Holiday Ski Plans, again!

socal

Member
Last season we were supposed to go to Jackson Hole over the holidays but ended up canceling due to snow conditions. We went to Alyeska and had a great trip. This year being "safer" we booked Snowbird figuring it was more reliable. Well, situation doesn't look great. We live in LA so we could give up 2 nights as a penalty and cancel with the idea being to just drive up to Mammoth. We'd be going 12/27-1/1. I need to make the call to cancel by the 13th. Normally I'd consider just canceling and going to Hawaii but we have a beach trip planned for spring break so we want to get the kids on the snow for sure.

Thoughts?
 
Last season we were supposed to go to Jackson Hole over the holidays but ended up canceling due to snow conditions. We went to Alyeska and had a great trip. This year being "safer" we booked Snowbird figuring it was more reliable. Well, situation doesn't look great. We live in LA so we could give up 2 nights as a penalty and cancel with the idea being to just drive up to Mammoth. We'd be going 12/27-1/1. I need to make the call to cancel by the 13th. Normally I'd consider just canceling and going to Hawaii but we have a beach trip planned for spring break so we want to get the kids on the snow for sure.

Thoughts?
Mammoth is due more snow than Utah is. No brainer.
 
You're comfortable with weather forecasts 16 days out?
Well that's interesting.
I don't know North American weather. I am relatively familiar with weather on our big island continent though. Forecasts here in winter are relatively reliable. If there is no precipitation in the 10 day forecast it is extremely unlikely that rainfall will 'pop up' within that time frame. In summer that isn't the case. We can get have thunderstorm conducive conditions form within a couple of days.
You're obviously suggesting that winter storms can form within the 10/14 day forecast window in US/Canada?
 
Here's what Opensnow says, and the reason we probably make the call to switch. Also turns out Snowbird will give us a credit to use this season for the 2 night penalty so I guess a reason to make a trip out.

Extended Forecast​

Brace yourself for more bad news...

We have strong agreement on high pressure re-developing in force by December 19th and likely carrying through toward Christmas. At times, we have seen models show storms trying to sneak into the area right around or just before Christmas, but at this point there is no trend in that direction. Overall, the pattern seems to favor ridging through most of the rest of December.
 
Here's what Opensnow says
I assume that is the Utah forecast? (I don't have Opensnow).

Last I heard over here in Colo the expectation is several very small fronts with no more than a couple inches per every 3-5 days for a couple weeks. Must be sneaking over the top of the ridge and coming in from the NW...
 
I assume that is the Utah forecast? (I don't have Opensnow).

Last I heard over here in Colo the expectation is several very small fronts with no more than a couple inches per every 3-5 days for a couple weeks. Must be sneaking over the top of the ridge and coming in from the NW...
Yes, that's Utah. Below is the next 10 days forecast and the extended forcast discussion. Biggest thing for me is that Mammoth is basically totally open, so even if it doesn't snow, it'll be fine.

Extended Forecast​

There's another weak system that we might see come through Monday, December 16th. I will get into the details of that system in a few days assuming it's still in the forecast.

But beyond that... there's a good chance we go back to a dry pattern through the 3rd week of December.

I will continue to monitor the models to see when we can break back into a more active pattern but it might not be for a while again...

1733967112256.png
 
Sure, for what it's worth Opensnow is $35 for the year, it's totally worth it.


Jackson Hole:

Extended Forecast​

Outlook for Monday (Dec 16) to Tuesday (Dec 17):

After a lull in the action during the day on Monday, a weaker storm is likely to move through on Monday night and Tuesday with another shot of light to moderate snow possible.

733929442-RI88wqkMeo3psFHUenX8QGl5pO307DIK88I7Ryrq.jpg


There are some model disagreements on the strength and likelihood of snow during this storm. The American GFS and Canadian Models are coming in stronger, while the ensemble and deterministic versions of the European Model are coming in much weaker with no guarantees of any meaningful snow.

However, the AI version of the European Model is coming in stronger and more in line with the GFS and Canadian.

So I think there's a good chance we'll pick up at least some snow with a refresh possible for Tuesday skiing, but overall confidence is low.

Outlook for December 18-25:

In the week leading up to Christmas, a ridge of high pressure will build over the Western U.S. and the main storm track will shift northward. A trough will remain off the West Coast, and in between these features, the jet stream will direct moisture-laden storms into Washington and BC.

