Challenges of Running An Independent NE Ski Area

[berkshireskier]

53 degrees (F) here this morning in southern New England with heavy rain and very high winds. Yesterday, it looked the frozen arctic around here with completely snow-covered ground and now this morning, we have green grass in our back yard and much of the snow has melted away overnight. UGH. Rain throughout all of New England and well up into Quebec too. This is why you NEVER want to own a ski area in southern New England (or even northern New England). It is supposed to turn colder later today and cold over the weekend, so snow making can resume for the Xmas week holiday.

 

[Tony Crocker]

This is why you NEVER want to own a ski area in southern New England (or even northern New England).

I'm sure many of them have been profitable in the long run. The question is how much worse might it get and if so at what rate. My conclusion as researched here is that the Northeast has always had a rain problem but that it is getting worse very gradually. There is no question that the rain issue is worse in southern New England, Catskills and the mid-Atlantic than in northern New England and upstate NY.

 

[jasoncapecod]

I'm sure many of them have been profitable in the long run. The question is how much worse might it get and if so at what rate. My conclusion as researched here is that the Northeast has always had a rain problem but that it is getting worse very gradually. There is no question that the rain issue is worse in southern New England, Catskills and the mid-Atlantic than in northern New England and upstate NY.

I have been skiing since 76
Rain has always been a issue

 

[berkshireskier]

I'm sure many of them have been profitable in the long run. The question is how much worse might it get and if so at what rate. My conclusion as researched here is that the Northeast has always had a rain problem but that it is getting worse very gradually. There is no question that the rain issue is worse in southern New England, Catskills and the mid-Atlantic than in northern New England and upstate NY.

I have always wondered about the financials for some of the smaller, individually-owned ski areas, especially in southern New England and lower NY state. I realize they do take in a fair amount of money pre-season from season ticket sales, race programs sales, etc. I did once ask an acquaintance of mine who was the marketing director at a local ski area how many season tickets they sold each year and, needless to say, he told me that was a trade secret and couldn't be revealed.

Obviously, they take in a lot of money from daily ticket sales, lessons, cafeteria food, ski shop sales, etc. but it is a short season here in NE and I've been told that they make about 50% of their money over Xmas vacation, MLK weekend and the Presidents' Week vacation period, so if the weather wipes out or affects those time periods, it's a big loss of revenue that can't be made up later in the season. And they also have huge electric bills for snowmaking and they need to employ a substantial number of seasonal and full-time employees, plus various capital expenses - new chairlifts or snowmaking equipment or lodge upgrades or renovations. Plus insurance costs and other expenses. I have to believe it can sometimes be tough to make large amounts of money for the owners.

 

[Skieric]

I have always wondered about the financials for some of the smaller, individually-owned ski areas, especially in southern New England and lower NY state. I realize they do take in a fair amount of money pre-season from season ticket sales, race programs sales, etc. I did once ask an acquaintance of mine who was the marketing director at a local ski area how many season tickets they sold each year and, needless to say, he told me that was a trade secret and couldn't be revealed.

Obviously, they take in a lot of money from daily ticket sales, lessons, cafeteria food, ski shop sales, etc. but it is a short season here in NE and I've been told that they make about 50% of their money over Xmas vacation, MLK weekend and the Presidents' Week vacation period, so if the weather wipes out or affects those time periods, it's a big loss of revenue that can't be made up later in the season. And they also have huge electric bills for snowmaking and they need to employ a substantial number of seasonal and full-time employees, plus various capital expenses - new chairlifts or snowmaking equipment or lodge upgrades or renovations. Plus insurance costs and other expenses. I have to believe it can sometimes be tough to make large amounts of money for the owners.

You have nicely summarized why we are seeing the consolidation that has been happening over the last 10 years. Vail, Alterra, Boyne, Powder, all have diversified geographically to reduce annual risk. As highlighted this year, its rare for all geographic regions to have a bad year.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I have always wondered about the financials for some of the smaller, individually-owned ski areas, especially in southern New England and lower NY state.

You should follow Stuart. He is fascinated with mom-and-pop ski areas, and why some are more successful than others. A lot of that comes from his formative ski years in Michigan.

 

[Skieric]

You should follow Stuart. He is fascinated with mom-and-pop ski areas, and why some are more successful than others. A lot of that comes from his formative ski years in Michigan.

Mount St Louis is a small 550' vertical family run area near me. https://mountstlouis.com/pdf/MSLM-Trail-Guide.pdf. I believe they have been owned by the same family since opening in the 60's. I am am always impressed how they manage to invest so heavily back into the mountain. They have a state of the art very high density Techno Alpine fan guns running along all of the trails and have many modern detachable 6+ seat chairs including this very high tech 8 person Doppelmayr D line lift with heated seats. https://liftblog.com/adventure8-mt-st-louis-moonstone-on/. I suspect they invest every single penny they earn back into the mountain and the infrastructure.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

many modern detachable 6+ seat chairs including this very high tech 8 person Doppelmayr D line lift with heated seats.

I'm always fascinated by indie ski areas with modest vertical drops using expensive detachable lifts. What's the thinking behind that? How much uphill time could it possibly save vs. a fixed grip?

My personal favorite was this one at Söllereck, Austria (however, that wasn't a Mom and Pop joint).

Unfathomable in the U.S. -- a six-seat heated chair with a bubble covering less than 600 vertical feet!