Ikon pass to rival Vail's Epic pass...

EMSC

Active member
No pricing or blackout dates, etc... as yet but here is the list of ski areas involved.

Ikon Pass by Location
California: Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows, Mammoth Mountain, June Mountain, Big Bear Mountain Resort
Colorado: Aspen Snowmass, Steamboat, Winter Park Resort, Copper Mountain, Eldora Mountain Resort
Maine: Sugarloaf, Sunday River
Montana: Big Sky Resort
New Hampshire: Loon Mountain Resort
Utah: Deer Valley Resort, Alta Ski Area, Snowbird
Vermont: Stratton, Killington Resort
West Virginia: Snowshoe
Wyoming: Jackson Hole Mountain Resort
Ontario, Canada: Blue Mountain
Quebec, Canada: Tremblant
British Columbia: CMH Heli-Skiing & Summer Adventures - Access to special benefits to be announced soon

https://www.alterramtnco.com/news/2018/01/25/introducing-the-ikon-pass
 

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
I don't see a price but it's hard to imagine we won't be signing up. Nice to see the key independents from Mountain Collective, which I presume will no longer exist in its 2013-2018 form.

One nitpick: They include POWDR's Colorado areas and Killington but not Mt. Bachelor. No Crystal or Brighton from Boyne either.

There is also some fine print:
pass privileges that range from full unlimited access to a set number of days that vary by destination.
 

baldyskier

Member
Tony Crocker":1i4ayd93 said:
I don't see a price but it's hard to imagine we won't be signing up. Nice to see the key independents from Mountain Collective, which I presume will no longer exist in its 2013-2018 form.

One nitpick: They include POWDR's Colorado areas and Killington but not Mt. Bachelor. No Crystal or Brighton from Boyne either.

Thee is also some fine print:
pass privileges that range from full unlimited access to a set number of days that vary by destination.

From an interview at OnTheSnow.com: "The Mountain Collective will continue on." No mention of details. Link to article:

https://www.onthesnow.com/news/a/630942/alterra-announces-new-23-resort-ikon-pass
 

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
The Mountain Collective will still be attractive to many people even without Aspen/Squaw/Mammoth. I guess Alta, Snowbird and Jackson have enough clout to be in two programs. But no surprise MaxPass and RMSP are dead.
 

tseeb

Active member
Today's news is that 4 and 7-day and unlimited Epic passes will be valid at Telluride next season and that MCP will not. See https://www.epicpass.com/info/telluride-faqs.aspx which includes: "Mountain Collective pass holders will continue to have access to Telluride during the remainder of the 2017-2018 ski season. Beginning with the 2018-2019 ski season, however, Telluride will no longer be a part of the Mountain Collective Pass. Epic Pass, Epic 7-Day Pass and Epic 4-Day Pass give you limited days at Telluride, depending on the pass."

Not that I was planning to go to Telluride, especially with the low snow they've received so far this year, but wondering what will be left in Mountain Collective next year. If Aspen (who originated the MCP and where I can stay with a friend who lives nearby) and Mammoth and Squaw/Alpine (both easy road trips for me) drop out, it won't be nearly as attractive to me.
 

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
Depending upon provisions, it’s hard to see that many Mountain Collectives will be sold going forward in California. But for destination skiers from other regions it’s still a fairly long list of high caliber resorts. That assumes AltaBird and Jackson are in both programs, which we don’t know for sure yet. It will also be interesting to see the comparative provisions for those areas if they are on both programs.
 

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
The Ikon Pass far exceeded my expectations.
1) Price was held to $899 to be similar to full Epic.
2) I thought you would need to choose a region for unlimited skiing, so I thought we might get just Squaw/Alpine in addition to Mammoth/Big Bear.
3) I expected a Max Pass type structure for the non Alterra areas, but 7 days was more than Max Pass’ 5.

Obviously this is a big win for us covering Mammoth for the season and all of Iron Blosam week.

My guess is that RMSP people like ESMC are quite happy too.

Key nuances:
1) Aspen and Deer Valley protect their high price season passes by only allowing 7 days even on the full Ikon Pass.
2) Mammoth, Steamboat and Stratton partially protect season passes by allowing unlimited skiing only on the full Ikon and allowing 5 days on the $599 version. There will be some SoCal skiers content with the 5 days at Mammoth who more often daytrip to Big Bear which is still unlimited.
3) The $599 version gets 5 days rather than 7 at the non Alterra resorts.
4) The $599 version is blacked out Dec. 26-31 and Sat/Sun of MLK and President’s weekends. That's a strong incentive for families to avoid the biggest crunch of the holidays and go the week before or after.
 

Sbooker

Member
It will be interesting to see what happens to the Mountain Collective Pass. I can't see any advantage for resorts on the Ikon Pass to be included in Mountain Collective? Maybe just to attract the casual skiers dollars?
If the Alterra resorts pull out the Mountain Collective is effectively finished I would think.
 

EMSC

Active member
Tony Crocker":kn6lfi8n said:
My guess is that RMSP people like ESMC are quite happy too.

Actually a very mixed reaction from RSMP+ holders.

Some view it as a great deal/plan to hit one or two long weekends at some of the many new options.

A decent chunk of others are more 'homebodies' similar to Admin and view it as a bad deal. It's $60/adult more expensive and instead of kids under 12 ski free with a parent pass purchase like the last two years, you now have to pay $150/kid. If you are going to just hit WP, Copper or Eldora every weekend then it is a fair bit more expensive for families.

Of course that is viewed from the Ikon "base" pass perspective.
 

