Steep,Long GROOMERS NH??? VT??

[Gpaul]

Took day off from work to nurse my June/Mammoth shoulder fissure, hoping to be ready for 10 days solo skiing in Northeast, sometime during 3/6-24.

Although the Loaf is my favorite in the East, I may do without it and/or Sunday R., just to avoid the drive. Ditto for Jay.

I'm thinking of basing in Lincoln, NH and driving to the following: Cannon, Loon, Wildcat, Bretton Woods, Waterville, and Burke, VT (never heard about this last one, but a lot of folks claim it's tops for fall-line groomers??). Already know and like Cannon, Loon is a maybe for 1 day, but never been to the others.

Okay amigo(a)s, which of these is not good for Steep, Long, GROOMERS? Which deserve more than 1 day?

I respectfully request you don't suggest Stowe, the Bush, K-mart (which I believe has the crappiest trail layout), Stratton, etc. Been there many times and am looking for new experiences.

Gracias, again!

 

[riverc0il]

I'm thinking of basing in Lincoln, NH and driving to the following: Cannon, Loon, Wildcat, Bretton Woods, Waterville, and Burke, VT (never heard about this last one, but a lot of folks claim it's tops for fall-line groomers??). Already know and like Cannon, Loon is a maybe for 1 day, but never been to the others.

hi gpaul,

burke is definitely one of the best ski areas around for great cruising. nothing excessively steep. the dippers are certified fis super G status though and it takes so guts to go full out on that course over the rolls. no lines and cheap, only an hour from lincoln (good spot to base out of). cannon for sure with options like profile, skylight, zoomer, rocket, garys, and avalanche. perhaps best in new hampshire for what you are looking for. wildcat is also a good option for trails like lynx, nothing to steep here though but top to bottom equals long. bretton woods and waterville i would personally cross off the list, these would be the last places i would go for good steep groomers, not too long or steep. loon might be good to rip mid-week to avoid the crowds. they have a lot of groomed trails with a good pitch.

cannon and wildcat are rather weather dependant. they both can be either really awesome or not so great depending on what the recent weather was. though by march they are pretty dependable.

i would say focus in no particular order on burke, cannon, wildcat, with loon as a mid-week option. wildcat is the furthest from lincoln though at over an hour. loon and cannon the closest and burke at just about an hour.

 

[yak]

I would steer you to Vermont rather than NH (sorry NH folks). Stowe, Sugarbush, Killington, & Jay Peak have some pretty challenging terrain. Try to hit them midweek rather than weekends.

Or Sunday River in Maine.

MNSHO

 

[riverc0il]

I would steer you to Vermont rather than NH (sorry NH folks). Stowe, Sugarbush, Killington, & Jay Peak have some pretty challenging terrain. Try to hit them midweek rather than weekends.

Or Sunday River in Maine.

MNSHO

man yak, i couldn't disagree more. he is looking for steep and long groomers. jay peak is definitely out. jay peak is an awesome tree and powder mountain, other wise i don't think it is much to write home about. the dude specifically he said he didn't want to hear about the rest of the ski areas you mentioned, so not sure what the point of mentioning them is? quite frankly, VT does get more snow and has better powder and tree options than NH, but i think NH has better steep cruising options than VT with mountains like cannon, wildcat, loon, etc. loaf is a great option. personally, i can't stand sunday river but it does have some steep cruisers. mid-week highly recommended for the river and don't expect to get what you pay for.

 

[yak]

I would steer you to Vermont rather than NH (sorry NH folks). Stowe, Sugarbush, Killington, & Jay Peak have some pretty challenging terrain. Try to hit them midweek rather than weekends.

Or Sunday River in Maine.

MNSHO

man yak, i couldn't disagree more. he is looking for steep and long groomers. jay peak is definitely out. jay peak is an awesome tree and powder mountain, other wise i don't think it is much to write home about. the dude specifically he said he didn't want to hear about the rest of the ski areas you mentioned, so not sure what the point of mentioning them is? quite frankly, VT does get more snow and has better powder and tree options than NH, but i think NH has better steep cruising options than VT with mountains like cannon, wildcat, loon, etc. loaf is a great option. personally, i can't stand sunday river but it does have some steep cruisers. mid-week highly recommended for the river and don't expect to get what you pay for.

I agree to disagree with your disagreement.

