Tahoe South....

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q

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I am after a little advice and such like for my forthcoming trip beginning March 10th in a currently sunny, almost spring like Scotland from where I leave and via Aberdeen-Amsterdam-Minneapolis eventually land in Billings, Montana.

I head west each winter, normally to Montana, drive vast distances and ski small community areas, local mountains and destination resorts alike so I am aware of the distances between places, how bad places will be(relative to other places) and that come late March some places will probably be struggling. I skied the hottest March day on record in SLC so I know all about wheather :lol:

Anyway, a rough guess of my plan is as follows and I am open to change although the quest to see new places will probably rule the head saying not too.

Monday March 10th - Fly to Billings
Tuesday March 11th - Bridger Bowl MT(skied here before) and stay with a few friends in Philipsburg
Wednesday March 12th - Discovery Basin MT(skied here before) stay in P'burg
Thursday March 13th - Maverick Mountain MT and then Kelly Canyon ID for a couple hours night skiing and probably stay in Idaho Falls
Friday March 14th - Soldier Mountain ID with a possible hike of Blizzard Ski Area in the Craters of the Moon Park on route. Stay probably in Twin Falls.
Saturday March 15th - Magic Mountain ID then I have some choices....

Part of what I really love is seeing new, unusual, almost unheard of areas and one such place is Elko Snobowl NV. They have a decent base that might see them through March, open weekends only and I figure that this may be the one chance I ever get to visit. That goes with Blizzard ID but I cant really fit it into a plan as it only opens Saturdays and I have no way of knowing whether it will open.

So, if the snow phone says "open" then I can either head to Elko or head towards Utah and hit either Pine Creek WY on the way down(via a great detour) or maybe the Ogden resorts.

Right now I fancy Elko but the thought of driving to SLC and then back again a few days later is the only downside.

So we will say...

Sunday March 16th - Elko Snobowl :p Staying in Motel 6 SLC :D
Monday March 17th - TBD - Utah certainly and between Pow Mow, Snowbasin, Solitude, Alta, Brighton and Snowbird. Motel 6 and meeting a local for a night at the NBA v Raptors.
Tuesday 18th March - As 17th

Wednesday 19th March - Depending on weather and such like by now I may be well on my way to Reno the night before and I will probably hit somewhere like Mt Rose or Diamond Peak in a shorter day.

This for me is when it gets interesting!

At the very least I will spend 6 more days skiing around Tahoe. I want to hit 2 resorts per day and see Sugar Bowl/Soda Springs, Donner Ski Ranch/Boreal, Homewood/Granlibakkken and on either the Saturday or Sunday I have an easy day to go to Stover/Coppervale. Any other days I will go to the bigger places. I'll probably stay in Reno.

Now, and I know Tony has made his opinion clear and I respect that a lot. I have a choice of either the following or staying around Tahoe for the extra days before arrving in Las Vegas on the same date below.

Wednesday March 26th - Bear Valley
Thursday March 27th - Dodge Ridge
Friday March 28th - Badger Pass
Saturday March 29th - Sierra Summit
Sunday March 30th - Shirley Meadows

Monday and Tuesday I'd like to hit somewhere like Mt Waterman and Baldy.

Wednesday 2nd April - Ski Las Vegas in the morning and head towards Colorado where I aim to ski Beaver Creek on the Thursday as its the 2nd last remaining area(other than 3-4 community hills) in Colorado that I havenot skied. I will then stay in the Best Western in Frisco with my dad and brother before driving to Billings on Tuesday 8th and flying home the next day.

I want to take my dad to Winter Park and will probably do Keystone and Loveland during the weekend and might take them to Eldora.

Anyone care to comment, offer any advice?

One thing that I am baffled with is the following:-

Badger Pass Snow Chain RulesvCaltrans rules on chains. I will have a 4x4 will I need chains even in clear roads as they seem to contradict!

Biggest question is whether the 5 resorts south of Tahoe on my route to SoCal can be expected to still be open(they claim they will be). If not then a lot more will fall into place :D
 
That is some ski trip you are about to take, best of luck on your adventure. I can comment on Homewood/Granlibakkken.
Homewood is worth the stop, but Granlibakkken is just a single rope tow that might be a vertical of 300ft. It's mostly for sledding. It's fairly close to homewood, so you might want to see it first. I spent 4 nights at the Granlibakkken lodge and the ski hill was not worth it to me.
You might want to check out Sierra-at-Tahoe as another option to Granlibakkken, it has that small area feel like Homewood, and is about a 40min drive from Homewood.

