Is Pomerelle a Powder Paradise?

N

nathanvg

New member
I've never been but Pomerelle claims 500" of snow a year. Anyone know if that's accurate? @Tony Crocker maybe you know?

I enjoy going to smaller ski areas and a big powder day at a low crowd ski area could be really cool. Looking at topographical maps, Pomerelle is low pitch and a little under 1k vertical. So nothing too impressive but might still be worth a stop sometime.
 
nathanvg said:
Pomerelle claims 500" of snow a year
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Here's the "brochure quote" that he refers to, from this page. Can anyone provide a reality check and (if true) explain why it's never included in the upper echelon of U.S. ski areas for yearly snow?

1727364372114.png
 
Trip report from 2010.

Is Pomerelle a powder paradise?
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I'd say no, because overall the topography is too flat. Pomerelle has a very successful niche as a learning area with cheap lift tickets.

nathanvg said:
I've never been but Pomerelle claims 500" of snow a year. Anyone know if that's accurate? @Tony Crocker maybe you know?
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I do not know. In general I'm inclined to reject any brochure quote of 400 inches or more without hard data or very persuasive climatology rationale. That's why I rejected Powder Mt.'s claim of 500 well before I had any data from there. It's no higher than Snowbasin and just slightly farther north. I have not collected data direct from Powder Mt. but have collected in-season website data Dec.-Mar. for 16 seasons. That data shows PowMow 108% of Snowbasin, which means 350 inches season snowfall vs. 325.

For Zrankings I had to make estimates for areas without directly obtained data, and I also ascribed high, medium or low confidence in the accuracy of the estimates. For Pomerelle I estimated 325 inches with low confidence. Maybe that's harsh, but there's no other ski area in the southern 2/3 of Idaho even close to 300. Farther north Brundage brags of "best snow in Idaho" and it has 36 years of data averaging 296 inches. Lost Trail has a reputation for abundant powder and its brochure quote is 300 inches, which I accepted with medium confidence. Lookout Pass is the most well known snowy microclimate in Idaho. I have 12 years of Dec.-Mar. data, which by indexing projects to 417 inches per season.

Pomerelle is difficult because it's in a completely different sector of mountains from anywhere else. Nonetheless the ski area elevation range is 7,700-8,700 and the highest peak in the region is 9,200. I do not see a climatology rationale for more snow than Snowbasin/Powder Mt.

This inquiry prompted me to look for SNOTELs. It turns out there is one, Howell Canyon #435, in Pomerelle at 7,980 feet. The 21-year average Apr. 1 base depth is 69.2 inches and the 43-year average Apr. 1 SWE is 26.2 inches. The Saddle Mt. SNOTEL #727 in Lost Trail at 7,940 feet has a 23-year average Apr. 1 base depth of 72.6 inches and a 55-year average Apr. 1 SWE of 24.9 inches. The SNOTEL #814 in Park City's Thaynes Canyon at 9,230 feet has a 27-year average Apr. 1 base depth of 66.9 inches and a 36-year average Apr. 1 SWE of 23.5 inches. Nearby Park City Summit house has a 46-year snowfall average of 294 inches. I'm now more comfortable with that 325 inch snowfall estimate for Pomerelle.

Yes there are a few SNOTELs in non-coastal 450+ inch snowfall microclimates (max base/SWE):
Snowbird 9,177 ft: 102.0/42.6
Targhee 9,260 ft: 112.9/46.3
Tower (Buffalo Pass, CO) 10,500 ft: 115.9/47.8
Flattop Mt. (Glacier NP, MT) 6,300 ft: 121.1/46.2
 
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Tony Crocker said:
Trip report from 2010.


I'd say no, because overall the topography is too flat. Pomerelle has a very successful niche as a learning area with cheap lift tickets.


I do not know. In general I'm inclined to reject any brochure quote of 400 inches or more without hard data or very persuasive climatology rationale. That's why I rejected Powder Mt.'s claim of 500 well before I had any data from there. It's no higher than Snowbasin and just slightly father north. I have not collected data direct from Powder Mt. but have collected in-season website data Dec.-Mar. for 16 seasons. That data shows PowMow 108% of Snowbasin, which means 350 inches season snowfall vs. 325.