We will be on the drier side of this pattern, but it's a "dirty ridge" setup, meaning we could see frequent cloud cover, mild temperatures, and perhaps some occasional snowfall sneaking into the area.

733929635-wEvPTgTReUjJIm17t0Hl0UibmKCGx6ygh1RZb2Nz.jpg


Temperatures are projected to be well above normal in our region and throughout all of Western North America. This does not account for possible temperature inversions, however, which could lead to colder temperatures in the Jackson Hole Valley.

733929649-ZYUrQrS4oRSGZeCaC1nSmS5DbA61W60oR2EiUqax.jpg


The projected precipitation anomaly for the 7-day period from December 19th-25th from the European Model shows a dry signal over most of the Western U.S. including the Tetons and a wet signal over Western Washington and British Columbia.

733929665-EUt3yLMJFnaYqNPmrReyuYnoFcNuum7DrIeyF4FE.jpg


The European Ensemble Meteogram below shows bars of projected 24-hour snow amounts from 50 different model simulations stacked vertically out to 2 weeks.

The more solid-colored vertical columns indicate a higher chance of snowfall for a given 24-hour period, with gray lines indicating light snow (less than 2 inches) and blue/purple lines indicating heavier snow. These are low-resolution projections, but give an idea of the big picture.

We can see high confidence of a storm this weekend, lower confidence in a storm early next week and then drier conditions to follow. About half of the 50 model simulations have some snow during the December 22-25 timeframe, which indicates low confidence.

733929676-FDAcliEETxN827vBkvfMFFt8FN6Vx88Xb88D6zbR.jpg


Aspen
Next Week & Beyond


Following the light refresh on Sunday, December 15, we should receive mostly dry and cool conditions on Monday. We'll then be tracking yet another light refresh around Tuesday, December 17, and into Wednesday, December 18. Again, nothing overly impressive.

Looking further ahead, I still think that we'll enter another mostly dry pattern as head toward the winter solstice and into the week of Christmas. This can of course change but the longer-range models are pretty consistent in building in another "high and dry" pattern like we saw in early December.

Our snowpack will likely be hovering right around normal as we enter the final 10 days of December and more skiable terrain will open over the next week so all will still be well as we close out 2024.
 
Christmas looks tricky for Utah and Jackson Hole, but good for Mammoth, Whistler, Targhee, and possibly Sun Valley. Colorado is looking solid as well.

1733980713131.png




The West Coast
1733980885090.png

1733981184230.png

1733981596328.png
 

Attachments

  • 1733981623702.png
    1733981623702.png
    158.6 KB · Views: 79
Last edited:
Thanks. If I wasn’t living in Australia and doing a one off trip to USA I’d definitely subscribe to Open Snow. I did so before our 2020 trip.
 
Last season we were supposed to go to Jackson Hole over the holidays but ended up canceling due to snow conditions. We went to Alyeska and had a great trip. This year being "safer" we booked Snowbird figuring it was more reliable. Well, situation doesn't look great. We live in LA so we could give up 2 nights as a penalty and cancel with the idea being to just drive up to Mammoth. We'd be going 12/27-1/1. I need to make the call to cancel by the 13th. Normally I'd consider just canceling and going to Hawaii but we have a beach trip planned for spring break so we want to get the kids on the snow for sure.

Thoughts?

Snowbird is only reporting 10-15% open. Alta is better, but I am not sure how fun it would be with the crowds.

Mammoth is looking strong and easy to drive.

Whistler would likely have the best, but EPIC.
 
A key issue is topography. Snowbird and Jackson need a much deeper base to open a majority of terrain than Alta and Mammoth do.

So the call for Mammoth over Snowbird this Christmas is indeed a no-brainer.

I need to make my usual family vacation editorial comment to socal.
Normally I'd consider just canceling and going to Hawaii but we have a beach trip planned for spring break so we want to get the kids on the snow for sure.
Looking to the future: Take the beach vacation at Christmas and the ski vacation at spring break. You won't have to worry about whether there's enough water at the beach at Christmas. :smileyvault-stirthepot: The vast majority of one week ski trips while I was working were during my son Adam's spring breaks.
Whistler would likely have the best, but EPIC.
Yes, Larry Schick just spent a week+ at Whistler and gave a rave review.

