Ski Area Count 2023 Update

[Harvey]

less competition is more important than the desire for marquee terrain.

+1000

intangibles

Like fun?

For me competition is definitely a criterion. Snow and competition come before terrain.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

on powder days the desire for less competition is more important than the desire for marquee terrain.

I have a copyright on that thought -- even if you take the marquee terrain part out of the equation.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Snow and competition come before terrain.

The reality is that at most places the powder days are no more than 15% of days. So more often than not I am placing priority on terrain.

However, in the Northeast even on non-powder days competition is a factor because of scraped off manmade snow. So I'm sure that influences preferences of Plattekill over Hunter for example. Harvey's opinion is understandable because these are the only places he skis. But the scraped manmade is rarely a concern for me at Mammoth or in LCC.

There is no question that runs to resort bases in the Alps often have scraped off manmade snow or sticky slush in spring. However most of these places are so big I'm confident in my ability to avoid it for the vast majority of my ski day. That means in the worst case scenarios I'll download at the end of the day.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

scraped manmade is rarely a concern for me at Mammoth or in LCC

I can't speak to Mammoth; however, I've cancelled several trips to SLC due to lowtide conditions and hit scratchy snow numerous times in the Cottonwoods when I went ahead with the visit anyway -- I'll dig up the TRs as proof. It's not typical; but it does happen.

 

[Patrick]

However, in the Northeast even on non-powder days competition is a factor because of scraped off manmade snow.

 

[Tony Crocker]

lowtide conditions

make the scraped off manmade scenario more likely. Since James' Utah trips are in mid-December while mine are in March, he's going to see that a lot more than I am. If Mammoth is nearly all manmade in December, I'm not making the 5 hour drive plus overnight lodging for the same snow I could be skiing at Big Bear. I'm only at Mammoth with a decent natural snowpack, so I don't see much of the scraped snow there either. These December decisions are a lot easier for me because I'm not cancelling/rerouting air tickets.

 

[MarzNC]

Never bothered to count my list before. Only skied in the USA so far. I started skiing more regularly outside the southeast in 2010. I do ski safaris to satisfy my curiosity about a given region by sampling mountains, large and small. Skied in the northeast when my daughter was in school in Lake Placid or Boston 2013-19. Was curious enough to drive up to Michigan from North Carolina last season to experience midwest skiing using Ikon and Indy.

* - 1 day only

SOUTHEAST (starting 2004) - 10
Sugar
Beech
Cataloochee
Wintergreen
Massanutten (home mountain since 2004-05, on Indy)
Bryce
Snowshoe
Winterplace
Timberline (mostly after Perfect family took ownership)
Canaan Valley

MID-ATLANTIC or CATSKILLS (starting 2013) - 9
Blue Knob (EpicSki/DCSki gatherings 2013, 2016)
Elk
Whitetail
Roundup
Montage
Plattekill
Belleayre
* Hunter
* Windham

MIDWEST (Jan 2024) - 4
Caberfae
Nob's Nob
The Highlands
Boyne Mountain

NORTHEAST - NY, VT, QUE (2013-19) - 12
Whiteface
* St. Sauveur
* Tremblant
Gore
Stowe
* Smuggler's Notch
* Pico
* Sugarbush
* Mad River Glen
Killington
* Stratton
* West Mountain

NORTHEAST - MA, NH, ME (mostly 2017-19) - 13
Mount Sunapee
Loon
Wildcat
Sunday River
Wachusett
Jiminy Peak
Berkshire East
Tenney Mountain
* Attitash
* Bretton Woods
* Cannon
Waterville Valley
* Catamount

WEST - UTAH - 9
Alta (Mar 1970, *Jan 1982, Feb 1994, regularly starting 2008)
Snowbird
Brighton
Solitude
* Sundance
* Park City
Deer Valley
Snowbasin
Powder Mountain

WEST - COLORADO (mostly 2015 or later) - 18
Steamboat (4 days in 1995, 3 days in Feb 2020)
* Howelsen Hill
Arapahoe Basin
Snowmass
Aspen Mtn
Aspen Highlands
* Buttermilk
Telluride
Copper
* Monarch
Wolf Creek (starting 2021, annual Dec trips 2022-24)
* Loveland
Winter Park/Mary Jane
Vail (Dec 2023)
* Beaver Creek (Dec 2023)
* Keystone (Mar 2024)
* Breck (Mar 2024)
Crested Butte (Mar 2024)

WEST - MT, WY, ID, NM - 8
Bridger
Big Sky/Moonlight Basin
Grand Targhee
Jackson Hole
Sun Valley
* Santa Fe
Taos Ski Valley

WEST COAST - 11
Heavenly (Mar 2000)
* Kirkwood (Mar 2000)
Homewood
Alpine Meadows (Mar 2010)
* Sugar Bowl (Mar 2010)
Squaw Valley (Mar 2010; May 2018)
Northstar
Mt. Rose
Bachelor (May 2018)
* Mt. Hood Meadows (May 2018)
Mammoth (May 2018)

 

[Harvey]

The reality is that at most places the powder days are no more than 15% of days.

I said snow, I didn't specify powder. Your statistic proves my point: there is plenty of good snow that is not powder.

Harvey's opinion is understandable because these are the only places he skis.

I think you may have this backwards. Your viewpoint is built on assumptions that are so ingrained you don't even see them.

 

[Tony Crocker]

there is plenty of good snow that is not powder.

Which was exactly my point in the LCC/Mammoth comments. I do not think it's coincidental that Harvey and James have aversion to high profile, busy areas. In the Northeast scraped hardpack is a frequent consequence of traffic at those places, and sometimes at the "home runs" into resort bases in the Alps.

As for not understanding the Northeast, I recall this day, Dec. 4, 2018 at Killington. It was 11F two days after an all day rainstorm and Superstar was skiing nicely to closing bell. Why, because it was a Tuesday and nobody was there. My final comment that day:

I have read somewhere that nowhere is the difference between weekend and midweek skiing greater than in the Northeast. I suspect Superstar would not ski so well at 3:30PM on a weekend as it did today.

Not only is Harvey's skiing all in the Northeast, nearly all of it is on weekends, at least it was so documented this season. I'd prioritize lack of crowds above other criteria too if my skiing was constrained to the Northeast on weekends.

For 33 years nearly all of my Mammoth skiing was on weekends. In the early years there were some serious liftlines; by 1983 there was enough lift capacity to enable 25K days fairly routinely if all the lifts were open. As for traffic degrading snow conditions, that was only on a few runs leading to base lodges, and even then usually only in May and later months (even in the early years I wouldn't make the drive in early season until there was a natural snowpack). So that's how my mindset evolved in the direction of low skier density being a top priority mostly on powder days.

I'm more attuned to the virtues of low skier density in my retirement travels. Proportion of groomer skiing is going up in my 70's and groomer skiing is much better with low skier density, especially in spring conditions. The 3 days in northern Utah (Beaver Mt., Powder Mt., Snowbasin) after Iron Blosam this past year were good examples. This is also true in the Alps, but usually the big places are so big you can find the quiet sectors in them.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Since James' Utah trips are in mid-December while mine are in March, he's going to see that a lot more than I am.

I just reposted an AltaBird end of January 2003 report originally on Epicski that mentions the infamous top-to-bottom rainstorm. Of course, this was a very isolated incident; however, I'm just pointing out that sh*t happens even in vaunted "weatherproof" LCC, even midwinter. Back then, I didn't take many photos so it's mainly shots of participants.