Just my thoughts, I am sure others on this site will add more.

Sounds like a great trip to enjoy some spring (or winter) skiing!
 
Cheers for that Mike,

I'd do a 3/4 day at Homewood and then an hour at most at Granlibakken to see it. With the £ v $ so good for me just now lodging comes in at around £20-30 a night which is really cheap and all I need is a bed. A day ticket even though I only ski an hour at some places is cheaper than a day back home so days work out reasonable.

With gas hitting £1.05 a litre in Scotland and 3.7 litres in a gallon it costs me almost $8 a gallon back her so count yourselves lucky. I do each winter!
 
I can't comment that much on the obscure places in Montana/Idaho, except that one of the reasons they are obscure is that most of them don't get as much snow as the more well known places. But I think that part of the trip is OK because:
1) It's mid-March, not likely to have a serious meltdown, and
2) Snowfall has to be above average this year so far, based on the big numbers at Big Mountain and Bridger Bowl.

The group you're hitting March 26-30 on the western Sierra are all low altitude and likely to have spring conditions unless there is recent snow, though snow cover should be adequate. Shirley Meadows is at least as small as Granlibakken and not not worth the trouble. Bear Valley is by far the most interesting of the group. If the objective is to rack up area count, go with all 4. Otherwise I'd spend a couple of days at Bear Valley and a couple in Yosemite, as much to enjoy to park itself when it's not busy as to ski 700 foot Badger Pass.

I don't know whether you skied June Mt. when you were at Mammoth, but that might be one more reason (besides Mammoth's superior snow and terrain) to visit the eastern Sierra instead of L.A. locals.

With regard to the L.A. locals, you have a car and can be flexible. I can tell you that if it doesn't snow much in March, Baldy and Waterman will be toast by the time you show up April 1. Another alternative if you're on the western Sierra route is to come down to Bakersfield and cut across 58 to I-40 at Barstow, then continue on to spend a couple of days around Flagstaff. Arizona Snowbowl is quiet midweek, and early April is an ideal time to hike the nearby Grand Canyon.

Ski Las Vegas has similar snowfall to Baldy/Waterman, though it is higher and preserves snow better. So don't make that trip either unless you can confirm a few days ahead that it has snow. You also pass right by Brian Head driving Vegas to Colorado.
 
Montana/Idaho is set up nicely for sure. The fact so many small resorts are open this winter is testament to that in Idaho. Last few winters the real regional resorts have barely opened and this year Bald Mountain is claiming a 60" base and Snowhaven a 80" base. A bit out of the way if I aint going to Wahsington and Oregon though.

I guess come late March the decision will come whether to come south or head east earlier.

I skied about 2-3 days at June in my 96 trip and I might even have met some superstars cos the US Nationals were on although back then I was non the wiser! Great place and the QMC lift matched my initials. Like myself, proved to be unstable haha!

I have a contact at Arizona Snowbowl due to my website and I looked at that although I guess it is only possible if SoCal is finished and I have days to spare. I skied Brian Head last winter which was brilliant. A few inches pow, "locals" who only wanted to ski the groomers and I was looking for every last fresh on the hill. Would love to go back but think if things are that bad down south then unlikely that I will tbe down that way.

Excellent advice though Tony, spot on. Someone kill that Waterman thread and I think I will give up on SoCal!!
 
In order of interest, I'd rate the southern resorts you mention in this order: Baldy, Snowbowl, Waterman, Vegas. The most likely scenario is that Baldy will have Thunder open but not any lower mountain terrain. If Snowbowl is still 100% open, that might tip the balance IMHO, especially if you want to do something at the Grand Canyon.

I should mention that Big Bear will probably be 90+% open and certainly not crowded midweek in April. In heavy spring snow its intermediate pitched terrain may not ski as well as the steeper Baldy or Snowbowl, though they will make the best of it with intense grooming. Mountain High is quite interesting when both East and West are in full operation, but I avoid it when it's confined to the major runs on West, which is often the case that late in the season.
 
