Summer Heat and Humidity

jamesdeluxe

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Some people really dislike hot weather. I’m one of them. So is my wife.
Same for the most part. I don't like the 2-3 weeks every summer of hot/humid in the northeast and despite the tired cliché ("but it's a dry heat!") that people love to repeat in the western U.S., it doesn't matter to me how dry it is once the temp gets above 95F/35C. Knowing this, a friend who lives in Tucson gave me a useful trivet:

20250321_101522.jpg
 
the 2-3 weeks every summer of hot/humid in the northeast
:rotfl::bs: More like 2-3 months in NJ, though I’m sure less in New England. And if you look up heat discomfort index, that 95F in the Arizona desert is the same as 85F at 65% humidity (routine on the East Coast) or 83F at 80% (not uncommon).
 
:rotfl::bs: More like 2-3 months in NJ, though I’m sure less in New England. And if you look up heat discomfort index, that 95F in the Arizona desert is the same as 85F at 65% humidity (routine on the East Coast) or 83F at 80% (not uncommon).
I've lived in New England most of my life; I would say that in the "old days - the 60's and 70's and possibly the 80's too), we used to have, maybe 5 to 15 days of hot, humid weather (ambient temperatures over 90 degrees with dew points above 70); but it seem like in the recent decades (last 15 to 20 years or so), we now get anywhere from 10 to 25 days a Summer with the hot, humid days. I remember, again in the old days, people would say that you didn't need central A/C in your house (and very few houses in New England had it, even newer, more expensive houses); now, almost everyone building new houses have central A/C built in and even people with older houses have retrofitted them with either central A/C or mini-splits. It's become almost a necessity, if you want relative comfort during the Summer months.
 
Yeah, I live near DC. Last two weeks I've often been doing a one hour morning bike ride followed by an hour or two of yard work. It's like I joined an expensive health club and get to spend several hours per day exercising in the steam room :-)
 
Yea, at least in New England, I'd stand by my estimate of 10 to 25 hot, humid days, as a rough estimate.
28.7 days is the average number of muggy days in Springfield, MA (guessing that's a good surrogate for berkshireskier's location) per Weatherspark, which has a graph and average number of muggy days per month listed below it.
2-3 weeks of hot/humid every summer is accurate.
It's accurate for Burlington, VT, 16.9 days. :icon-lol:

But NYC averages 46.0 muggy days and Trenton, NJ 48.2 days. So, I overestimated by about as many days as James underestimated.
It's like I joined an expensive health club and get to spend several hours per day exercising in the steam room
D.C averages 67.6 muggy days.

My 2020 summer abode near Clearwater, FL averages 215.2 muggy days, and even 4 days in January!
 
28.7 days is the average number of muggy days in Springfield, MA (guessing that's a good surrogate for berkshireskier's location) per Weatherspark, which has a graph and average number of muggy days per month listed below it.

It's accurate for Burlington, VT, 16.9 days. :icon-lol:

But NYC averages 46.0 muggy days and Trenton, NJ 48.2 days. So, I overestimated by about as many days as James underestimated.

D.C averages 67.6 muggy days.

My 2020 summer abode near Clearwater, FL averages 215.2 muggy days, and even 4 days in January!
Thanks, Tony, for that info about Springfield. Yea, I live about 50 miles west of Springfield and but at a higher elevation (Springfield is 70' above sea level and I'm at about 900' above sea level); we're probably slightly cooler than Springfield. What is the definition of "muggy" that you are using? In my mind, days where the temps are above 90 degrees and the humidity dewpoint is above 70 would be classified as "muggy" or "hot and humid" (although an 88 degree day with high humidity can also be very unpleasant).
 
