Need advice: Dad + 3 boys in SLC 1st time Jan 12-16

[OHski]

Background:
It?s our first time west. My boys and I arrive SLC Wednesday evening , the 11th, for five days of skiing, (12th through Monday the 16th). With me will be a 16 yr old boarder and 16 & 13 yr old skiers. Last year the 16 year olds enjoyed the blues at Killington and the occasional black. The 13 year old liked the greens and the occasional easy blue. It was his first year on skis. My abilities (47 yr old skier) are on par with the older boys. None have skied powder, but want to try if the weather cooperates. The boarder is not interested in terrain parks. We?re staying in SLC, near the BCC/LCC entrances, so can pick and choose where to go each day.

I?ve come up with a short list of resorts, but have questions and would be grateful for any advice.

Our list is based on availability of blue and green cruisers (everyone), plus more challenging stuff (all but 13 yr old). The list includes Brighton, Solitude, Snowbasin, and Park City. I eliminated other places because of the boarder in our midst ( Deer Valley, Alta), limited green/blue terrain (Snowbird), or distance (Brian Head, etc).

A plan is to ski the above four places once each, and repeat one on Monday (Martin Luther King Day), what do you think of the following plan? I?m trying to progress from easier to harder terrain and avoid weekend crowds.

Brighton on Thursday. I hear it has more basic terrain available and might be best for a first day. Park City on Friday ? plenty of greens and blues and longer runs than day 1. Solitude and Snowbasin on the weekend since I read that these two are less likely to have long lines on the weekend. We?ll go back to the one we had the most fun at to wrap up the trip on Monday (holiday crowds a factor?).

How could weather affect our choices? Snowbasin has a lower base elevation, so I?m wondering if it?s worth the extra drive given the recent warm weather (hoping that will change). Just looking at the trail maps, it looks fantastic for what we want. Plenty of blue groomers for the 13 yr old, and challenges for the older folks.

How do the locals check up on conditions? TV? Internet? Just call?

If you?re picking up tickets at Canyon Sports, do you generally get them the night before, or that morning? I want to avoid waiting around, if possible.

We?d like to pack lunches each day to keep the cost down, but I don?t know if Utah resorts have lockers and a general cafeteria available like the places back east. Will this be a problem?

Any issues about parking? Maybe show up earlier at some places to avoid a long hike from the car?

Food: We?ll eat out a few times and fix dinner at the condo the rest of the time. Do you have recommendations for value-added places to dine at either at the resorts or in SLC? We?re on a budget, but spending $20-25 per person once or twice for something unique and fun is okay.

Well, that?s a lot of questions. Thanks for any sage advice on this or other anything else you'd like to share.

Duane

One last question - I?ve always used the Swix HC waxes and will have these along. Given the possibility of wet humid snow, is there any practical advantage to the LF waxes? Think from the ?fun factor?perspective and NOT as a racer trying to shave tenths. If an LF wax can help the boys have more fun in damp conditions, then I don?t mind spending a few extra bucks and waxing in the evening. I?m guessing the answer is ?No?, but then I?ve never skied a fluoro wax.

 

[Admin]

Background:
It?s our first time west.

\/

We?re staying in SLC, near the BCC/LCC entrances, so can pick and choose where to go each day.

Good location.

Our list is based on availability of blue and green cruisers (everyone), plus more challenging stuff (all but 13 yr old). The list includes Brighton, Solitude, Snowbasin, and Park City. I eliminated other places because of the boarder in our midst ( Deer Valley, Alta), limited green/blue terrain (Snowbird), or distance (Brian Head, etc).

Add to those choices The Canyons and Powder Mountain.

A plan is to ski the above four places once each, and repeat one on Monday (Martin Luther King Day), what do you think of the following plan? I?m trying to progress from easier to harder terrain and avoid weekend crowds.

Brighton on Thursday. I hear it has more basic terrain available and might be best for a first day.

Save for the terrain on Mt. Millicent, you'll find Brighton's terrain less Western and more akin to the eastern trail skiing to which you sound to be more accustomed. You'll find lots of groomed cruisers towards the middle of the mountain, with some steeper stuff on either end (Great Western and Millicent), although Millicent offers some blue cruising as well. Because of what is to me a rather annoying flat area halfway down the entire center area of the mountain, Brighton will "ski smaller" than the other areas.