How much of Mammoth you would want to ski right now is debatable by what we saw the last two days. It's far from the 95% advertised. However it will improve with the Thursday and weekend storms.
 
Last edited:
A key issue is topography. Snowbird and Jackson need a much deeper base to open a majority of terrain than Alta and Mammoth do.

So the call for Mammoth over Snowbird this Christmas is indeed a no-brainer.

I need to make my usual family vacation editorial comment to socal.

Looking to the future: Take the beach vacation at Christmas and the ski vacation at spring break. You won't have to worry about whether there's enough water at the beach at Christmas. :smileyvault-stirthepot: The vast majority of one week ski trips while I was working were during my son Adam's spring breaks.

Yes, Larry Schick just spent a week+ at Whistler and gave a rave review.

How much of Mammoth you would want to ski right now is debatable by what we saw the last two days. It's far from the 95% advertised. However it will improve with the Thursday and weekend storms.
I've skied long enough and been on this forum long enough to know March is 100% a better option if you had to chose but we usually do ski trips for both Christmas and Spring break. Remember, I was stuck at snowbird for a week in April 2023! It just happend my whole family inlcuding grandparents, siblings and grandchildren are going spring break this year.

We have Mammoth booked for MLK and also in March but it looks like we can go to Snowbird MLK (assuming there's snow!) and use the 2 night credit they won't refund us at the Cllif. It all works out. We probably will continue to book Christmas trips and just call audibles at the last minute our cancelation policiies allow since its been ok the last 2 years and we are bound to catch a good snow year if we keep booking LCC.

Also, we 100% would just go to Whistler but its Epic....
 
I am always impressed with how Aspen Mountain can get up to 95% open on a 24" base around Christmas.

But I have also always argued - that if Telluride can reach 36-40" by Christmas, almost 80-90% of its pre-2000 expansion is open.

It does look like it's snowing heavily in Jackson, but Jackson Hole is a disaster - 20 or 30 out of 100+ runs open?


When resorts want $200+/day and fail to open 1/3 to 1/2 of their terrain during their busiest week...what a mess.


I have been visiting my house, friends, and family in Florida and the Caribbean (tennis, scuba, sailing) for the last 10+ years versus skiing because skiing is a lousy value over Christmas and New Year. And I have free lodging/tickets/family/house in Telluride?

For example, I am going to Florida to check on my house, visit my parents, and go with my partner to Dominica (a small remote eco island in the Caribbean) to dive and hike soon.

Skiing? No worries, it will come....



1734282060744.png
 
Last edited:
I'll be interested in your trip to Dominica. Most of my time in the Caribbean has been on cruises (exceptions Belize 2004, Cozumel 2014 and Cuba 2017). But from what I read, Dominica is near the top of the list where a cruise port call would be inadequate.

I have expressed the same sentiments about skiing at Christmas vs. spring numerous times. In fairness I do not criticize people with families like socal who try to ski both school vacation periods.
 
This is the last time in my life that I will be forced to be in a location close to skiing at Christmas.
I do have many extremely fond memories of early season ski trips though. And I’ll note that we’ve never had anything less than decent skiing conditions on any of those trips. This coming one may be the exception to that but I’m betting we’ll get some fun on skis somewhere. The Mountain Collective pass may not provide the usual great value this time though.
 
I'll be interested in your trip to Dominica. Most of my time in the Caribbean has been on cruises (exceptions Belize 2004, Cozumel 2014 and Cuba 2017). But from what I read, Dominica is near the top of the list where a cruise port call would be inadequate.

I have expressed the same sentiments about skiing at Christmas vs. spring numerous times. In fairness I do not criticize people with families like socal who try to ski both school vacation periods.
Flexibility seems to be key for the Christmas ski season, Ikon helps that. Its nice to book a trip months out, but cancelation policies are the biggest thing, not to mention having a car ride to mammoth as a backup! Mammoth is looking solid for the holidays now. We might have considered Bachelor but we went 2 years in a row in 2022-2023 and I just don't love the mountain. Sun Valley seems to be getting some snow, we're going out there for Presidents weekend so hopefully it'll be filled in.
 
Back
Top