Serious Vert

Topics of a general nature regarding snowsports, which don't easily fit into one of our other Liftlines categories. This is also the place to post Letters to the Editor.

Re: Serious Vert

Postby coldsmoke » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:34 am

Tony Crocker wrote:but Six Shooter is a typical blue cruiser.


True, but welcome at that point :-D
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby longshanks » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:41 pm

wolfer wrote:
longshanks wrote:And then we should not forget Devils Club, Snow Rodeo and Pitch Black at Revelstoke, running from the top of the Stoke Chair to the Day Lodge...4700' is pretty [censored] long although I'm not sure of the actual pitch or how sustained it is...but regardless, this is some serious terrain man

-longest 4700' I have ever skied


Word...
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby icelanticskier » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:57 pm

sugarloaf. back here it's as serious as any vert of any lift served hill i've been on.

from the summit, it's a pretty steep/sustained 2200 vert with another flatter continuous 600 vert to the bottom. 200 of that is mainly condo access, but is all down and lift served.

for me, the loaf skis big.

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Re: Serious Vert

Postby soulskier » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:06 pm

Geoff wrote:
rsmith wrote:To me there's a notable distinction between certain mountains and how they ski, when it comes to 'vertical'. Sustained pitches of a certain length make some mountains unique, ~2000' at 25+ degrees being a reasonable mark (regardless of if you can ski the full length on a single lift ride). Snowbird, Jackson Hole, Squaw (KT-22) and Snowbasin fit this pattern. In a single run you have a relatively large commitment and a sense of exploration you don't get otherwise. Places with steep, but short runs like Kirkwood or Solitude have interesting terrain, but you miss out on the exhausting yet fulfilling lines from the Snowbird Tram or the long, connected GS arcs you can make at Snowbasin. Then there's a whole other class of mountain such as Heavenly, the Park City resorts, and the majority of Colorado which have large actual verticals but relatively little that is sustained beyond ~1000' or so. Again, there is interesting terrain, but the runs are shorter, often requiring long run-outs or disjointed jaunts through the flats. I wouldn't denigrate a resort due to any of these factors - you just have to know what each mountain offers and then take advantage of it...


One of the reasons I picked 2,000 feet and 25 degrees was to make a point. KT-22 is only 1800 feet of vertical and doesn't qualify.


But remember you can ski 6 laps on KT per hour when the conditions and lift lines warrant. That's over 10 thousand per hour, alomst all off piste. That's some serious vert!

IMO, a 25 degree slope and serious slope should never be mentioned in the same thread.
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby Tony Crocker » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:53 pm

Soulskier is also operating from the perspective of Marte, whose liftline is 30 degrees for 2,700 vertical. There's a lot of serious vertical in anybody's book at Las Lenas.
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby soulskier » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:46 pm

Tony Crocker wrote:Soulskier is also operating from the perspective of Marte, whose liftline is 30 degrees for 2,700 vertical. There's a lot of serious vertical in anybody's book at Las Lenas.


Yah, but we don't ski under Marte, that's for gapers. Here's majestic Sans Nom, 40+ degrees for 2,600' , then another 800' of mellow Geoff type terrain to the valley floor!

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Re: Serious Vert

Postby rfarren » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:30 am

soulskier wrote:
Tony Crocker wrote:Soulskier is also operating from the perspective of Marte, whose liftline is 30 degrees for 2,700 vertical. There's a lot of serious vertical in anybody's book at Las Lenas.


Yah, but we don't ski under Marte, that's for gapers. Here's majestic Sans Nom, 40+ degrees for 2,600' , then another 800' of mellow Geoff type terrain to the valley floor!

Image

Now that's serious vert. Hey,.... Soulskier and I agree!!!
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby Geoff » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:19 pm

soulskier wrote:Yah, but we don't ski under Marte, that's for gapers. Here's majestic Sans Nom, 40+ degrees for 2,600' , then another 800' of mellow Geoff type terrain to the valley floor!


Ad hominem attacks. Cool! That's always the last refuge of those who are incapable of defending their position.
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby Patrick » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:23 pm

Geoff wrote:That's always the last refuge of those who are incapable of defending their position.

I think that post is exactly on topic. That is serious vert!!!

Soul, Rob and Tony agree, the World must be coming to an end?
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby Marc_C » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:29 pm

Patrick wrote:
Geoff wrote:That's always the last refuge of those who are incapable of defending their position.

I think that post is exactly on topic. That is serious vert!!!

I don't think Geoff disagrees, but his ire at the completely unnecessary crack about "...mellow Geoff-type terrain..." is understandable.
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby soulskier » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:48 pm

Marc_C wrote:
Patrick wrote:
Geoff wrote:That's always the last refuge of those who are incapable of defending their position.