Park City on Friday ? plenty of greens and blues and longer runs than day 1.

Because of the recent weather we've been having (high rain/snow lines, up to 8,500 feet at times), and because the Park City resorts are much lower in elevation than those in the Cottonwood Canyons, you'll want to stay high at Park City. That means Thaynes, Jupiter, McConkey's, Pioneer, and Bonanza lifts, plus maybe Motherlode. Stuff on the front of the mountain below the top of King Con (i.e., Payday, etc.) was rock hard last Thursday. We're talking tooth-rattling rock hard, while the upper mountain was in superb shape. I'm not quite sure where the snow line was yesterday/last night.

Solitude and Snowbasin on the weekend since I read that these two are less likely to have long lines on the weekend. We?ll go back to the one we had the most fun at to wrap up the trip on Monday (holiday crowds a factor?).

I doubt that you'd have crowd issues at either of those choices -- they, along with Powder Mountain, are the least crowded. Powder Mountain's facilities are spartan, but if like me you prefer quality skiing over lavish facilities, it's one to consider.

How could weather affect our choices? Snowbasin has a lower base elevation, so I?m wondering if it?s worth the extra drive given the recent warm weather (hoping that will change). Just looking at the trail maps, it looks fantastic for what we want. Plenty of blue groomers for the 13 yr old, and challenges for the older folks.

Snowbasin's base elevation isn't that much lower than the Park City areas. A friend who was there on Saturday said that the mountain was skiing well, and the only "snain" he experienced that day was in a small pocket near the Grizzly base. I have no information regarding what's happened there since then.

How do the locals check up on conditions? TV? Internet? Just call?

Hoo-boy! Take a cup of Internet data, stir in a pinch of local knowledge regarding prevailing winds and weather patterns, add a teaspoon of elevation, and whisk briskly. :wink:

Besides the obvious ski area website data, there is also available for your consideration:

• Local Mesonet station data: http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/slc/current/meso.slv.php
• Salt Lake Valley VIPIR: http://web.ksl.com/TV/weather/viper_local.php?map=c
• Wasatch VIPIR: http://web.ksl.com/TV/weather/viper_local.php?map=e
• Ogden-area VIPIR: http://web.ksl.com/TV/weather/viper_local.php?map=b
• Mountain Weather from NWS: http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/slc/snow/mtn.php
• Cottonwood Canyons forecast from NWS: http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/slc/snow/mtnwx/ ... recast.php
• Utah Avalanche Center report: http://www.avalanche.org/~uac/newadvisory/advisory.php
• NWS SLC discussion: http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/slc/forecast/te ... hp?pil=afd
• Experimental RIDGE radar: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ridge/mtx.shtml
• Digital point forecasts: http://ifps.wrh.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/dwf?siteID=SLC

etc., etc., etc.

If you?re picking up tickets at Canyon Sports, do you generally get them the night before, or that morning? I want to avoid waiting around, if possible.

It doesn't matter. If you're worried about time, just get them the night before.

We?d like to pack lunches each day to keep the cost down, but I don?t know if Utah resorts have lockers and a general cafeteria available like the places back east. Will this be a problem?

All of the places you're considering have day skier facilities. Snowbasin's are extremely lavish, and a bag lunch would stick out like a sore thumb (I don't believe there's any kind of brown bag room downstairs, either). I saw Solitude's new day lodge from the outside only last week. Brighton's day lockers are on the first floor of the first building you enter off the parking lot, and their food services is one building higher on the hill. Park City has a cavernous "food court"-style cafeteria in the Legacy Lodge. Powder Mountain has a retro "base" lodge atop the hill where I'm sure you'd be surrounded by other brown baggers. Dunno about The Canyons.

Any issues about parking? Maybe show up earlier at some places to avoid a long hike from the car?