Sorry, I have to chuckle :lol: when I see someone from Scotland planning to ski Granlibakkken, Soda Springs and Shirley Meadows. Too bad Trinity Mountain or Snow Forest isn't open.
 
Cheers Tony, I will bear that in mind and see what happens the first week or so that I am in the US and plan the "missing week" once I see whats on the ground.

SoCal Rider, I can't even begin to wonder why :lol: Seriously though, I love seeing new places and the thought of spending 2 weeks at Heavenly or Breckenridge just does nothing for me at all. By going to these smaller places I get the chance to see IMO the real USA and although this trip I am not revisiting many places other than a couple in Montana, Utah and Colorado I normally make return visits to the places I really like. Loveland and Powder Mountain are two such places.

Slightly off track but I always laugh at people back in the UK who pile into a huge fridge to ski or snowboard a run the length of my arm yet the mention of hitting a resort with under 2000ft of vertical and they look at you funny :lol:

Any ideas regards the policy at Badger Pass. It seems to say you must have chains in the car(I will have a 4x4) yet even when the rating gets to the 2nd highest it says a 4x4 does not need to use chains. In essence will I get to the park gate on a beautiful spring morning to be turned away in my gas guzzler for not having chains?
 
RE: Chains. Yes, they say all must carry them, but will they actually check? My guess is no. I was just in Tahoe and riding in a truck with 4X4 and we were waived through on the 80 without having to stop. Presumably, they want you to have them in case it gets to R3.
 
Wednesday 19th March - Depending on weather and such like by now I may be well on my way to Reno the night before and I will probably hit somewhere like Mt Rose or Diamond Peak in a shorter day.

This for me is when it gets interesting!

At the very least I will spend 6 more days skiing around Tahoe. I want to hit 2 resorts per day and see Sugar Bowl/Soda Springs, Donner Ski Ranch/Boreal, Homewood/Granlibakkken and on either the Saturday or Sunday I have an easy day to go to Stover/Coppervale. Any other days I will go to the bigger places. I'll probably stay in Reno.
Click to expand...

Some interesting choices....

These are mostly overflow, beginner areas that somewhat start scaling back operations in March. Especially weekdays. So while there can be 360 skiing at Boreal and Donner - they begin to curtail operations to just a few key lifts.

Soda Springs. I look at it. It's obvious that the larger lift is not always open. I think it mostly exists as a snow-play area for Bay Area/Sacramento people. Like in let's go look at the snow.

Boreal. Snow play area with a focus on snowboarders and parks. I have done the ski thing here once. There is a slight pitch at the top. Otherwise, dodging boarders is the main activity. Like do not get in the way of landing, Bro. Hey Brah - it's my turn! And they actively seek the Bro-Brah crew.

Donner Ski Ranch. Across the road from Sugar Bowl. My college has a cabin near here, so I have done a day. It's OK for a few runs with friends on the cheap.

Granlibakken. It think it exists more for the guests who hang around their condos all day and decide they should do something at 1130am instead of wasting the day. I have yet to verify that this really exists. But nor do I really care.
 
yet the mention of hitting a resort with under 2000ft of vertical and they look at you funny
Click to expand...
Seriously, given the abundance of areas out here I would draw the line around 1000 vertical. Particularly if you have to go out of your way to get there.

Thus give a pass to:
Coppervale Ski Hill (Base: 5230', Top: 5950') also too low and a detour drive.
Agree with Chris that Donner/Boreal/Soda Springs/Granlibakken not worth it.
Shirley Meadows Ski Resort: summit: 7,100 feet , base: 6,700 feet, low and a detour drive.
Badger is 700 vertical, but if you've never been to Yosemite you should probably still go.
Elko Snobowl: Top Lift Elevation: 6890 feet, Vertical Drop: 650 feet sounds marginal given that it is also low altitude and a detour drive.
Magic Mountain ID: 700 vertical, 120 acres

Obscure but likely worth visiting assuming decent snow:
Discovery MT: 614 acres developed, 2100 acres permitted, 1670 vertical
Maverick MT: 2,020 vertical, 214 acres(?)
Kelly Canyon ID: 1,000 vertical, 640 acres
Soldier Mountain ID: 1,425 vertical, 1150 acres
You didn't mention Montana Snowbowl near Missoula, 2,600 vertical, 950 acres, or JSpin's old home Lost Trail with 1,800 vertical. I'd substitute these for Elko and Magic, assuming logistics work.