What is the definition of "muggy" that you are using?
Weatherspark does not define it explicitly. But we have covered some of this ground before.
apparent-temp_vs_air-temp_and_humidity-png.41226

There seems consensus agreement that 35C/95F is the point at which desert heat gets into the "pizza oven" territory. The chart above is where I derive the info:
And if you look up heat discomfort index, that 95F in the Arizona desert is the same as 85F at 65% humidity (routine on the East Coast) or 83F at 80% (not uncommon).
Here's another chart bringing dewpoint into the picture.
TempDewpointHumidity.jpg

In my mind, days where the temps are above 90 degrees and the humidity dewpoint is above 70
That's borderline "very uncomfortable" in the second chart and heat index 97F in the first one.

So we accept that summer 85F on the East Coast is comparably uncomfortable as 95F in Phoenix/Vegas? That's the average high temperature in NY/NJ in July/August and Weatherspark classifies about half the days in those months as "muggy" so to me that implies that the "muggy" definition is close to that 95 heat index benchmark.

now, almost everyone building new houses have central A/C built in and even people with older houses have retrofitted them with either central A/C or mini-splits. It's become almost a necessity, if you want relative comfort during the Summer months.
This is another red flag on humidity for me. The A/C in my house has been on one day for about 3 hours so far this year. Opening windows at night and closing them during the day is very effective when the nights cool off significantly, and those average low temps 68/69 in NY/NJ are marginal in that regard. July-September here I'd guess we use the A/C 1/4 to 1/3 of days and only for 3-6 hours a day. A/C needs to run all night maybe 5 days a year max.
 
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the point at which desert heat gets into the "pizza oven" territory
In the face of ongoing anti-East Coast sentiment, I''ll happily trade a few weeks of unpleasant heat and humidity against six months of the year during which there's a significant and growing danger that a large portion of my city will burn down. You can have it.
 
I'm OK with westerners throwing EC humidity and bugs under the bus. The lobbying for a pipeline from the Great Lakes or anyplace in the east to make life in the desert possible, not OK with that. There is a reason big cities are on rivers.

On another subject, should we remove "2023" from the title of this thread?
 
A new thread every year?
I’m lazy, I just relabeled this one.

I’m currently experiencing muggy on a whole different level in the Yucatán. The next 4 days will be diving in Cozumel. Then we have 5 days at the Meisner’s 50th anniversary at El Cid Puerto Morales (between Cancun and Playa del Carmen).

We had a prior steambath season trip down here in August 2014 to snorkel with the whale sharks out of Isla Mujeres.
 
What is the definition of "muggy" that you are using?
Weatherspark does not define it explicitly.

Weatherspark uses dew point to classify mugginess, with a threshold of 65F for a "muggy day".

Humidity

We base the humidity comfort level on the dew point, as it determines whether perspiration will evaporate from the skin, thereby cooling the body. Lower dew points feel drier and higher dew points feel more humid. Unlike temperature, which typically varies significantly between night and day, dew point tends to change more slowly, so while the temperature may drop at night, a muggy day is typically followed by a muggy night.

The chart below identifies a "muggy vs dry season" and is included for the legend:
1752334297567.png


This aligns roughly with the threshold between "alright" and "uncomfortable" in Tony's second chart.
 
Our recent summer weather in SoCal has made up for the mellow start. Through the end of July I had used my A/C only 3 hours this year, that time being an evening arrival home on May 10 which was a short heat spike. Then I ran it 3-5 hours per day Aug. 4-6. But then we got sustained heat starting Aug. 20. Highs have been over 90F every day since then with about half those days in the 95/70F range. Yesterday was the first time the lows fell back into the low 60's and the A/C was not needed. For the past week with new heat pumps we were running the downstairs A/C 3-4 hours/day and the upstairs 5-8 hours/day.

By Aug. 21 I realized that the upstairs A/C was seriously deficient. The forced air system dates to 1990, and inspection showed a failed compressor that uses a refrigerant no longer permitted. We moved fast because heat pumps are eligible for a tax credit that expires at the end of the year. They were installed Aug. 27-28 and will get an inspection next week for the tax credit. Inflation rate since 1990 would predict 2.4x more expensive but the heat pumps were actually 4.8x more.

The new downstairs digital thermostat has a relative humidity gauge which has been close to 50% for the past week.
 
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