Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Topics of a general nature regarding snowsports, which don't easily fit into one of our other Liftlines categories. This is also the place to post Letters to the Editor.

Moderator: Tony Crocker

Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby ChrisC » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:18 am

What are the insurance / refund policies for the Epic & Ikon passes? What counts as closure?

Effectively the following resorts are closed:

California till New Years
VT
All of Canada
All of Europe (Zermatt, Chamonix, Verbier, 3 Vallees, etc)
All of Asia (Japan)
All of Australia and NZ

I would estimate more than 50-60% of the terrain under the passes is unavailable to the majority of pass holders.


Covid numbers should continue to spike through NYers....with max cases/deaths in January-February - causing perhaps more restrictions. Look at some of CDC estimates for January.
User avatar
ChrisC
 
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:00 am
Location: San Francisco Photo: La Grave, France

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby tseeb » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:02 am

Ski areas in CA are not closed and nobody is enforcing stay-at-home orders. https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/12/10/ ... -about-it/ says the following:

"Since the announcement last month of a curfew in most of California, more than 20 county sheriffs have issued public statements on enforcement of coronavirus restrictions.

Almost all of them have stated they will not be enforcing the rules — some in blandly official language, and others more contentiously.
"

If you want to do more than daytrip, you would have to stay privately or go to NV. I have not been following all the rules and news in VT, but I have heard they are doing more (or at least some?) enforcement.

I did not renew my Ikon, but my understanding is that you have until April to rollover $ spent on an unused pass towards 21-22 pass that would likely be a little more expensive than this year's. That did not work well for me as group I hoped to join in late-Feb was going to Aspen which meant buying a full pass, then they would be going to UT the following year which does not require full pass so I could have ended up with more rollover $ than I'd need to buy a next year's base pass.

Epic is more complicated. There is a lot of discussion on CA restrictions at https://www.skitalk.com/threads/underst ... ons.21634/ where I posted the following:

You have to go deep into Epic Coverage at Epic Season Pass (epicpass.com), but they do allow you to apply for a refund in May due to local stay-at-home order (see below). Refund will be reduced for each day your pass has been used and goes away if you use 7 days.

Does Santa Clara County shutdown from 10 PM on 12/6 to 1/4 count as thirty consecutive or is it 29.1 since it only covered 2 hours on 12/6? It does cover more than seven days during the "Core Season" which starts today.

I had reservations for 12/2 and 12/3 at Heavenly and 12/4 (opening day) at Kirkwood last week, but canceled. My wife had strong objections to me going, even though I think going solo to family cabin that had not been used since Oct. and trying to avoid going to grocery stores while there is not much more dangerous than going to grocery store or Home Depot.

Section F

Personal Event REFUNDS

Refund Eligibility. You may be eligible for a “Personal Event Refund” if you are prevented from using your Pass during the Core Season due to a “Qualifying Personal Event”.

A Qualifying Personal Event is one or more of the following:
Stay-at Home Order. You are unable to use your Pass during the Core Season because the municipality, county, state, province, or country in which your Permanent Residence is located is subject to a “quarantine,” “stay-at-home,” “shelter-in-place” or other comparable mandatory governmental order lasting thirty (30) or more consecutive days, at least seven (7) days of which are during the Core Season. Your “Permanent Residence” refers to your fixed, permanent and principal home for legal and tax purposes.


The update I have to this is story on today's front page of San Jose Mercury News https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/12/10/ ... long-ride/ says our stay-at-home order will likely be extended past 1/4, which would put it past the 30 days required to get 100% refund, or partial refund for pass with limited use. I'm considering going next week where I have reservations at Kirkwood Wed and Fri and Heavenly on Thu, but would probably move schedule up a day to be home early Fri evening as my wife and I have an online event that we may attend from different locations. And I have to wonder if using a pass during a stay-at-home would invalidate the refund. I don't have much into these passes as my Senior Tahoe Value Pass was $359 after $90 credit for shortened last season and my wife's was $309. Her pass was more expensive, but I paid less for it since she got bigger credit as she only used it 1/1-1/3/2020.
User avatar
tseeb
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:16 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby ChrisC » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:15 am

This is all going to be a bit messy this season:

Keeping most of Europe closed for Christmas/NYears - except Switzerland.

