE SEASON THE NATURAL SNOWFALL MAY OR MAY NOT FALL, THAT?S FINE.. THEY CAN CHOOSE TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS ANY WAY THEY WANT. BUT IF THEY THINK THEY ARE GOING TO GET PEOPLE ( THE GENERAL PUBLIC RECREATIONAL SKIERS, NOT THE CANNONITES- THEY DON?T MAKE MONEY OF CANNONITES :roll: ) TO GO THERE AND PAY WITH THAT APPROACH, I THINK THEY ARE WRONG?FOR ME TO READ THE REPORTS OUT OF CANNON AND COMBO THAT WITH ASSERTIONS THAT THE SNOWMAKING OPERATIONS ARE ? WINDING DOWN? , THAT PRETTY MUCH ELIMINATES ANY POSSIBLITY OF ME GOING TO CANNON AND PAYING FOR A LIFT TICKET, UNLESS THERE IS A DRAMATIC TURN AROUND IN THE NATURAL SNOWFALL. A RECREATIONAL SKIER WHO GOES TO CANNON, SKIS ON THE CURRENT SURFACE AND GETS WIND THAT THERE SNOW MAKING IS JUST ABOUT DONE, I WOULD THINK WOULD HAVE THE SAME ATTITUDE. OBVOIUSLY CANNON DOES NOT WANT THAT IDEA OUT THERE THAT LFTGLY FLOATED ABOUT THEM SCALING IT DOWN AS EVIDENCED BY THE SPIN QUOTE FROM STEVE. LIKE I?VE ALWAYS SAID I HAVE NEVER AND WILL NEVER RIP A PLACE FOR THINGS THAT ARE OUT OF THEIR CONTROL.. CANNON CAN?T MAKE IT SNOW NATURALLY- CANNON CAN?T CONTROL THE WIND- CANNON CAN?T DO A LOT OF THINGS ---- BUT THEY CONTROL SHUTTING DOWN SNOWMAKING IN THE THIRD WEEK OF JAN WITH A 12 INCH BASE- AND IF THEY ARE DOING THAT PRIOR TO EXHAUSTING THEIR WATER SUPPLY AND DON?T WANT TO CUT INTO THE MARGINS AND BLOW MORE SNOW BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT SELLING AS MANY CHEESEBURGERS BECAUSE NO ONE IS SKIING THERE SO FAR, WELL I GUESS THAT?S FINE TOO.. BUT THEY ARE DREAMING IF THEY THINK PEOPLE ARE GONNA GO THERE. HAVING NO ONE GO THERE MIGHT BE A SHORTSIGHTED GOOD THING FOR THE CANNONITES.....ESPECIALLY THOSE CANNONITES WHO LIKE SKIING ON CRAP ALL SEASON AND PUTTING THE STICKS IN THE CLOSET ON MARCH 25TH OR SO :roll:

 

[Tony Crocker]

I agree with joegm's sentiments completely. You can bet that Big Bear and Mt. High are making snow every chance they can after the rain deluge of Jan. 8-11. They have a 2-4 foot base, but I doubt they think the SoCal jibbers will show up if the terrain parks are bulletproof.

But before we "tear Cannon a new one" perhaps someone should verify lftgly's comment about snowmaking being done for the season.

 

[Anonymous]

I think you're all missing the point of Cannon Mt. It's owned by the state. The people who run the place don't have high stakes in how much money it makes. If someone really wanted to make a lot of money off cannon they'd put a high speed quad over the ridge to mitersil and expand snowmaking, making it the best mountain in the state hands down. Unfortunately 2nd and 3rd shift snowmakers probably are done for the year and i'd be very surprised to see an expansion to mitersil in the next decade.

There're no condos, limited snowmaking, heavy winds, and steep (usually partially) ungroomed terrain. If you don't like it, go to loon.

 

[Lftgly]

A correction: the skeleton crew will blow snow nights, not "day shift", to take advantage of "off peak" electric rates. Tuesday was going to be the last day of 3 shifts, but rumor was that management might delay the lay offs.

 

[Patrick]

I was planning a day trip from Montreal on Sunday, it will definately have to wait. I was hoping a few weeks ago that the timing would be okay to hit Cannon and Tuckerbrook (on my wish list).

It's been already a couple of years since the last time I have been to Cannon.

tred said:

I think you're all missing the point of Cannon Mt. It's owned by the state. The people who run the place don't have high stakes in how much money it makes. If someone really wanted to make a lot of money off cannon they'd put a high speed quad over the ridge to mitersil and expand snowmaking, making it the best mountain in the state hands down. Unfortunately 2nd and 3rd shift snowmakers probably are done for the year and i'd be very surprised to see an expansion to mitersil in the next decade.

There're no condos, limited snowmaking, heavy winds, and steep (usually partially) ungroomed terrain. If you don't like it, go to loon.

That's the way I like Cannon. The place is a gem. If it were privately owned it might have a bunch of improvement :? , change more and be in the RED. :x

 

[Lftgly]

Yes, yes, please go to Loon. I hear the sun actually shines down there sometimes. Cannon is rocky, windy, icy, cold, steep, ungroomed terrain (when we're lucky)...