For Zrankings I had to make estimates for areas without directly obtained data, and I also ascribed high, medium or low confidence in the accuracy of the estimates. For Pomerelle I estimated 325 inches with low confidence. Maybe that's harsh, but there's no other ski area in the southern 2/3 of Idaho even close to 300. Farther north Brundage brags of "best snow in Idaho" and it has 36 years of data averaging 296 inches. Lost Trail has a reputation for abundant powder and its brochure quote is 300 inches, which I accepted with medium confidence. Lookout Pass is the most well known snowy microclimate in Idaho. I have 12 years of Dec.-Mar. data, which by indexing projects to 417 inches per season.

Pomerelle is difficult because it's in a completely different sector of mountains from anywhere else. Nonetheless the ski area elevation range is 7,700-8,700 and the highest peak in the region is 9,200. I do not see a climatology rationale for more snow than Snowbasin/Powder Mt.

This inquiry prompted me to look for SNOTELs. It turns out there is one, Howell Canyon #435, in Pomerelle at 7,980 feet. The 21-year average Apr. 1 base depth is 69.2 inches and the 43-year average Apr. 1 SWE is 26.2 inches. The Saddle Mt. SNOTEL #727 in Lost Trail at 7,940 feet has a 23-year average Apr. 1 base depth of 72.6 inches and a 55-year average Apr. 1 SWE of 24.9 inches. The SNOTEL #814 in Park City's Thaynes Canyon at 9,230 feet has a 27-year average Apr. 1 base depth of 66.9 inches and a 36-year average Apr. 1 SWE of 23.5 inches. Nearby Park City Summit house has a 46-year snowfall average of 294 inches. I'm now more comfortable with that 325 inch snowfall estimate for Pomerelle.

Yes there are a few SNOTELs in non-coastal 450+ inch snowfall microclimates (max base/SWE):
Snowbird 9,177 ft: 102.0/42.6
Targhee 9,260 ft: 112.9/46.3
Tower (Buffalo Pass, CO) 10,500 ft: 115.9/47.8
Flattop Mt. (Glacier NP, MT) 6,300 ft: 121.1/46.2



​

Click to expand...
Thanks Tony. That's a good idea to use snotel data. I'm more likely to ski other areas in the region but may make it to Pomerelle at some point.

On a related topic, Idaho has some funky areas. I'd like to try out blizzard: https://liftblog.com/platter-blizzard-mountain-id/
 
nathanvg said:
On a related topic, Idaho has some funky areas. I'd like to try out blizzard: https://liftblog.com/platter-blizzard-mountain-id/
Click to expand...
Blizzard sounds like fun. But sounds like have to be very lucky to catch a good Saturday.

February 2022
www.boisestatepublicradio.org

A ski hill in southern Idaho is run entirely by volunteers

Blizzard Mountain is a community ski hill about 20 miles west of Arco. There’s one wide, groomed run. It’s on leased private land and it’s completely run by volunteers and the local Lions Club.
www.boisestatepublicradio.org www.boisestatepublicradio.org
 
Blizzard Mt. is so obscure that even Lonnie has not skied it! It's also a new addition to the Google Earth .kml file.

The liftblog pics reminded me of Afriski. Google Earth measurement shows 800 vertical vs. 700 for Afriski.
 
Tony Crocker said:
Trip report from 2010.


I'd say no, because overall the topography is too flat. Pomerelle has a very successful niche as a learning area with cheap lift tickets.


I do not know. In general I'm inclined to reject any brochure quote of 400 inches or more without hard data or very persuasive climatology rationale. That's why I rejected Powder Mt.'s claim of 500 well before I had any data from there. It's no higher than Snowbasin and just slightly farther north. I have not collected data direct from Powder Mt. but have collected in-season website data Dec.-Mar. for 16 seasons. That data shows PowMow 108% of Snowbasin, which means 350 inches season snowfall vs. 325.