Vail is forced to cancel some guest reservations and black out employee skiing in Colorado this weekend due to limited snow and terrain.
https://www.vaildaily.com/news/employee-passes-restricted-at-vail-this-weekend-reservations-full-uphill-access-closed/

Better snow soon...
User avatar
ChrisC
 
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:00 am
Location: San Francisco Photo: La Grave, France

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby Tony Crocker » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:11 am

ChrisC wrote:What are the insurance / refund policies for the Epic & Ikon passes? What counts as closure?

Effectively the following resorts are closed:

California till New Years No, only hotels/dine-in restaurants
VT Not closed but severely quarantined to non-residents
All of Canada Maybe for foreigners, but not to Canadians
All of Europe (Zermatt, Chamonix, Verbier, 3 Vallees, etc) France, Germany, Italy closed, Switzerland and Austria open to their own citizens like Canada
All of Asia (Japan) SnowJapan shows open, don't know quarantine rules
All of Australia and NZ season over a long time ago

I would estimate more than 50-60% of the terrain under the passes is unavailable to the majority of pass holders.


Covid numbers should continue to spike through NYers....with max cases/deaths in January-February - causing perhaps more restrictions. Look at some of CDC estimates for January.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 10917
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby sierra_cement » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:44 pm

ChrisC wrote:What are the insurance / refund policies for the Epic & Ikon passes? What counts as closure?



Covid numbers should continue to spike through NYers....with max cases/deaths in January-February - causing perhaps more restrictions. Look at some of CDC estimates for January.


I'm regretting my Tahoe Local pass purchase this season. I had a reservation at Kirkwood for Xmas that I canceled a month ago. I have a one-week reservation for Heavenly in Feb and a week at Kirkwood in March. If I get to go I will get my money's worth out of the pass (around 13 to 15 days) but I am getting a feeling I won't be able to do that and I will have to fight Vail for the credit towards next season. The fine print rarely acts in favor of the consumer.
sierra_cement
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:01 pm
Location: San Jose

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby Tony Crocker » Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:29 pm

Ikon rules are straightfoward. Refunds are prorata based upn percentage of days closed between something like Dec. 10 - Apr. 10. You can choose based upon all resorts collectively or one resort user specified in October. We specified Mammoth, but the criterion is ski resort closed, not hotel closure or home travel restrictions.

About half of my Mammoth skiing is historically after April 1, so I'm cautiously optimistic that I will pay for my Ikon by the end of the season.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 10917
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby tseeb » Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:50 pm

Tony, Since you are posting does that mean you made it through EZE?

At https://www.ikonpass.com/en/adventure-assurance there is no refund for Ikon, only a credit towards next year's pass.

Epic gives a refund if your home city, county or state is under stay-at-home order for 30 days. If you use your pass, the refund is reduced. It goes to 0 if you use 7 days. See https://www.epicpass.com/info/epic-coverage.aspx for a lot of details.
User avatar
tseeb
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:16 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby sierra_cement » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:15 pm

tseeb wrote:Epic gives a refund if your home city, county or state is under stay-at-home order for 30 days. If you use your pass, the refund is reduced. It goes to 0 if you use 7 days. See https://www.epicpass.com/info/epic-coverage.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for a lot of details.