In Tahoe/Sierra the "small resorts" you should see are (in probable order of interest ) Sugar Bowl, Mt. Rose, Bear Valley, Homewood and Dodge Ridge. Diamond Peak would also be preferred over any of the Donner Summit group.

Hopefully when you're on the Montana/Idaho leg of the trip, you can check in here to see how the California/Southwest areas are holding up.
 
Tony Crocker":10rcxuos said:
yet the mention of hitting a resort with under 2000ft of vertical and they look at you funny
Click to expand...
Seriously, given the abundance of areas out here I would draw the line around 1000 vertical. Particularly if you have to go out of your way to get there.

Thus give a pass to:
Coppervale Ski Hill (Base: 5230', Top: 5950') also too low and a detour drive.
Agree with Chris that Donner/Boreal/Soda Springs/Granlibakken not worth it.
Shirley Meadows Ski Resort: summit: 7,100 feet , base: 6,700 feet, low and a detour drive.
Badger is 700 vertical, but if you've never been to Yosemite you should probably still go.
Elko Snobowl: Top Lift Elevation: 6890 feet, Vertical Drop: 650 feet sounds marginal given that it is also low altitude and a detour drive.
Magic Mountain ID: 700 vertical, 120 acres

Obscure but likely worth visiting assuming decent snow:
Discovery MT: 614 acres developed, 2100 acres permitted, 1670 vertical
Maverick MT: 2,020 vertical, 214 acres(?)
Kelly Canyon ID: 1,000 vertical, 640 acres
Soldier Mountain ID: 1,425 vertical, 1150 acres
You didn't mention Montana Snowbowl near Missoula, 2,600 vertical, 950 acres, or JSpin's old home Lost Trail with 1,800 vertical. I'd substitute these for Elko and Magic, assuming logistics work.

In Tahoe/Sierra the "small resorts" you should see are (in probable order of interest ) Sugar Bowl, Mt. Rose, Bear Valley, Homewood and Dodge Ridge. Diamond Peak would also be preferred over any of the Donner Summit group.

Hopefully when you're on the Montana/Idaho leg of the trip, you can check in here to see how the California/Southwest areas are holding up.
Click to expand...

If you really just want to tick off resorts -- you could easily ski Donner-Soda-Boreal in one day. I think Donner is the best. Boreal is open nights. Soda cannot take more than one hour.

To be honest, I can see visiting a few smaller areas from a novelty point of view. But a lot of this plan strikes me as a little too much - unless a true score card is involved.

What is skiing?

I grew up skiing - and found if I raced I was allowed to go more. So I spent a lot of time on any icey hill in the Northeast skiing gates. Sexy places like Big Birch, Mt. Peter, Sterling Forest, Mt. Tom, Song Mt., Mt. Southington, Mohawk Mt., etc. Places where you need to put Mt. in your name to prove you are a mountain. It's allowed to ski a lot of places - but it was also awful. Sitting around, cold, waiting for whatever, pressure, and trying to put early runs/training to use.

I had been to Whiteface many times for Empire State Games - never really skied it until a week or so ago.

I have a friend who came in 4th for 2 swimming categories for the Atlanta Olympics in 2006. The team only takes the top 3 finishers. Never really went in a pool to swim a lap again.

How does this happen? When you suck any of pleasure/life/soul out of it. And I wonder if this trip is doing that. You might achieve a lot of numerical feats. (And there are some who do a lot of numbers here). But I think the time is better spent traversing across Alpines Meadows broad ridges for corn/powder, hitting some weird, tight rock formations at Squaw or savoring Lake Tahoe from Heavenly/Homewood.

I realize we have a lot of different personal motivations, but when does a grueling trip just become gruesome? I'd rather stay away from that line.
 
I believe Chris and I have the highest area counts of FTO regulars. But as with vertical foot counts, I don't let the tail wag the dog. Despite living in California I have not yet skied Homewood, Diamond Peak, Dodge Ridge or Donner-Soda-Boreal.

