Planning for a season on snow.

Topics of a general nature regarding snowsports, which don't easily fit into one of our other Liftlines categories. This is also the place to post Letters to the Editor.

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Re: Planning for a season on snow.

Postby jimk » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:58 am

Hello tseeb! Glad you are well and making it through this lousy covid period. I used to pray for snow, now I pray for a vaccine. :-s
Just for fun, I checked on priceline/expedia how much to rent a car in salt lake city for dec 13, 2020 to mar 28, 2021 and it's about $18 or 19 per day (full size/premium car) or $3100-3200 for that length of time. An SUV would be about 1000 more or you could buy a set of chains for $60 and use them for snowy days.
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Re: Planning for a season on snow.

Postby Tony Crocker » Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:45 am

ChrisC wrote:If you buy an Ikon Pass and could get to Gunnison or Montrose - unfortunately flying likely - you can easily do Crested Butte or Telluride without a car. Aspen too.

You might as well look into monthly car rentals - almost 1.5 weeks = 1 month - same price.

If you do get to Jackson on Ikon - you should go up to Big Sky - Epic Pass as well. Bozeman - 45 min from Big Sky - is one of the great Western ski towns where you could still find relatively cheaper lodging with a fun main street. By some tickets at Bridger Bowl - an awesome co-op area outside of town.

Big Sky is Ikon. Crested Butte and Telluride are Epic. Bridger's highly stratified terrain (flattish lower half, upper steeps, most of it requiring avy gear and some of it hiking) is not a good fit for sbooker and family.
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Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
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Re: Planning for a season on snow.

Postby Sbooker » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:28 pm

jimk wrote:Hello tseeb! Glad you are well and making it through this lousy covid period. I used to pray for snow, now I pray for a vaccine. :-s
Just for fun, I checked on priceline/expedia how much to rent a car in salt lake city for dec 13, 2020 to mar 28, 2021 and it's about $18 or 19 per day (full size/premium car) or $3100-3200 for that length of time. An SUV would be about 1000 more or you could buy a set of chains for $60 and use them for snowy days.


Which car rental site please? I get a higher figure.
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Re: Planning for a season on snow.

Postby Sbooker » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:53 pm

ChrisC wrote:If you buy an Ikon Pass and could get to Gunnison or Montrose - unfortunately flying likely - you can easily do Crested Butte or Telluride without a car. Aspen too.

You might as well look into monthly car rentals - almost 1.5 weeks = 1 month - same price.

If you do get to Jackson on Ikon - you should go up to Big Sky - Epic Pass as well. Bozeman - 45 min from Big Sky - is one of the great Western ski towns where you could still find relatively cheaper lodging with a fun main street. By some tickets at Bridger Bowl - an awesome co-op area outside of town.


We would most certainly be on Ikon to take advantage of the Cottonwood hills. Generally speaking the Epic Pass doesn’t interest me if we are based in SLC.
In the January when the kids would be with us we would definitely check out some different resorts. Steamboat would be a good fit in that time frame and Copper/A Basin and Canyonlands NP may be a good diversion on the way back.
We went to Big Sky this last winter and liked it. The kids weren’t with us so it would be nice to take them there and Yellowstone NP. Jackson is close to Big Sky so that would make a nice loop. It would be either the northern diversion or the one to Colorado I suppose.
I would likely stay put in SLC for the month of February. With five ski areas at my disposal I don’t think monotony will be a factor.
My wife would join me at the end of February and we will at some point in the month of March travel to check out other destinations. Taos ski week is a bucket list item and that would couple well with Aspen. I guess it would all be conditions dependant. Realistically there are heaps of great options that aren’t a huge problem getting to. Mammoth/Squaw/Bachelor would be fun. If snow was not great in the south even Revelstoke/Banff is easily drivable.

I’ve checked out the possibility of Europe and it seems to be less ideal in a lot of ways. It still holds plenty of appeal though. Canada armed with an Epic Pass and Mountain Collective is still worth considering.

The main hurdle to all this is the ability to travel with some kind of insurance. I guess that depends on the valuable work our scientist friends are busy doing right now.
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Re: Planning for a season on snow.

Postby Tony Crocker » Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:29 am

sbooker wrote:The main hurdle to all this is the ability to travel with some kind of insurance.

Sorry to disappoint you, but trip cancellation policies all exclude "Acts of God," which explicitly includes pandemics.

I have just been dealing with this issue this week when we signed up for a 2023 eclipse cruise off NW Australia. Due to remote location the operator requires $1 million in evacuation/emergency medical insurance, which is generally wrapped into a comprehensive trip cancellation policy.

The trip cancellation policies as in this case typically run about 8% of trip cost, which I always refuse because that adds up to big numbers over time when you travel as much as we do. We have our own evacuation/emergency medical insurance for $100K. The operator agreed to charge us only the $45 for the $1M emergency medical and not the $1,812 for trip cancellation. The trip cancellation would cover a traveler or immediate family member who contracted COVID-19 on the trip or just before. It would not cover the real risk, which is that the operator is forced to cancel by government order or that Australia forbids foreigners from entering without quarantine, which is of course where we are now.