Great info. If things don't improve and they don't offer group lessons in Feb, I will be going that route. I see your post above where the stay at home orders for CA are < 30 days.
sierra_cement
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:01 pm
Location: San Jose

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby tseeb » Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:46 am

My county's stay at home order was lifted on 1/25, but "The County’s Mandatory Directive on Travel, which requires most people who travel into the county from more than 150 miles away to quarantine for 10 days upon their arrival, is still in effect" although quarantine is not enforced in any way. Somebody at SkiTalk.com emailed the County and had distance interpreted as 150 air miles from the NE and SE corners of the County which covers all of the ski areas in the Sierra and the route from Tahoe to Mammoth. From https://www.sccgov.org/sites/covid19/Pa ... -tier.aspx and https://www.skitalk.com/threads/underst ... ost-546813

So we had a stay-at-home order from 12/6 to 1/25 which meets Vail's Qualifying Personal Event of "Stay-at Home Order.
You are unable to use your Pass during the Core Season because the municipality, county, state, province, or country in which your Permanent Residence is located is subject to a “quarantine,” “stay-at-home,” “shelter-in-place” or other comparable mandatory governmental order lasting thirty (30) or more consecutive days, at least seven (7) days of which are during the Core Season."

But https://www.epicpass.com/info/epic-coverage.aspx says (with my bolding)

"Q: If I have a qualifying personal event, how do I request a refund?

A: We hope you get the most out of your pass purchase this season, but in the unfortunate event that a qualifying personal event occurs in your life, we have a dedicated team set up to assist you. The process to request a refund is:

The preferred method for submitting a refund request by visiting https://acmclaims.com/vail-resorts. You can also submit a refund request by calling 1-877-895-1297 or by emailing a representative at NewLosses@ACMClaims.com.

The refund request will be validated and the refund calculation will be determined. Please refer to the “How are Refunds Determined?” section for additional details.

A refund will be processed and sent to you.


You must submit your refund request within 30 days of the occurrence of your qualifying personal event to be eligible for a refund.

The problem with requesting a refund within 30 days, besides immediately invalidating your pass for further use, is how do you count within 30 days? If it's within 30 days of when stay-at-home was lifted, you have less than 2 weeks to claim refund, and invalidate your pass. But if it's within 30 days of when stay-at-home lasted more than 30 during peak season, you are too late and better make use of your pass.

It's not a problem for me as I have 8 days on my pass and plan to get 4 more next week, and pro-rated refund goes away at 7 days. But my wife is a 0 days and not planning to go next week, so she needs to get some use before currently scheduled 4/4 season closures.
User avatar
tseeb
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:16 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby Tony Crocker » Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:29 pm

Your wife has missed the chance for a refund because the hotel ban at Tahoe was lifted Jan. 12 and we are now 30 days past that?

I do not understand this statement at all.
tseeb wrote:But if it's within 30 days of when stay-at-home lasted more than 30 during peak season, you are too late and better make use of your pass.

Our Ikons are already paid for with 4 days at Big Bear and 3 in LCC/BCC. We still have Iron Blosam Week ahead plus spring at Mammoth and/or Bachelor.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 10917
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby tseeb » Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:10 pm

The Epic Pass refund is based on where you live (or not being able to reserve peak season days or ski area closure due to COVIDF, etc.). Our County was under stay-at-home order from 12/6 through 1/24 - more than 30 days which qualifies for refund. But not sure if you had to apply within 30 days of when stay-at-home lasted for 30 days or when it ended. For passholders like my wife or sierra_cement who have not used their Epic passes, they should use them as I've heard refunds are hard to get and people in my County may no longer qualify for one.
Last edited by tseeb on Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
tseeb
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:16 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby Tony Crocker » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:46 pm

It seems to me that a claim must be filed within 30 days after Jan. 24. It makes no sense that the clock would start ticking while the lockdown was still in effect. But I'd say it's worth a phone call to clarify that point before filing the claim.
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 10917
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby tseeb » Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:50 am

Call Vail? Are you trying to be funny? Any answer received via phone would not be enforceable. And contacting Vail by phone is a common complaint. I've found I can get through if I call at 8:58 MST. Then I'm through the phone tree at 9 AM when they answer. 8:59 is too late to get through. Following is from https://www.epicpass.com/info/epic-coverage.aspx