No problems at Brighton. Solitude is tight for parking only if you insist upon parking at the upper base lodge near the village, where the lot is tiny. There's a lot more room at Moonbeam. Snowbasin has ample parking and a shuttle tram from the more distant lots. No problem at Pow Mow. Park City charges $5 for an underground lot, but no charge for the surface lots surrounding the resort core. At The Canyons, you'll be forced to park down by the main road and ride a shuttle gondola to and from the slopes.

Food: We?ll eat out a few times and fix dinner at the condo the rest of the time. Do you have recommendations for value-added places to dine at either at the resorts or in SLC? We?re on a budget, but spending $20-25 per person once or twice for something unique and fun is okay.

• Squatters brew pub in SLC.
• Red Rock brew pub in Kimball Jct. (or SLC) (are we detecting a trend here? )
• Most PC downtown restaurants are pricey -- you'll get more value in SLC.
• Takashi on Market St in downtown SLC has some of the best sushi on the planet, if you're into it, but depending upon your ordering habits it may be tough to get out sub-$25 pp
• Ruth's Diner in Emigration Canyon (not really a diner anymore, but it serves good, reasonably priced comfort food)
• The Red Iguana on North Temple for some of the best gourmet Mexican you'll ever have.
• Bangkok Thai on Foothills Dr, just north of the mouth of Parley's Canyon (which I-80 enters to head to PC)
• Cafe Trang (Vietnamese, two locations - one downtown, one in Cottonwood Heights)

Well, that?s a lot of questions.

And that's a lot of answers. :wink:

One last question - I?ve always used the Swix HC waxes and will have these along. Given the possibility of wet humid snow, is there any practical advantage to the LF waxes?

You're thinking waaaaay too hard. Forget about the fluoros, and come on out here and have fun!

 

[lookn4powder]

Background:
It?s our first time west. ... We?re staying in SLC, near the BCC/LCC entrances, so can pick and choose where to go each day.

I?ve come up with a short list of resorts, but have questions and would be grateful for any advice.

Great location choice for your SLC stay. For resorts you might consider adding Sundance and Powder Mountain--but only after considering conditions further. Sundance is a bit lower than others so is a better bet during good snow years. The Powder Mountain access road has 4WD restrictions posted for the winter months. I have serially ignored these but they could become an issue on good powder days. BTW, I regard the general quality of snow conditions in Utah to go in the order of Alta, Snowbird/Brighton, Powder Mt, Snowbasin, Solitude, Deer Valley, Sundance, Park City, and Canyons. The ADMIN and others may disagree, but this is based on my 20 years of playing ski-tourist in Utah. Deviations from my order may occur, of course.

Our list is based on availability of blue and green cruisers (everyone), plus more challenging stuff (all but 13 yr old). The list includes Brighton, Solitude, Snowbasin, and Park City. I eliminated other places because of the boarder in our midst ( Deer Valley, Alta), limited green/blue terrain (Snowbird), or distance (Brian Head, etc).

For one who hasn't skied Utah, you have this scoped out pretty well.

Brighton on Thursday. I hear it has more basic terrain available and might be best for a first day.

Or for any day. The best "tired legs" days are Powder Mt, Brighton, and Sundance.

Snowbasin has a lower base elevation, so I?m wondering if it?s worth the extra drive given the recent warm weather (hoping that will change). Just looking at the trail maps, it looks fantastic for what we want. Plenty of blue groomers for the 13 yr old, and challenges for the older folks.

Snowbasin is likely the best lift service in Utah and least skied. If you are looking for cruisers, its pretty good. The lower ski traffic keeps the snow in good shape. Same goes for Powder Mt--but with slower lift service.

Food: We?ll eat out a few times and fix dinner at the condo the rest of the time. Do you have recommendations for value-added places to dine at either at the resorts or in SLC? We?re on a budget, but spending $20-25 per person once or twice for something unique and fun is okay.

Add the Spaghetti Factory to your list. Cheap, copious food, good. The have 2-3 SLC locations. We have eaten at the Trolley Square (downtown near 400 S, I think) and a location about 2 miles from I-15 and 7200 S.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

[johnnash]

I?m certainly no expert on Utah, but we just returned a few days ago from our first trip there, and had a terrific time, thanks in large part to some excellent advice from Tony, Marc, and others in this forum. (The Best Snow on Earth also had something to do with it!) We stayed at the Homewood Suites in Sandy, on Fort Union, which I think must be in the same area as you?re staying. We skied Brighton (twice), Solitude (twice), Alta, Park City, and Snowbasin. Here?s some feedback you may find useful, and I?ll end with a question for the others more knowledgeable than I.