For Zrankings I had to make estimates for areas without directly obtained data, and I also ascribed high, medium or low confidence in the accuracy of the estimates. For Pomerelle I estimated 325 inches with low confidence. Maybe that's harsh, but there's no other ski area in the southern 2/3 of Idaho even close to 300. Farther north Brundage brags of "best snow in Idaho" and it has 36 years of data averaging 296 inches. Lost Trail has a reputation for abundant powder and its brochure quote is 300 inches, which I accepted with medium confidence. Lookout Pass is the most well known snowy microclimate in Idaho. I have 12 years of Dec.-Mar. data, which by indexing projects to 417 inches per season.

Pomerelle is difficult because it's in a completely different sector of mountains from anywhere else. Nonetheless the ski area elevation range is 7,700-8,700 and the highest peak in the region is 9,200. I do not see a climatology rationale for more snow than Snowbasin/Powder Mt.

This inquiry prompted me to look for SNOTELs. It turns out there is one, Howell Canyon #435, in Pomerelle at 7,980 feet. The 21-year average Apr. 1 base depth is 69.2 inches and the 43-year average Apr. 1 SWE is 26.2 inches. The Saddle Mt. SNOTEL #727 in Lost Trail at 7,940 feet has a 23-year average Apr. 1 base depth of 72.6 inches and a 55-year average Apr. 1 SWE of 24.9 inches. The SNOTEL #814 in Park City's Thaynes Canyon at 9,230 feet has a 27-year average Apr. 1 base depth of 66.9 inches and a 36-year average Apr. 1 SWE of 23.5 inches. Nearby Park City Summit house has a 46-year snowfall average of 294 inches. I'm now more comfortable with that 325 inch snowfall estimate for Pomerelle.

Yes there are a few SNOTELs in non-coastal 450+ inch snowfall microclimates (max base/SWE):
Snowbird 9,177 ft: 102.0/42.6
Targhee 9,260 ft: 112.9/46.3
Tower (Buffalo Pass, CO) 10,500 ft: 115.9/47.8
Flattop Mt. (Glacier NP, MT) 6,300 ft: 121.1/46.2
Click to expand...
I get that Grand Targhee is not technically Idaho but what causes it to get 500 inches each year when the areas to west of it get between 150 and 250 inches less? It’s not in a funnel of sorts like LCC and BCC. It doesn’t benefit from any ‘lake effect’ either.
 
Orographic uplift of the Tetons. They are over 10,000 feet, the only mountains due west are the 7,000 foot Cascades in Oregon and the Tetons are exactly perpendicular to the most common west-to east flow of winter storms. Targhee is on the windward side and Jackson on the leeward side. Snowfall is abundant in context on the upper half of Jackson, and Targhee's terrain corresponds only to that upper half.
 
Tony Crocker said:
Orographic uplift of the Tetons. They are over 10,000 feet, the only mountains due west are the 7,000 foot Cascades in Oregon and the Tetons are exactly perpendicular to the most common west-to east flow of winter storms. Targhee is on the windward side and Jackson on the leeward side. Snowfall is abundant in context on the upper half of Jackson, and Targhee's terrain corresponds only to that upper half.
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The the top of Jackson (say Revelation bowl) gets 500 inches too?
 
Revelation is at Telluride. Rendezvous is at Jackson.

For the past 26 seasons,
Jackson has averaged Nov-Apr.:
433 inches in Rendezvous Bowl 9,580
456 at the Raymer plot 9,360 just above the top of the Bridger gondola
365 at mid-mountain 8,180
142 at the base 6,510

I use mid-mountain on my website and its data goes back to 1967-68.

The Raymer plot was new starting in 1997-98 when the Bridger gondola was built. Since then, that's what JHMR uses in press releases and "brochure quotes" for snowfall. However the in-season website snow report also shows the mid-mountain so I can track that vs. long term average.

I'd guess the Rendezvous site is less sheltered than Raymer.

Targhee averages 465 inches at 8,800 feet since 1976-77.

Ski areas on the leeward side of mountain ridges tend to have snowfall decline rapidly with elevation as you're also moving farther away from the crest. Other notable examples are Park City and Palisades Tahoe.
 
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