The recommendations I've made in previous posts presume q has skied the major areas at Tahoe and would rather see some new ones. But like Chris I would draw the line at those of marginal interest. And it does seem somewhat puzzling that someone from as far away as Scotland would give up a day at Squaw or Kirkwood for some of these places. Or Mammoth for Waterman or half of Baldy.

The obscure hills in Montana are probably an exception. They are nearly devoid of destination visitors, but their stats support the enthusiasm we occasionally hear from their local skiers.
 
The biggest problem with Bear Valley and Dodge Ridge in the spring is that they due not have true alpine areas like Kirkwood, Alpine or Squaw where you have North-facing bowls that hold good snow even when temperatures begin to rise. Plus Bear's steepest runs are below the lodge and drop to 6600 feet. Watch temperature at http://store.bearvalley.com/bear%20Weat ... hourly.htm and if it is not freezing, I would not go. I've had three or four good powder days at Dodge, but they were in Jan. when the snow levels are below 3000.

I've also had good days at Diamond Peak, Donner Ski Ranch and Homewood. Homewood can ski big for only having four main chairs. They upgraded their quad, which may have been the first one at Tahoe, to high-speed for this winter. The best skiing when I was there at the beginning of Feb. was on Ellis Chair which was giving us 1200 vertical feet of untracked 8-12" dry powder. The quad was more wind-packed so it only skied like 4-6 inches. No trip report as I was playing hooky, but here are some pictures.
 

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I do have skepticism about these lower altitude western Sierra places being sloppy on warm spring days, which tseeb has confirmed. If we have a hot March like last year you would be well advised to spend most of your Sierra time at Kirkwood and Mammoth. Mt. Rose is the only one of the smaller areas with high altitude. But in 2006 it dumped the whole month of March and much of April. So the best advice we can give is to be flexible and let the current conditions influence your choice of areas.
 
Well, thanks a lot for the advice and information guys, really appreciate it. I have to admit that Tahoe and SoCal along with Oregon and the resorts around Seattle are the only bigger(generally) areas I have not been to in the western USA so I can only go by what I pick up here and there.

I had been thinking of booking a cheap room for the first week of my Cali dream and then from there either ski longer in Tahoe or head south but would not be confirming anything til I am on the ground. I do like seeing new places though and I will go to a few of the smaller resorts I mention although it may be for only an hour at the end of a day to see the area for myself.

Anyway, greatly appreciate the advice and keep it coming. From a UK perspective Tahoe is largely spoken about as "Heavenly" so we tend to not hear much about the rest.

As for the first part of the trip, thats entirely a different story and I Iike to think of myself as reasonably knowledgable on Idaho/Montana areas having been to all in Montana other than Turner and Maverick and most main areas in Idaho. I've spent over 20 days skiing Big Mountain I'd reckon and if pushed to live somewhere for the rest of my days Whitefish would be that place.

Snowbowl is a great hill, similar to Discovery in that it has plenty steeps. Discovery to me skis way bigger than its acreage, vert and most areas around by. Staying with friends make Disco more practical and I loe the area and P'burg. I will have a Montana Martini this winter :wink:

I am going off track but in terms of Montana resorts I have been to i'd rate then in this order and afraid to say Lost Trail is way down! All about opinions which is the main thing.

1) Big Mountain
2) Discovery Basin
3) Big Sky
4) Moonlight
5) Montana Snowbowl
6) Bridger Bowl
7) Red Lodge
8) Showdown
9) Lost Trail
10) Great Divide
11) Teton Pass
12) Blacktail
13) Bear Paw
 
Discovery basin is tiny. How could it be ranked higher than Bridger or Big Sky? I understand that smaller resorts have their charm. (Discovery Basin is large by eastern standards.) Nonetheless, I would imagine Big Sky due to its low skier density, huge terrain, and superior snowfall would be a better skiing experience than Discovery basin.
 
rfarren's point is one reason why I generally have a strong bias toward the larger areas. You may look at a 3,000 acre area (Big Sky) and consider most of its terrain uninteresting, but the 500 acre slice of it that is exciting may well be bigger than the entire small area to which you are comparing it.

Bridger has loads of great terrain, but nearly all of it requires a tough hike up the ridge. And most of us wimpy vacationers are only up to one of those a day.

I don't know if the comment about "2100 acres permitted" at Discovery means there is a lot of accessible sidecountry.
 
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