First, conditions were great everywhere, except Snowbasin, where there was the same kind of underlying layer of ice that we find all the time when we ski around Washington, DC. I will say that we didn?t get very far up the mountain, so maybe conditions were better there. Some local kids on the lift told us they had rain in December on the mountain for the first time in their lives, so I suppose this is what generated the ice.

Second, if you?re worried about crowds, go to Solitude. Even on a powder day between Christmas and New Year, we never had to wait in a lift line longer than 2 minutes, even at the base. Snowbasin also was very uncrowded, and Brighton wasn?t bad the 2 days we were there, but these were before Christmas, so probably not peak days. Lines were very long at Park, but this was the day after Christmas. (We were given good advice to go there before Christmas to avoid the crowds, but unfortunately couldn?t do that.)

On the nature of the resorts -- Solitude has a pretty small terrain park, so wasn?t popular with our advanced snowboarding son, but was the favorite of our beginning boarder daughter, who found more nice long green runs there. Brighton is definitely the boarders? resort of choice among the 4 Cottonwood Canyon resorts, and Park is a boarder?s dream. I have to admit that even though I regularly ski blacks and some double-blacks around Washington DC, I found the ungroomed runs (even the blues) at all the SLC resorts challenging. I could find enough groomed runs at any of these to keep me occupied, but I got the impression that Park and Snowbasin probably paid more attention to grooming than the others. Park each day has some ?signature? blacks that are not normally groomed, but are groomed that day.

Regarding brown-bagging, we brought our own lunches everywhere but Park and Alta, and had no problems. Solitude and Brighton (I think) ask you to eat on the outside tables, which was no problem on the days we were there. At Snowbasin, there is a pretty fancy lunch-room, with a sign on one door saying no outside food allowed, but it was lousy weather outside, so we went inside and bought lunch for the kids, while my wife and I fixed our own sandwiches, and no one objected.

We generally got to the resorts by 9:00- 9:30, and never had a problem with parking at any of the resorts. In fact we parked close enough to the lodges that we just left our food in the car until lunch ? no need for a locker.

The lines for lift tix at Canyon (and another nearby shop, called Ski and Sky, or Sea and Ski, or something like that) were pretty long in the morning ? 15- 20 minutes some days ? and once a shop was sold out of Solitude -- so by the end of the trip, we started buying the night before. Of course, then you?re taking the risk that foul weather or a sick kid may be a problem?.

Where would I go back? Really any of the places we went?provided that I could go to Park on a less busy day, and that Snowbasin had some serious snow to cover those icy spots. I have a special place in my heart for Park, because when our son developed an upset stomach after a couple of runs, they actually refunded 2/3 of all our lift tickets. I was pleasantly surprised. (And that?s how my wife and I got to go to Alta for the afternoon that same day.)

We found skiutah.com to be very helpful -- with information on conditions at each resort every day and links to each resort's own webpage.

But now, a small whine and a question for Tony or Marc or others. At our local resorts (and at Steamboat, our only other western experience), pretty much all the lifts have safety (aka, chicken) bars. Few of the lifts at the SLC resorts (none at Alta, and a minority at the other resorts, with the exception of Park) seemed to have bars. I?m a bit phobic about heights, but I could grit my teeth and bear it. But for my wife, this was a show-stopper. She tried one or two (and at Alta was a real trooper), but was basically terrified, so we ended up just skiing slopes we could access from lifts with bars. For those of us who are accustomed to resorts with a total of 15- 20 runs, even a small piece of one of these mega-resorts is sufficient, but it would be nice to be able to enjoy more of what they have to offer. This is clearly a non-issue for most folks (and I?m sure will strike you Utah skiers as pretty funny! ), but for us, it?s important. If we go back -- and I hope we do ? are there some resorts where most of the lifts have bars? I wondered especially about Park (where we only saw 2 lifts), Snowbird, and Powder Mt.