Patrick, give it another month, and check back at Presidents Day (I know that's not a holiday observed in Quebec, but you get the idea, LOL). It could all change. Maybe we'll be skiing Tuckerbrook in another 4weeks. Lord knows I'm praying. It's "warmed up" into the teens, and snowing lightly tonight. Maybe 1" of fresh dry snow on the ground in town. Someone in the bar who drove up from Lincoln tonight said there was 5" in the Notch (I think he's delusional, but we can hope there's more at higher elevations). I also talked to an unemployed snowmaker tonight... yes, it's true.

 

[Patrick]

Patrick, give it another month, and check back at Presidents Day (I know that's not a holiday observed in Quebec, but you get the idea, LOL). It could all change. Maybe we'll be skiing Tuckerbrook in another 4weeks.

Yes, I have been planning a trip around this time of the year for the last two years. I decided (as always) while in Montreal, why not hit places I love. I will be at Ste.Anne on Monday, MRG on Tuesday for Roll Back the Clock days and get to work in Ottawa Wednesday with a race that evening.

Presidents Day is not observed elsewhere in Canada either :wink: , I live and work in Ontario. BUT my daughter has a PD day on that day, so we might used our weekend vouchers (lodge-ski) for Titus (never been, but should be fun with the family).

 

[joegm]

tred, i don't what your political leanings are , but:
a ski area making money , i would think would be in everyone's interest. swaying that the place does not have any interest in making money because it is run by the state is a typical liberal democrat opinion.... i work for the government, and the amounts of money that are wasted are incredible...and a lot of it becasue of the attitude among a disturbingly large % unionized gov't employees ( i am one ) and gov't mid level managers ) is " it's not my money, what do i care "....your line about the place being owned by the state and therefore not caring as much about making money , is to me , a scary way to think and comes close to this philosophy of " what do i care... it's not my money " attitude... and that is reflected in the product that cannon seems to be offering these days my point is not to have a political debate about economics... but the economic ( s ) policy of a ski resort is the issue at hand... how can a business not be very concerned about making a profit?.... if they are not, they ought to be out of business.... is mad river as concered about as high a margin as the ASC and it's resorts.. probably not.. and they don't have to be and neither does cannon.. but to think that they could have the attitude of not placing a high priority on offering a high quality product that will make them money is just crazy.... without capitalism, we would all be earning our turns on tele skis instead of sitting on doppyelmayr hsq's....not that there is anything wrong with that, as jerry seinfeld once said

 

[riverc0il]

i would argue cannon is very concerned with pulling in more skier visits and money. the past few years, in my opinion, cannon was worked hard to dumb down it's "skier's mountain" and "expert's mountain" image and broaden it's target demographic. the addition of the tuckerbrook area and that aweful slogan they thankfully got ride of "the big easy" are two prime examples that cannon is trying to draw in more families and lower level skiers. also, i think the base lodge addition that beefed up their rental, tuning, and retail facilities went a long way in addition to what i think is a fantastic ski school from what i've seen (never having taken a lesson, but i enjoy listening in on lessons and watching from afar as someone that has recently considered part time instruction on the side).

joegm, you really hit the nail on the head with your assessment of gov waste of money. it's rediculous! when ever i see wasteful things being done by a state run instistution, i always :roll: i see it often as i work for a company contracted out to run an operation for a state institution (no naming names here!). i always say to myself, "that is exactly why we are contracted to do this job. we make them money whereas if they were running this show they'd be loosing money big time." i am all for not privatizing everything and having some gov functions doing their own thing (for example i am strongly apposed to leasing cannon like they did sunapee which now faces the prospect of on hill development and a take over mentality), but sadly when profit isn't a motivating factor, waste occurs. i lean socialist but still must admit that fact.

 

[riverc0il]

just checked out cannon's trail report and i might have missed this before, but apparently "lower hardscrabble entrance" is now a seperate trail from "lower hardscrabble."
:?

 

[Anonymous]

I think you're all missing the point of Cannon Mt. It's owned by the state. The people who run the place don't have high stakes in how much money it makes. ...

My claim was that the guys who are in charge of the big decisions at Cannon don't see the resultant profit. If an ASC mountain makes money the guys at ASC get that money for their pocket. This is not so at Cannon, because the STATE, not the OPERATORS, see the profits. So although your political rant was entertaining, it has nothing to do with my statement or the operation of Cannon mountain. I guess the opportunity to call someone a "typical liberal democrat" as if it was a swear word was just too good to pass up.

 

[Patrick]

tred, i don't what your political leanings are , but:
a ski area making money , i would think would be in everyone's interest.

Sorry Joe, aiming to make money cannot be the prime directive. Skiing as to be. Intrawest is making money, but it had to do a few things to get there (I am specifically thinking about Tremblant). Here are a few points;

1) Cartering to the most common denominator. Expensive Grooming, widening and blasting trails, HSQ, etc. All these "improvement" have increased to price of skiing. Paid parking. Is the skiing better? It's all a matter of opinion.

2) Intrawest makes it's money on real-estate, that's were the focus is. Bringing more skier/people to the mountain (sorry resort).

3) No late season skiing, they close around April 20th even if they made it to June in 1997.

Government might not be perfect, but private interest aren't necessarly either. I know a must greater proportion of ski areas running in the red that are run by private interest than government ones.

The private might invest a whole lot of money with their improvement, charge more to the average skier AND sometimes even go bankcrupt and leave creditors pennies instead of dollars.

Waste and excess happens in the private sector too, but the public aren't necessarly aware of it unless there is a scandal à la Enron.