I didn't catch his last line until I re-read it, but my opinion still stands. Canon's steeps are all at the bottom, the steep runs are short runs. Jay has similar cruisers from the tram, and steeps on Jet, but IMO better lifts than Canon. Wildcat has few long runs, but only one lift worth riding. I just plain hate Loon so I can't bring myself to recommend it to anyone. It has maybe 3 or 4 challenging trails, the rest is creampuff land.

I agree on the Loaf but it just too damn far to drive unless you can do 3-4 days.

Attitash has some steep terrain and they groom the sh*t out of it, but can be boring after a day.

Sunday River is my favorite mt outside VT. I think it has a hell of a lot more variety than anything in NH. Steeps, awesome trees, lots more terrain, and the ability to dodge a crowd on the weekend (try that at Loon). With the Mobile $15 off discount coupon you definitely can get what you pay for.

I guess it depends on what you're used to. I prefer areas where I don't have to ski a trail more than a couple time a day (unless it's still untracked).

BTW, how's that arm healing up?

 

[riverc0il]

Canon's steeps are all at the bottom, the steep runs are short runs.

we will definitely have to disagree but this assessment is wrong. profile and skylight are rather steep trails and both on the upper mountain.

sustained steeps is the real issue any ways, not the length of the run. zoomer is perhaps the best lift in all of new england for lapping sustained steeps quickly. cannonball quad to profile and skylight on the upper mountain is an even longer yo-yo.

VT's biggest flaw in almost all of it's mountains is the nature of having a flat run out at various places throughout the mountain, often times after a steep upper mountain trail. jay peak is the worst offender, pico and haystack quickly come to mind as well as one of my favorites, magic. burke is perhaps the most consistantly steep of VT's mountains from the summit to mid-burke, the run out is the beginner terrain to the sherburne, an ideal placement of the run out for beginners.

we will disagree on sunday river being a great mountain, but i would also like to point out that sunday river is VERY much akin to new hampshire mountains in many respects. many more than the similarities to VT so i find it odd for you to advocate for VT and sunday river, two quite different quaries.

also, as an expert skier that can hit pretty much anything in new england, i disagree with your assessment of loon. i hate the place, especially on the weekend. but it does offer some decent terrain mid-week and if you can over look the price and atmosphere and hit it mid-week, it isn't a terrible mountain. have you ever skied mike's woods at loon? a dream to say that least. for what this guy is looking for, loon offers steep and groomed so if we are making recommendations based on the criteria given, loon mid-week remains an excellent option.

so... respectfully disagree on most of that. but these forums would be pretty boring if we all agreed and differing opinion should likely help Gpaul make the best decision.

the arm is on the mend. out of the splint except when travelling outside to prevent damage from a fall. PT has me doing weight lifting to get the muscles back which have atrophied beyond belief. as much as it sucks, it is amazing building a body part back up from absolutely nothing yet frustrating at not yet being able to do complex movements that i would normally consider simple. march is still looking good, but i don't think i will be doing anything except groomers while the lifts are turning. i am hoping i will be able to fully support body weight under a pole plant by the time the new england backcountry scene takes off where the lifts end. though i doubt i will be able to do anything very much adventurous such as tucks, but we'll see. i have come a long way in just over a month so who knows what another month will bring. i can flex almost similar to my left arm at this point, but extension is stuck around 25 degrees. normal arm hang for most people is likely around ~10, i would guess, for reference.

 

[yak]

Canon's steeps are all at the bottom, the steep runs are short runs.

sustained steeps is the real issue any ways, not the length of the run. zoomer is perhaps the best lift in all of new england for lapping sustained steeps quickly.

I would offer White Heat, Shockwave, and Obsession as three sustained steep trails. I know they flung huge hype around when it opened, but it's not without merit, they're pretty steep. (Way back when, I was lucky enough to hit White Heat in a foot of powder on top of a groom, that was my most memorable trip down that hill) Another favorite there Black Hole - short, but the G-force you have coming out of the turn at the bottom are shweeet.

VT's biggest flaw in almost all of it's mountains is the nature of having a flat run out at various places throughout the mountain, often times after a steep upper mountain trail. jay peak is the worst offender, pico and haystack quickly come to mind as well as one of my favorites, magic.

