Turmoil at Sunshine Village

I must say, for such an opinionated group, no one response is surprising.

This is big news. Does anyone know if there has ever been a documented case of ski area employees protesting against their employer?
 
soulskier":25fn0bbx said:
I must say, for such an opinionated group, no one response is surprising.

This is big news. Does anyone know if there has ever been a documented case of ski area employees protesting against their employer?

I wouldn't know, but I didn't think it was a big deal that they were protesting, or that a few of them were fired. Both side's reactions seemed reasonable.
 
Hard to have an informed opinion with so little information to go on (as if that's ever stopped me before!).

We have no idea of the nature of the original confrontation. Where was this group? What was said? Was there a member of the owner's family there? Were the original 5 fired due solely to that incident? If so, that would seem to be weak sauce on the part of Mr. Scurfield, but it's hard to comment with such a small window on the facts of the story.
 
soulskier":1apnrz7y said:
This is big news. Does anyone know if there has ever been a documented case of ski area employees protesting against their employer?

Moderately big news, perhaps. Ski patrollers are highly trained in several specialized fields and thus much tougher than average to replace (vs say a lifty). It could directly effect operations over an extended period.

As to job actions, there have not been a ton of them, but there have been several in the past and many of the ones I have heard about involved patrollers (at The Canyons a few years ago for example). However I don't recall large numbers of patrollers being fired previously, though I could be wrong since I'm going off memory, not specific facts.
 
EMSC":1rvkhth0 said:
Ski patrollers are highly trained in several specialized fields and thus much tougher than average to replace (vs say a lifty). It could directly effect operations over an extended period.
That's what I was thinking.

Sunshine seemed to be such a laid-back place when I was there three years ago, but who knows what goes on in the patrol shack or in the exec boardroom.
 
EMSC":3ubb22bw said:
Moderately big news, perhaps. Ski patrollers are highly trained in several specialized fields and thus much tougher than average to replace (vs say a lifty). It could directly effect operations over an extended period.

As to job actions, there have not been a ton of them, but there have been several in the past and many of the ones I have heard about involved patrollers (at The Canyons a few years ago for example). However I don't recall large numbers of patrollers being fired previously, though I could be wrong since I'm going off memory, not specific facts.

Keep in mind this was the most senior staff, with something like 70 plus years between them.
 
After reading up a bit more on this topic, it's hard not to come away with a negative view on Sunshine. The timeline that has been resported/rumored seems to go like this:

1) Owner's kid Taylor Scurfield get caught going into an avi closure and is made to hike back up and out.

2) Shortly thereafter, the patrollers involved, and some other long-tenured employees, get canned.

3) Two other patrollers take it upon themselves to speak to the media about the situation, and are shortly canned.

4) The "sick out" happens, and still more are fired.

I might have some of the pieces wrong, but it started with the incident with the owner's son. Apparently, if Interwebz rumors are to be believed, he is a d-bag of epic proportions and is being taught all the wrong lessons by his Dad. It's all quite surprising in light of the fact that the owner's father was killed in an avalance with a heli-ski op a while back. When his family sued, he was found to be 100% liable for his own death based on the the outcomes of the original case and an appeal. You would think the family would know better than to play fast and loose with the rules.
 
Yea, if I owned a ski resort, the last group of people I would want to piss off is the ski patrol. My belief is that, at most ski areas, the ski patrol are a very tight group of people who perform a a highly necessary function to keep the ski area running successfully. I'm also guessing that it is not that easy to replace a group of patrollers on short notice. In fact, I think most ski areas have a hard time finding qualified individuals who want to patrol.
 
berkshireskier":3vu5v4tz said:
Yea, if I owned a ski resort, the last group of people I would want to piss off is the ski patrol. My belief is that, at most ski areas, the ski patrol are a very tight group of people who perform a a highly necessary function to keep the ski area running successfully. I'm also guessing that it is not that easy to replace a group of patrollers on short notice. In fact, I think most ski areas have a hard time finding qualified individuals who want to patrol.

I couldn't agree more.