 

[Admin]

But now, a small whine and a question for Tony or Marc or others. At our local resorts (and at Steamboat, our only other western experience), pretty much all the lifts have safety (aka, chicken) bars. Few of the lifts at the SLC resorts (none at Alta, and a minority at the other resorts, with the exception of Park) seemed to have bars. ... If we go back -- and I hope we do ? are there some resorts where most of the lifts have bars? I wondered especially about Park (where we only saw 2 lifts), Snowbird, and Powder Mt.

Many western resorts lack safety bars on chairs. Try 'em with a backpack on sometime. :shock: You're right -- Alta has none, even on the new high-speed detachables. Snowbird has them. At Park City, newer lifts do and older ones don't. Most at Solitude don't. I can't remember about Pow Mow.

Glad you enjoyed your stay!!

 

[Tony Crocker]

I'm in favor of the lifts with footrests, very nice when you're getting worked at Snowbird. Mammoth has them on the high speed detachables but not on other lifts. If you want to give your wife a real thrill, put her on chair 23 at Mammoth :wink: .

On a more serious note I had some of the same discomfort when I started skiing. Now I'm used to it, but I still usually hook my arm on the seatback if the lift stops while I'm high off the ground.

 

[Patrick]

If you want to give your wife a real thrill, put her on chair 23 at Mammoth :wink: .

With a backpack on. :shock:

 

[johnnash]

Sounds like we should have spent some time at Snowbird. At least there, we wouldn't be terrified until we got off the lift and looked at the slope

Funny that you mention Mammoth. Our son the boarder is dying to go there. Do the hi-speed detachables with chicken bars cover a good part of the mountain, or just a few runs?

 

[Tony Crocker]

If you're a good skier, some of the older lifts are key: 5, 9, 12, 14, 22 and 23.

You can get at the terrain served by all of these except 22 from the upper gondola, but it would prevent you from running laps on those chairs or utilizing them to escape crowds.

It's a problem you get over eventually, and perhaps your son doesn't have it.

The high speed lifts are 1 Broadway, 2 Stump Alley, 3 Face Lift, 4 Roller Coaster, 6 Thunder Bound (terrain park), 7 Schoolyard, 10 Gold Rush, 11 Discovery, 15 Eagle, 16 Canyon, 17 (don't know the new name) plus the 2-stage gondola.

 

[lookn4powder]

... But now, a small whine ... I?m a bit phobic about heights, but I could grit my teeth and bear it. But for my wife, this was a show-stopper.... ...so we ended up just skiing slopes we could access from lifts with bars.

Sorry to hear of your distress. Some people cannot get used to a no-bars lift. I usually hook an arm over the back of the chair. It's best to just ignore the absence of bars unless you have a medical condition (epilepsy, asthma) that might cause an emergency.

About 15 years ago a buddy of mine was skiing alone and shared a chair with a grizzled senior skier. The guy hopped on, reached immediately into his waistpack, grabbed a couple of bungee cords, and hooking them to the chair, he fastened the cords across his chest and waist. He grinned at my friend and said "I've been skiing 50 days/season for 45 years, never had a problem on lifts, but I cannot get over my fear. The cords fix the problem." I have never shared a chair with anyone who used this solution, but it makes sense to me as long as they unhook at the top.

BTW, I think that Pajarito and Taos in NM have a few lifts absent of chicken bars. And you would have just loved the old KT-22 chair at Squaw. No bar and a long distance run between two towers--perhaps 90 feet above the ground. I am not acrophobic, but it got my attention in the strong crosswind!!

Cheers,
Jeff

 

[Patrick]

... But now, a small whine ... I?m a bit phobic about heights, but I could grit my teeth and bear it.

I don't remember if there was a issue regarding safety bars in Europe, however I know that they are a few Aerial trams that are pretty impressive, even for the non-vertigo crowd. :mrgreen:

Trams at Le Brévent and l'Aiguille du Midi in Chamonix, France come to mind.