You can say that about almost any hill. It's really about how much vertical you can ski before it flattens out.

we will disagree on sunday river being a great mountain, but i would also like to point out that sunday river is VERY much akin to new hampshire mountains in many respects. many more than the similarities to VT so i find it odd for you to advocate for VT and sunday river, two quite different quaries.

My point is that it has so much terrain, you never get bored.

also, as an expert skier that can hit pretty much anything in new england, i disagree with your assessment of loon. i hate the place, especially on the weekend. but it does offer some decent terrain mid-week and if you can over look the price and atmosphere and hit it mid-week, it isn't a terrible mountain. have you ever skied mike's woods at loon? a dream to say that least. for what this guy is looking for, loon offers steep and groomed so if we are making recommendations based on the criteria given, loon mid-week remains an excellent option.

Nope, maybe someday you can show me Mike's - mid-week of course :wink:

the arm is on the mend. out of the splint except when travelling outside to prevent damage from a fall. PT has me doing weight lifting to get the muscles back which have atrophied beyond belief. as much as it sucks, it is amazing building a body part back up from absolutely nothing yet frustrating at not yet being able to do complex movements that i would normally consider simple. march is still looking good, but i don't think i will be doing anything except groomers while the lifts are turning. i am hoping i will be able to fully support body weight under a pole plant by the time the new england backcountry scene takes off where the lifts end. though i doubt i will be able to do anything very much adventurous such as tucks, but we'll see. i have come a long way in just over a month so who knows what another month will bring. i can flex almost similar to my left arm at this point, but extension is stuck around 25 degrees. normal arm hang for most people is likely around ~10, i would guess, for reference.

I feel your pain, bro. I had rotator cuff surgery the day the Sox won the Series, and it was a long road back. It helps to have a positive attitude and a serious jones to get back on the skis. Keep the faith!

 

[riverc0il]

the river does have steep groomers, a great mid-week option as the place gets scraped to crap on the weekends. i was hesitating to give the river a nod since it is a pretty far away from lincoln, driving over the kanc in the winter isn't too fun sometimes either.

 

[TroutBum]

Sunday River is a bit 'vertically challenged', but the amount of terrain, plus Oz in general, is worth the trip.

Plus, Riv-- The best way to SR from Lincoln is up 93 to 3 to 115 to 2 over to Bethel. You can do it in about 90 minutes. The Kanc route might be slightly shorter, but it takes much longer due to twists, turns, and frost heaves.

Mike

 

[BobR]

If you stay in Lincoln and its midweek... I would give Loon a try if it was the weekend.. I would give you a tour. Crowds really thin there after Feb vacation. Waterville has some nice med sized runs if you ski the Sunny side chair there is some challenge. Cannon is worth the trip. Others have been there more than me, but they get alot of snow.

From Lincoln you can day trip to the River. I do it maybe 15 to 20 times a year. the river is my favorite excellent lift system. White cap offers Obsession and Shock wave thery are Great and sounds like what you are looking for. I like vortex over toward Aurora and airglow is Awesome.

Wildcat is great to cruise and you get the consitant long runs.
If you stay in gorham NH you could make all these area in about 45 min max. except Waterville. add 35 more min.

The town and country motor inn is a nice place good size rooms Pool hot tub food on premises.
http://www.townandcountryinn.com
They do have ticket deals also.
I send people from AZ there.

 

[Patrick]

What a discussion... I didn't have time to read everything.

Long steep groomers...

My two favorites 3 ski areas in the East are Sugarloaf, Stowe and Whiteface.

Sugarloaf and Whiteface (I know, there's not in Vt or Nh) are great steep groomers.

Other places... Sunday River, Cannon (Avalanche). Ste.Anne (south side) and Le Massif (Charlevoix trail) has a few, but that is getting a bit too far. :roll:

 

[Chromer]

Sunday River is my favorite mt outside VT.

SR has (moderately steep) groomers, and long groomers, but not really any long steep groomers.

Hop the border and spend a day at Orford? A high speed run down Maxi on the front face under the gondola can be one heck of a rush. It's worth a day (if they get some more snow...) Easy to get to, as well, being 2 minutes off an interstate-style highway.

Number 6 on this map Call it 45 minutes past Burke.

 

[Chromer]

The Kanc route might be slightly shorter, but it takes much longer due to twists, turns, and frost heaves.