There is no way sbooker should consider an extended ski trip to the US in 2021. Or period until the prospect of limited ticket sales with advance reservations required is no longer a threat. We who live here will need to be flexible and figure out which ski areas work best. But if there is rationing, it will be the high profile places on Epic and Ikon that will be most affected.

There may be a scenario where skiing in Canada returns to normal earlier. But even coming from Australia I don't think any form of commitment is necessary more than 6 months in advance. So I'd recommend sitting tight and seeing what the situation looks like a year from now for 2022.

With regard to Canada, we received an unpleasant e-mail from Mustang yesterday. They have decided the borders will likely be closed to foreigners during the upcoming ski season and are thus cancelling all reservations for non-Canadians. Starting September 1 they will have time to sell 2021 seats to Canadian residents. If non-Canadians want to reserve their seats for 2022, that will cost an extra 20%, about $1,000CDN.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
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Re: Planning for a season on snow.

Postby Sbooker » Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:40 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:
sbooker wrote:The main hurdle to all this is the ability to travel with some kind of insurance.

Sorry to disappoint you, but trip cancellation policies all exclude "Acts of God," which explicitly includes pandemics.

I have just been dealing with this issue this week when we signed up for a 2023 eclipse cruise off NW Australia. Due to remote location the operator requires $1 million in evacuation/emergency medical insurance, which is generally wrapped into a comprehensive trip cancellation policy.

The trip cancellation policies as in this case typically run about 8% of trip cost, which I always refuse because that adds up to big numbers over time when you travel as much as we do. We have our own evacuation/emergency medical insurance for $100K. The operator agreed to charge us only the $45 for the $1M emergency medical and not the $1,812 for trip cancellation. The trip cancellation would cover a traveler or immediate family member who contracted COVID-19 on the trip or just before. It would not cover the real risk, which is that the operator is forced to cancel by government order or that Australia forbids foreigners from entering without quarantine, which is of course where we are now.

There is no way sbooker should consider an extended ski trip to the US in 2021. Or period until the prospect of limited ticket sales with advance reservations required is no longer a threat. We who live here will need to be flexible and figure out which ski areas work best. But if there is rationing, it will be the high profile places on Epic and Ikon that will be most affected.

There may be a scenario where skiing in Canada returns to normal earlier. But even coming from Australia I don't think any form of commitment is necessary more than 6 months in advance. So I'd recommend sitting tight and seeing what the situation looks like a year from now for 2022.

With regard to Canada, we received an unpleasant e-mail from Mustang yesterday. They have decided the borders will likely be closed to foreigners during the upcoming ski season and are thus cancelling all reservations for non-Canadians. Starting September 1 they will have time to sell 2021 seats to Canadian residents. If non-Canadians want to reserve their seats for 2022, that will cost an extra 20%, about $1,000CDN.

I expected that would be the situation and that is why I said this winter would be unlikely. I do think things will quite rapidly get back to normal sometime mid next year though. Even without a vaccine politicians will have to make tough decisions to keep economies and businesses alive. 21/22 season will be a goer.
And when I say ‘safely travel’ I am referring to the ability to be covered for medical expenses. Taking a punt on cancellations is something I would weigh up closer to the trip. And I agree we should wait as long as possible to see what the situation is.
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Re: Planning for a season on snow.

Postby Sbooker » Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:43 pm

I've not checked this out fully but it's a start as far as insurance is concerned.
https://www.sevencorners.com/#start

While you can choose a specific trip period, the premium is actually CHEAPER if you choose the multi trip, 365 day insurance. (the break even seems to be around 55 days)
It covers $100,000 USD for:
COVID-19 Medical Treatment — The plan covers medically necessary treatment for:
COVID-19 (the disease);
SARS-Cov-2 (the virus); and
Any mutation or variation of SARS-CoV-2.
You MUST also choose the duration of EACH trip, which can be up to 30, 45 or 60 days. Deductable can be $0, $250 or $500. It covers up to $1,000,000 for other regular medical expenses.

It also covers normal travel costs, baggage, delay, etc. (Although personal liability is only $25,000)
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Re: Planning for a season on snow.

Postby Tony Crocker » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:16 am

Insurers seem willing to offer trip cancellation coverage of you the traveler contracting COVID-19. They will not cover closed borders, quarantines or trip cancellation by government order.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
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Location: Glendale, California

Re: Planning for a season on snow.

Postby Sbooker » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:46 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:Insurers seem willing to offer trip cancellation coverage of you the traveler contracting COVID-19. They will not cover closed borders, quarantines or trip cancellation by government order.


I am sure there are other majors concerns with regard Covid while travelling but to my mind the biggest risk is contracting Covid and having to be admitted to hospital (a stay in ICU perhaps) at a cost of what could be a few hundred grand for all I know. I could stomach the risk of booking a trip and the ski resort shutting for example. I could put that down to bad luck. Medical issues are another story.
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