 

[OHski]

Wow! I did not expect such comprehensive and helpful advice and insights. What great people. FYI - I posted the same questions over on the epicski.com forums and reponses weren't nearly as numerous or helpful. The quantity and quality of reponse here obligates me to write a trip summary at the end of the month.

Folks mentioned the Canyons and Powder Mountain were mentioned as places to consider in addition to the others I mentioned. We'd first planned to ski only areas close to our condo (in SLC) and avoid the extra half hour or so of driving to reach places like Snowbasin or Powder Mountain. Then the Olympic cache of Snowbasin overrode drive time and it made the list. The Canyons? Well, what I gleaned from the web was the Canyons has its treasures, but you need time to get to know the place. Given all the other places to pick and choose from, I wasn't sure we wanted to deal with that. Folks were also critical of the layout, and I have to admit it does look a bit different. Having said all that, the entire left side seems to be exclusively blues, and that might be just what we need. The lone boarder of the group isn't into terrain parks at all, so maybe we'll do the Canyons or Powmow instead of Brighton.

Johnnash mentioned that conditions were great everywhere, but he ran into some underlying ice at Snowbasin. I guess that's the kind of thing I'm trying to minimize. The resort sites and skiutah.com don't give those sorts of details. Rule-of-thumb I have so far is to check the forecasts (thanks Marc), avoid low elevations if rain comes, and talk to locals whenever I can scrounge one up. Anything else? I did hear somewhere that certain resorts are more shelterred when the winds kick up and will have most lifts open when others have shut down.

Thanks again!

 

[Admin]

I did hear somewhere that certain resorts are more shelterred when the winds kick up and will have most lifts open when others have shut down.

Avalanche control work is far more likely to close lifts around these parts than wind. The latter doesn't happen very often.

 

[freeride]

Marc, and especially Tony:

You guys are on it! I saw this post and was ready to "drop in" with all sorts of advice. Even feel tempted to reach back into memory lane and offer advice on Mammoth but you covered that, too! Know all about holding on tight on chair 23.

Cool to see visitors who plan ahead and try to match resorts with their particular riding desires.

Only thing I guess I'll ad, for anyone who's reading: the ice is GONE!! Recent snow covered it up well. And it was still -1 F at my door in Park City at 10:00 am today, so this latest snow should stay nice for a while.

Mike

 

[Marc_C]

Only thing I guess I'll ad, for anyone who's reading: the ice is GONE!! Recent snow covered it up well. And it was still -1 F at my door in Park City at 10:00 am today, so this latest snow should stay nice for a while.

Did you hear tonight's weather forecast? One to three feet in the mountains by Thursday morning. :lol:

 

[Admin]

Did you hear tonight's weather forecast? One to three feet in the mountains by Thursday morning. :lol:

Uh-huh, uh-huh. Let's hope that avi control takes until Saturday morning.

Yeah, I know...I'm dreamin'.

 

[OHski]

I'm taking a short break from trying to get three teenagers to pack their gear in some logical fashion. A losing battle, but all are in high spirits.

Our flight leaves Cleveland for Utah tomorrow afternoon and we arrive at 8:00. Skis are tuned. The eldest son's goggles arrived today, so he's happy. The boys and I are pumped. Canyon Sports closes at 9:00, so we'll get tickets first thing Thursday AM. Turns out Canyon is walking distance from our place on Fort Union blvd.

So - Given the forecast, any other suggestions from y'all? I know, I know? it's all great. We still haven't decided where to go first. Kids in a candy store.

 

[Marc_C]

So - Given the forecast, any other suggestions from y'all? I know, I know? it's all great. We still haven't decided where to go first. Kids in a candy store.

Solitude, seeing that you have at least one boarder in your group.
I'll be at Alta. 8)

Oh, if you're renting a vehicle and didn't rent a 4x4 and the canyon is restricted to Chains/4x4, believe the sign and take the bus. Even if it's raining in the valley and the road is merely wet at the mouth of the canyon, if it's restricted, you will need 4x4 or chains by the time you get 2500' higher.

 

[Admin]

With 1-3 feet predicted for tomorrow/tomorrow night, could any suggestion be a bad one?? You'll get a chance to try your hand at powder!