How effective are avalanche beacons?

[baldyskier]

The number of in-bounds avalanche deaths this year is scary, prompting more discussion about avalanche beacons. How effective are avalanche beacons? Would they have made the difference for many of the avalanche victims of the past few years, or do they give a false sense of security? It seems like being buried under several feet of snow and tumbled down a steep slope may relegate avalanche beacons to the status of Yugo seat belts- nice to wear, but only for easier recovery of the body if there is a serious accident.

I'm no expert on avalanches or avalanche protection, but I do want to learn more. I love skiing powder, but I don't love it to death. Any feedback would be appreciated.

-Baldyskier

 

[Tony Crocker]

The beacon may prevent many suffocation deaths, but a substantial proportion (~half?) of avy deaths are due to trauma from being swept over cliffs, into trees etc. Those who know backcountry (that's not me) mostly agree that education and wise decision making (avoiding mistakes) are way more important than the gear you're carrying (correcting mistakes).

Topic moved. icelantic and others will remind us that there is plenty of avalanche potential in some eastern backcountry.

 

[Patrick]

The beacon may prevent many suffocation deaths, but a substantial proportion (~half?) of avy deaths are due to trauma from being swept over cliffs, into trees etc. Those who know backcountry (that's not me) mostly agree that education and wise decision making (avoiding mistakes) are way more important than the gear you're carrying (correcting mistakes).

Topic moved. icelantic and others will remind us that there is plenty of avalanche potential in some eastern backcountry.

We got to see Quebec Stat for Avy deaths in the province at our Avy course in the Chic Chocs last January. Skiers incidences in Quebec (and the rest of the East are rare, but it can happen. I know we triggered a small slab avalanche as we were digging snowpit near the top of Hog Back.

The next day, we decided against going higher on le Mur des Patrouilleurs on Mont Albert after re-testing snow 1/3 of the way up.

 

[icelanticskier]

ever since i first moved to alta in 95', i've always worn a beacon for lift served out west when avi conditions are anything above low, meaning moderate and above, in the surrounding backcountry or a resorts slackcountry. for out east, i always wear one in the presidentials in winter until we are in a total spring snowpack, usually by mid-late april. i've always found that's it's just common sense that when travelling in avi terrain, even inbounds, that it's a good idea to at least increase your chances of being found more quickly with a beacon search, maybe alive,then being jabbed by a probe and probably dead. anyone who skis out west in alpine terrain on deep days or where avi conditions would be worth mentioning, are silly to not be wearing one as it's potentially cheap insurance. you don't have to know much about avalanches or have yer avi 1 to wear one. with this years many inbounds deaths, hopefully people are getting clued in.
rog

 

[Admin]

I'm sure that others will jump in, but...

1. I ski with a beacon even in-bounds if conditions are questionable. Why not? What does a set of AAAs cost?
2. If you need the beacon, you've already screwed up, because
3. The best avalanche gear is your head. The best avalanche safety practice is avalanche avoidance.
4. All the equipment in the world won't make you safe. You need to know how to read the snow and practice safe travel protocols in avalanche terrain, which is where avalanche courses come into play.
5. With all of the above understood, if you do screw up and you do get buried, having a beacon markedly increases your chances of being dug out in time...if you haven't already perished from the trauma.

I love the folks who think that having a beacon, shovel and probe makes them and their partners safe. :roll:

 

[Marc_C]

...
2. If you need the beacon, you've already screwed up, because
3. The best avalanche gear is your head. The best avalanche safety practice is avalanche avoidance.
4. All the equipment in the world won't make you safe. You need to know how to read the snow and practice safe travel protocols in avalanche terrain, which is where avalanche courses come into play....
I love the folks who think that having a beacon, shovel and probe makes them and their partners safe. :roll:

Just to reemphasize these points, Drew Hardesty in today's UAC advisory wrote (emphasis mine):

It would be negligent to only discuss snow stability in the advisory. For me, it's the whole ball of wax: terrain, weather, stability, route-finding, safe travel. It's all there. Most importantly it's the decisions we make and what risks we will assume. I'd like to point out a few misconceptions:

That "they" were experienced. They may have skiied or snowmobiled for a few years, or ridden the slope before, but that doesn't translate to an understanding of the dynamic processes of snow and avalanche formation. You can't get a job as a sommelier after a couple glasses of wine.

That "they" were prepared. Saying you're prepared with your beacon, probe, and shovel in these conditions is like saying you're prepared with a life jacket as you're going over Niagara Falls.

Stay safe and Happy New Year!