Mike

You misspelled "tourists." The hairpin is a 40mph corner going east, and a 45 mph corner going west. When wet. Everything else is fine at 65+.

 

[Tony Crocker]

After years of reading eastern reports here, I am not impressed by the reliability of those from Loon and Cannon. I'm not sure what the logistics of your schedule are. Are you in the Boston area on business or to visit friends/family but able to use intermittent days off to ski? That's the only reason to base as far south as Lincoln. If you have a whole week you should go farther north, whether in VT or NH/ME for better snow odds. From Gorham you have Wildcat and Sunday River easy access, and day trips to Sugarloaf (which by both terrain and time of year reputation sounds like your best eastern fit to me) are possible.

If it's a totally discretionary vacation, I'll question your sanity for going to New England from the DR in March vs. Denver, SLC or Mammoth/Tahoe.

 

[yak]

If it's a totally discretionary vacation, I'll question your sanity for going to New England from the DR in March vs. Denver, SLC or Mammoth/Tahoe.

Now there's some words of wisdom! I would add BC to that list.

 

[Gpaul]

rivercOil, excellent advice! WV is nearly kaput, but BW deserves 1 day, if just to ski all of it in 1 full day. Gracias!

yak and river, what is that $15 Mobil discount, where can I get it.

You mentioned Attitash, does it really deserve 1 full day (including Bear)? Oh, great dissentions, nice insights in the cat fight.


BobR, how about we meet at Sunday River, I'm thinking on a Friday (3/10 or 3/17)? Tks for Gorham advice; if I decide to hang around SR, and maybe SL for more than 2 days it may be the ticket! I had actually thought of sleeping in Farmington to do both SR and SL 4 days Fri-Mon. We'll see as the time approaches.

Canada buffs, Patrick et Chromer? I will definitely look into Orford, although it may be a stretch. Better than Sunday River? Always had a desire to ski those 4 places down near the US border (Sutton, Orford, Owl's Head and the other?).

What/which is the Kanc Route? In good conditions, should it really be less time than 93-3-115-2?


Tony, saludos! Strictly a Solo, Pleasure trip. My family would never forgive me for going out West sans them; that is THE family vacation every year! Plus, a 4 hour direct flight to Boston will keep me as close as possible just in case (DIA and SLC are at least 2 flights, and no less than 8 hours alltold).

Thanky All, great advice!

 

[riverc0il]

gorham is MUCH cheaper than lincoln, so if you are planning on time at wildcat and sunday river... it might be a good idea to base out of gorham and make the drive for any cannon or loon days you might want. you will have to make the drive one way or the other if you want to hit all those areas.

 

[Patrick]

Canada buffs, Patrick et Chromer? I will definitely look into Orford, although it may be a stretch. Better than Sunday River? Always had a desire to ski those 4 places down near the US border (Sutton, Orford, Owl's Head and the other?).

These places are great, but I wouldn't talk about long steep groomers. The top of Orford is steep and some of the trails are crazy, but I wouldn't included long steep groomers.

#1 is definately Sugarloaf for that... followed closely by Whiteface in my books for the long steep groomers.

 

[NHpowderhound]

Riv wrote

gorham is MUCH cheaper than lincoln, so if you are planning on time at wildcat and sunday river... it might be a good idea to base out of gorham and make the drive for any cannon or loon days you might want. you will have to make the drive one way or the other if you want to hit all those areas.

Excellent advice! The Town and Country Motor Lodge is a great choice for the Gorham area and you'll get more hotel for less $$$ than Lincoln or North Conway. And if you feel like hitting up the tax free outlets of North Conway then it's a short but very scenic 25 minute ride.
I think Wildcat has some of the best steep groomers around. But that is IF they are groomed. And as stated before, Wildcat and Cannon are very weather dependant. When groomed,the Wildcat trail is one of the best around not just for terrain but for it's in your face views of Mount Washington. As are the Lynx and Catapult trails. Hell, I still love cranking down the Polecat trail in the afternoons! Even the trails off the lower mountain lift Bobcat offer some great cruisers. Lower Catapult, Bobcat, and Cheetah can still make the seasoned skiers legs burn !
((*
*))NHPH

 

[Gpaul]

Hola again! Before I change to Gorham, I found 2 REALLY cheap places in Lincoln: Woodward Inn and Parker's Motel. Can anyone comment on these vs. each other, and vs. Town and Country in Gorham?