BTW, if you haven't check the Sunshine Village Facebook page, and especially the "Just others" tab of the Wall, it is a case study in itself.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sunshine- ... 167?ref=ts
 
They started a Facebook support page that is quickly becoming viral. Just hit the refresh button on your browser and watch the fan count grow.

http://www.facebook.com/SupportSkiPatrol

I predict this will be a big story for a long time to come. Like others have eluded to, it would be one thing if they fired the burger flipper. But it was the most senior staff of ski patrol, during the middle of winter, with a sketchy snowpack.
 
soulskier":1mxes534 said:
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/News/2011/2/1/Lawsuit-Contends-that-Sunshine-Village-Owners-Son-Prompted-Ski-Patrol-Firings/
Note to Admin - towards the end of the story, you wrote that "all but Chevalier were questioned about ....". Remember there were two Chevaliers - the older was the mtn risk mgr while his nephew was the lift ops mgr. From what I've read elsewhere, it was the younger one who wasn't questioned about this incident, and it seems like his firing was more of a collateral damager situation b/c of his relations.
 
Good catch, Mike - thanks.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
mobile.png
 
soulskier":3oktwk6i said:
They started a Facebook support page that is quickly becoming viral. Just hit the refresh button on your browser and watch the fan count grow.

http://www.facebook.com/SupportSkiPatrol

I predict this will be a big story for a long time to come. Like others have eluded to, it would be one thing if they fired the burger flipper. But it was the most senior staff of ski patrol, during the middle of winter, with a sketchy snowpack.

Soulskier, I guess I am curious as to why you are so extremely interested in this? I would think it has little to do with your MRA work or etc... and more of a distraction than real substance as it relates to attempting a 'start-up' or 'buy-in'. Is MRA's resort of the future in Alberta and you want to pick up some highly experienced employees quick? Or are you just a sucker for "as the ski turns" stories? :popcorn:

Either way, sounds like a bit of a mess for Sunshine in the short term. I wonder what turnover might look like over next summer too.
 
EMSC":1d3yiikt said:
soulskier":1d3yiikt said:
They started a Facebook support page that is quickly becoming viral. Just hit the refresh button on your browser and watch the fan count grow.

http://www.facebook.com/SupportSkiPatrol

I predict this will be a big story for a long time to come. Like others have eluded to, it would be one thing if they fired the burger flipper. But it was the most senior staff of ski patrol, during the middle of winter, with a sketchy snowpack.

Soulskier, I guess I am curious as to why you are so extremely interested in this? I would think it has little to do with your MRA work or etc... and more of a distraction than real substance as it relates to attempting a 'start-up' or 'buy-in'. Is MRA's resort of the future in Alberta and you want to pick up some highly experienced employees quick? Or are you just a sucker for "as the ski turns" stories? :popcorn:

Either way, sounds like a bit of a mess for Sunshine in the short term. I wonder what turnover might look like over next summer too.

I just wrote a post on our blog that might help to shed some light.

http://mrablog.com/2011/02/01/thoughts- ... e-forward/
 
EMSC":3h7m8c5j said:
soulskier":3h7m8c5j said:
They started a Facebook support page that is quickly becoming viral. Just hit the refresh button on your browser and watch the fan count grow.

http://www.facebook.com/SupportSkiPatrol

I predict this will be a big story for a long time to come. Like others have eluded to, it would be one thing if they fired the burger flipper. But it was the most senior staff of ski patrol, during the middle of winter, with a sketchy snowpack.

Soulskier, I guess I am curious as to why you are so extremely interested in this? I would think it has little to do with your MRA work or etc... and more of a distraction than real substance as it relates to attempting a 'start-up' or 'buy-in'. Is MRA's resort of the future in Alberta and you want to pick up some highly experienced employees quick? Or are you just a sucker for "as the ski turns" stories? :popcorn:

Either way, sounds like a bit of a mess for Sunshine in the short term. I wonder what turnover might look like over next summer too.
Hard to blame soulskier for being interested. This is a pretty fascinating story and one that, from all outward indications, likely epitomizes the essence of what the MRA thinks is wrong with the industry. Out of touch owner with an aggro, entitled son against 20-25 year pros who seemed to just be doing their job.
 