 

[Sharon]

I love the folks who think that having a beacon, shovel and probe makes them and their partners safe. :roll:

Jumping in...

the gear won't make you safe, but it will improve your level of safety by giving you and your party the ability to find each other in case of a tragedy. It could make the differnce of life and death if someone got buried without any other trauma. Hence, improved safety from death.

 

[Patrick]

2. If you need the beacon, you've already screwed up, because

That what you learn in Avy courses. Having a beacon gives you A chance for survival, however education (read the snow, rescue techniques for yourself and the other members in your party) is the best ways to put the odds on your side.

 

[baldyskier]

Thanks for all the replies. The more I read (here and elsewhere on the web), the more I'm seeing that avalanche avoidance is much more important than how skillfully you and your partners can use beacons. Specifically, note all the experience and avalanche beacons mentioned in this article about recent avalanche deaths:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 6304.story
One victim's position was found in 6 min. and he was uncovered in 4 more min., but it was still too late.

The most sobering thing I read was written 10 years ago, noting that avalanche training tends to INCREASE one's risk of being caught in an avalanche:
http://angeles.sierraclub.org/skimt/text/avyrisk.htm
A quote from that article: "We have known for many years that the more avalanche courses a person has taken, the more likely they are to be caught in and possibly killed by an avalanche. In the early 1980's, Ray Smutek wrote a groundbreaking article called "Experience and the Perception of Avalanche Hazard" in which he addressed the problem of why experienced leaders seem to be more likely to get caught in avalanches. His contention was that, due to subtle subconscious conditioning over time of avalanches not happening (an educational process called negative event feedback), experienced leaders became less able to perceive terrain hazards over time. There was a tendency for them to gradually let down their guard until they were unfortunately caught by "The big one." Therefore, he proposed that avalanche courses be altered to include better training on the perception of terrain hazards. His article was important, not only because it pointed out a disturbing problem with experienced leaders getting caught in avalanches but also because it acknowledged that there was a serious problem with "traditional" avalanche training. "

The author explained that most courses emphasize operation of beacons too much, and fail to convey just how difficult recovery of a victim in time out in the real world can be, due to bad weather, glare ice left by the avalanche, panic, and rock-hard compaction of the snow.

I believe this article still speaks a lot of truth, even though it was written 10 years ago.

-baldyskier

 

[Admin]

The most sobering thing I read was written 10 years ago, noting that avalanche training tends to INCREASE one's risk of being caught in an avalanche:
http://angeles.sierraclub.org/skimt/text/avyrisk.htm

I'd have to see more empirical evidence with extraneous factors removed before I'll buy into that theory. An alternative theory might be that those with avalanche training are more likely to be in the backcountry where avalanches occur, thus a higher statistical incidence of being caught in avalanches. Without the proper data points we might never know which is true and which is a red herring.

 

[rfarren]

An alternative theory might be that those with avalanche training are more likely to be in the backcountry where avalanches occur, thus a higher statistical incidence of being caught in avalanches. Without the proper data points we might never know which is true and which is a red herring.

Bingo!!!

 

[yak]

Wearing a beacon is of limited value if you're not skiing with friends who also have beacons, know how to use them, and have not also been buried. Some inbound avi's may go unnoticed for some time, and a lone skier buried with a beacon can easily become a dead skier.

 

[Admin]

Wearing a beacon is of limited value if you're not skiing with friends who also have beacons, know how to use them, and have not also been buried. Some inbound avi's may go unnoticed for some time, and a lone skier buried with a beacon can easily become a dead skier.

While there's some truth to that, around here there are a many folks skiing inbounds with them on a regular basis, yours truly included. Witness the hundreds of volunteers with avi gear who materialized from the general population at Snowbird to man the probe lines when North Baldy slid Dec. 14. Had the victim been wearing a beacon it would not have likely taken 58 minutes to dig her out.

 

[yak]

Wearing a beacon is of limited value if you're not skiing with friends who also have beacons, know how to use them, and have not also been buried. Some inbound avi's may go unnoticed for some time, and a lone skier buried with a beacon can easily become a dead skier.

While there's some truth to that, around here there are a many folks skiing inbounds with them on a regular basis, yours truly included. Witness the hundreds of volunteers with avi gear who materialized from the general population at Snowbird to man the probe lines when North Baldy slid Dec. 14. Had the victim been wearing a beacon it would not have likely taken 58 minutes to dig her out.

Agree, it is certainly going to give you better odds if the slide was witnessed and is relatively accessible. But if it only took 20 minutes to dig her out rather than 58, I still don't like those odds...

 

[BigSpencer]

An alternative theory might be that those with avalanche training are more likely to be in the backcountry where avalanches occur, thus a higher statistical incidence of being caught in avalanches. Without the proper data points we might never know which is true and which is a red herring.

Bingo!!!

Bingo!!!+