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
Sbooker":38exnr6k said:
It will be interesting to see what happens to the Mountain Collective Pass. I can't see any advantage for resorts on the Ikon Pass to be included in Mountain Collective? Maybe just to attract the casual skiers dollars?
If the Alterra resorts pull out the Mountain Collective is effectively finished I would think.
I think it's safe to say that non-Alterra resorts like Jackson, Revelstoke, Banff and Alta/Snowbird will remain on Mountain Collective. I expect Aspen/Snowmass, which originated MCP and does not have an unlimited Ikon option, will also remain on MCP. That leaves just Squaw/Alpine and Mammoth/Big Bear as potential MCP dropouts, plus Telluride which has moved to affiliate with the Epic Pass.

The MCP is $500 cheaper than a full Ikon pass. That means it takes 8-9 half price days on MCP that would be free on Ikon before the Ikon becomes a better deal. The base Ikon is only $200 more than MCP, meaning it's a better deal if you have 4 half price days that would be free with Ikon. So base Ikon is a very strong competitor for those who don't care about the blackout dates.

There are possibly scenarios where number of days at one resort exceeds the 5 or 7 Ikon days, making unlimited half price on MCP more attractive. But in this day and age once the number of days at a single resort gets much into double digits, a season pass for that resort becomes attractive. So I think there's now a narrow window for the half price MCP days being a positive driving factor.
 

Marc_C

Active member
Tony Crocker":2ocb7qfn said:
Key nuances:
1) Aspen and Deer Valley protect their high price season passes by only allowing 7 days even on the full Ikon Pass.
Alta, too. This was posted on their blog the other day:

The Ikon Pass and Alta. A Message From Our GM, Mike Maughan.

Share | February 25th, 2018 | By Connie Marshall

When we were presented with the opportunity to become a partner in the Ikon Pass, we intentionally crafted our involvement to preserve the quality of the ski experience at Alta. We recognized that if the current ski areas in the Ikon Pass program in Utah (Alta, Snowbird & Deer Valley) were included on an unlimited basis, we would have more days when the demand would be greater than the available terrain, which would derogate the Alta experience. Consequently, we worked with Snowbird to craft our involvement in the Ikon product to preserve the quality of the ski experience at Alta by limiting visitation by Ikon pass holders to 7 or 5 days in Little Cottonwood Canyon.

With over half of our skier visits currently coming from out of state, we determined that involvement as a partner in the Ikon Pass was important for us to generate sufficient revenues to remain competitive and sustainable in the ski industry.

The Ikon Pass is not intended to be a replacement for Alta season pass products. Alta’s 2018-2019 season pass products will remain very similar to what we offered this season and will provide Alta season pass holders with unlimited skiing on the “Greatest Snow on Earth”, the Wasatch Benefit and the 50% discount on lift tickets at Mountain Collective destinations.

We are pleased to be included in a pass that provides access to the most iconic mountains in North America. We will monitor the impact of our involvement in the Ikon Pass program and make changes if we see significant negative impact on the Alta ski experience.

Thank you for being Alta supporters.
 

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
In general, unlimited skiing on the Ikon Pass is only at the resorts directly owned by Alterra. The vast majority of the independently owned resorts like Alta, Snowbird, Jackson, etc. are on the 5 and 7 day plans. Aspen's relationship with Alterra is clearly more coordinated but it too remains independently owned and on the 5 and 7 day plans.

Exceptions:
1) Deer Valley is Alterra owned but not unlimited. It wants to maintain its expensive season pass and also control skier, oops I mean restaurant, density.
2) Copper and Eldora are owned by Powdr Corp but ARE unlimited on the Ikon Pass. This arrangement is to compete with Vail for Front Rangers under terms at comparable to the now defunct RMSP.
 

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
Mountain Collective for 2018-19 has just been announced: https://mountaincollective.com/?utm_sou ... S18strike1

Mammoth and Squaw/Alpine are still in it, so Telluride is the only dropout and Big Sky has been added.

MCP still appears to me to be sandwiched between the base Ikon Pass on the low end and season passes for a home area skied double digit days on the high end.

However, the MCP becomes more attractive if you have kids as a $1 add-on. Ikon Child's Pass is $149 for the base pass and $199 for the unrestricted pass.
 

ShiftyRider

Member
They changed the Ikon Base Pass -- now ya get unlimited Mammoth ski daze except Christmas, MLK, and Prez holiday periods for the $599, thanks to people like me who complained about how originally it was gonna cost ~$200 more than 17/18 for the only Mammoth season pass equivalent.
 

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
Interesting. The base Mammoth/Big Bear Pass was $699 in 2017-18. I had assumed they still wanted to sell that and not let the $599 Ikon undercut it, as Mammoth has a significant customer base that skis nowhere else and won't care about the other Ikon areas. Steamboat and Stratton similarly allow unlimited skiing only on the full Ikon Pass, but I don't know what their season pass history is. I was under the impression that Steamboat's was quite expensive.
 

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
Good analysis by The Sheet. Like the author I have always viewed SoCal as somewhat of a captive market for Mammoth, so most would have paid the $899 if push came to shove. At any rate I'm pleased that Alterra listed to the pushback from people like ShiftyRider. I suspect Rusty (new CEO of Alterra) understands Mammoth's market as well as anyone.

I am also pleased that Mammoth is now pushing for air service via Bishop, which will take bigger planes and not be subject to the chronic crosswinds and unsuccessful flights at Mammoth airport. Some of us have been saying for a decade or more that the air service should be to Bishop. Evidently the Bishop locals were against it during the Intrawest/Mammoth development years 15-20 years ago but now they are for it.
 

Marc_C

Active member
Tony Crocker":1kmv2i70 said:
I am also pleased that Mammoth is now pushing for air service via Bishop,... <snip> Evidently the Bishop locals were against it during the Intrawest/Mammoth development years 15-20 years ago but now they are for it.
What are the local economic conditions in Bishop now vs then?
 
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