4. How to Request for a Personal Event Refund.

a. Time Limitations. You must submit your request for a Personal Event Refund within thirty (30) days of when the Qualifying Personal Event arises. Untimely submissions may be rejected.

b. Form of Request. You must submit any request for a Personal Event Refund either by calling 1-877-895-1297, or by emailing a representative at NewLosses@ACMClaims.com. When submitting your request by phone or email, you must provide your name, the type of Pass you purchased, your Pass identification number, along with a description of the Qualifying Personal Event and reasonable proof to verify the occurrence of the Qualifying Personal Event. Improper submissions may be rejected.

c. Proof Requirements. Vail Resorts reserves the right to require you to submit proof to verify and establish the Qualifying Personal Event that is the basis for which you request a refund. This proof may include Physician verifications, videos, photos, travel documents, or other material we deem necessary to evaluate your refund request. You have an obligation to cooperate with us in our efforts to verify your Qualifying Personal Event, and we reserve the right to deny your refund request if you fail to do so. If you are unable to provide acceptable proof of a Qualifying Personal Event (as determined in our sole and absolute discretion) we reserve the right to deny your refund request.

5. No Access After Refund. If you receive any Personal Event Refund, the Pass for which you received the refund will cease to be valid and you will no longer be able to use the Pass to access any resorts for the remainder of the 2020/2021 season.


I was incorrect went I said pass is immediately invalidated when you ask for a refund. From reading 5. above, "pass will cease to be valid" if you receive refund, but I would not trust them to do it in the correct order. For my wife, we could ask for refund and if it is granted, she could ski on Buddy tickets from my pass which cost $81 at Kirkwood and $104 at Heavenly, but that means no longer being direct to lift. The break-even would be about 4 days (assuming 2 days at each), but refunding pass would also rollover the $220 discount my wife got from only using 2019-20 pass 3 days before they closed early.
User avatar
tseeb
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:16 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby Tony Crocker » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:36 pm

Vail does not offer deferral to 2021-22 if you don't use your pass at all?
http://bestsnow.net
Ski Records
Season length: 21 months, Nov. 29, 2010 - July 2, 2012
Days in one year: 80 from Nov. 29, 2010 - Nov. 17, 2011
Season vertical: 1,610K in 2016-17
Season powder: 291K in 2011-12
User avatar
Tony Crocker
 
Posts: 10917
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am
Location: Avatar: Charlotte Bay, Antarctica 2011
Location: Glendale, California

Re: Epic & Ikon Insurance: CA/VT closed

Postby tseeb » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:13 am

I think the only rollover is the Credit everyone with 2019-2020 Epic Pass received for early closure based on days used can be rolled over towards 2021-22 if pass is refunded due a 2020-21 Personal Event (local stay-at-home for 30 days, job loss, personal injury or family member illness or injury, etc). For anyone who used pass over 6 days last year, the credit was 20%.

3. Credit Rollover. If you used your 2019/2020 Credit towards the purchase of a 2020/2021 Season Pass and you are eligible for a Personal Event Refund, you may be eligible to apply all or a portion of the 2019/2020 Credit towards the purchase of an equal or greater value pass for the 2021/2022 ski and ride season (the “Personal Event Credit Rollover”). The amount of your Personal Event Credit Rollover will equal your Personal Event Refund Percentage multiplied by the amount of your 2019/2020 Credit actually applied to your 2020/2021 Season Pass. You can only redeem your Credit Rollover towards the purchase of a single Season Pass for the 2021/2022 season. You cannot redeem any portion of your Credit Rollover for cash. If the Season Pass you purchase for the 2021/2022 season costs less than your Credit Rollover, the remaining portion of the Credit Rollover will be forfeited. Your Credit Rollover is non-transferrable. You must use your Credit Rollover on or before September 6, 2021 or it will expire and be forfeited.
User avatar
tseeb
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:16 pm
Location: Northern California

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


All content herein copyright © 1999-2017 First Tracks!! Online Media

Forums Terms & Conditions of Use