I think that post is exactly on topic. That is serious vert!!!

I don't think Geoff disagrees, but his ire at the completely unnecessary crack about "...mellow Geoff-type terrain..." is understandable.


Homie mentioned a 25 degree slope in a serious vert thread, that warrants a crack. 25 degrees isn't even steep enough to slide, which is where a slope then becomes "serious".
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby Marc_C » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:20 am

soulskier wrote:Homie mentioned a 25 degree slope in a serious vert thread, that warrants a crack. 25 degrees isn't even steep enough to slide, which is where a slope then becomes "serious".

That's merely one myopic definition of serious. One of the reasons I intentionally left it vague when I started the thread. Serious can also mean consistent, unchanging pitch, among other things. It can also mean extraordinarily technical the entire way and have nothing to do with steepness. We can show you trails in New England that will beat you up and keep you on your toes for the entire 2K vert far more than any western 45+ degree chute or wide open bowl, and they're barely 25 degrees. Your ad hominem crack and subsequent comment quoted above reveals your particular bias and a basic lack of understanding other things that skiing might encompass.

There's a trail at Wildcat that is 3 miles long and runs a full 2K vert, yet is a green circle and as such doesn't exceed 20 degrees, if that. Yet it certainly constitutes "serious" vert for skiers of that ability. One might even say that Polecat is one of the most soulful trails in all of New England.

Sorry for calling out your elitist view of the world. Again.
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby rfarren » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:12 am

Marc_C wrote:
soulskier wrote:Homie mentioned a 25 degree slope in a serious vert thread, that warrants a crack. 25 degrees isn't even steep enough to slide, which is where a slope then becomes "serious".

That's merely one myopic definition of serious. One of the reasons I intentionally left it vague when I started the thread. Serious can also mean consistent, unchanging pitch, among other things. It can also mean extraordinarily technical the entire way and have nothing to do with steepness. We can show you trails in New England that will beat you up and keep you on your toes for the entire 2K vert far more than any western 45+ degree chute or wide open bowl, and they're barely 25 degrees. Your ad hominem crack and subsequent comment quoted above reveals your particular bias and a basic lack of understanding other things that skiing might encompass.

There's a trail at Wildcat that is 3 miles long and runs a full 2K vert, yet is a green circle and as such doesn't exceed 20 degrees, if that. Yet it certainly constitutes "serious" vert for skiers of that ability. One might even say that Polecat is one of the most soulful trails in all of New England.

Sorry for calling out your elitist view of the world. Again.


In defense of soulskier, you started this thread with:
Marc_C wrote:Sooo, what does the phrase mean to you? What do you feel constitutes "serious vert"? Which areas have it? Which don't?

Soulskier is simply stating what it means to him. What I think of as serious terrain or vert is different than my wife, or even others on this thread. Should he not express that? Granted, he expressed it with a little snide remark towards Geoff, but what would be the internet without comments like that, it's nothing we all haven't done on this forum before.
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby flyover » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:16 am

Marc_C wrote:It can also mean extraordinarily technical the entire way and have nothing to do with steepness. We can show you trails in New England that will beat you up and keep you on your toes for the entire 2K vert far more than any western 45+ degree chute or wide open bowl, and they're barely 25 degrees.


Word.

For me actual vert is mostly irrelevant. It is all about how many times I need to stop to catch my breath, pick a line, or calculate the odds (perform a little risk assessment), and about how much energy I feel like I have expended by the time I get to the bottom. Here's an East/West comparison using greatest-hits-type runs: MRG's Paradise can't be more than 900 Vert (and is probably considerably less), but I know I pause more often, and end up feeling more drained skiing Paradise than I do skiing Highboy.
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Re: Serious Vert

Postby Marc_C » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:58 am

rfarren wrote:In defense of soulskier, you started this thread with:
Marc_C wrote:Sooo, what does the phrase mean to you? What do you feel constitutes "serious vert"? Which areas have it? Which don't?

Soulskier is simply stating what it means to him. What I think of as serious terrain or vert is different than my wife, or even others on this thread. Should he not express that? Granted, he expressed it with a little snide remark towards Geoff, but what would be the internet without comments like that, it's nothing we all haven't done on this forum before.

Exactly my point, and soulskier can certainly define "serious vert" however he pleases. But slagging someone twice because they used example terrain that doesn't fit his definition, prior to stating his definition, sorta crosses that line into elitism, where he is applying his personal values to someone else - something that you and others have mentioned. A trait that may not be useful when attempting to get others to support your cause.

As far as snide remarks, we've all hurled and received our share of daggers and hand grenades, but no one should ever be surprised at being called on it. :-P
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