Mike Bernstein":142wukhe said:
This is a pretty fascinating story and one that, from all outward indications, likely epitomizes the essence of what the MRA thinks is wrong with the industry. Out of touch owner with an aggro, entitled son against 20-25 year pros who seemed to just be doing their job.

MRA Blog post":142wukhe said:
I gave them my notice and got a night job. I am confident many others who have worked for ski corporations have stories of their own.

From those early days being mistreated

Unrelated to this case but, Soulskier, I think it's one thing to be employee friendly and another to give free passes to every missed shift and screw up that your employees make... I'd think you'd be getting walked over by your employees pretty quick with awful customer service to boot if that's your view of how to run an effective business. Not to say I am for some sort of draconian red tape type employee rules either; but really, you missed your shift from your own screw up as a 20 something and expected a total free pass by your manager? That he wanted to have short sit down chat in his office to make sure the same thing wouldn't happen again next shift is being 'mistreated'? I can't imagine how you'd run your MRA resort if none of your employees is actually accountable for anything. The first confrontations with employees in your career are always the hardest, but teach immeasurable lessons on being proactive, fair and..., yes holding people accountable for the jobs that you are paying them for.

I have no specific knowledge of the the owners of Sunshine - intewebz rumors have them as a very wealthy family who have owned it for a long time. Of which the wealthy were the majority of owners of ski resorts back in the early days of skiing. Which, in some sense, would make the current Sunshine case actually very much like the 'early days' of skiing you want to bring back... Perhaps a bit of devils advocate thrown in that last statement for effect, but it is a valid observation about many of the first resorts to ever exist in North America. Many, if not most, founded by extremely wealthy individuals and families. A few started by Dave McCoy types. 'Corporate' resorts you rail against to me would be more like Intrawest, Boyne, Vail, RCR, Powd'r etc... with many resorts in the same corporation, not Sunshine (I don't think that family owns any more places, but could be wrong).

Back to this specific case, with the resort badly managing it's PR, one is left with a single version of the truth that, if true, does paint a poor picture of someone in management/ownership. The resort still has several weeks before they have to respond with their side of the story. I wonder when ownership will attempt some kind of meaningful PR in their own defense though (assuming they have a defensible position).
 
EMSC":1iy0fmkj said:
I have no specific knowledge of the the owners of Sunshine - intewebz rumors have them as a very wealthy family who have owned it for a long time.
(...)
Back to this specific case, with the resort badly managing it's PR, one is left with a single version of the truth that, if true, does paint a poor picture of someone in management/ownership. The resort still has several weeks before they have to respond with their side of the story. I wonder when ownership will attempt some kind of meaningful PR in their own defense though (assuming they have a defensible position).

Not that I want to paint everyone one as being the same, but it would seem a relationship between who do you know and who you are related too. Instead of facing to the personal responsibility that what the son did was stupid, they decided to fire 4 senior staff members that carry every important tasks in the middle of a ski season is misguided.

1) If these people would have been 'nobodies' like us, we would have had our asses nailed to the wall. If we would have been in trouble, we would have paid an important fine.

2) If something happened to the illegal party, the ski patrol/resort would have been blamed. Definitely a lose-lose situation for the head of the patrol.

Great way to learn about Life's Lessons when you are spoiled. His family sued Cariboo, but lost in court.

Scurfield v. Cariboo Helicopter Skiing Ltd. (1993, 74 B.C.L.R. 225), the balance of blame swung the other way. Scurfield, a participant on a back-country ski trip, was killed while crossing an avalanche slope. At trial, the Court found Scurfield 75 percent at fault for the accident and the defendants (Cariboo and the guide) 25 percent at fault. Scurfield had been negligent on several fronts, including failing to wait for the skier ahead to finish crossing, failing to wait for the guide's signal to cross, and failing to "ski alert" -- all of which he had been instructed to do. The guide was found to be negligent for taking the skiers to that particular slope, although on appeal, this finding was overturned.
http://www.sportlaw.ca/articles/liabili ... igence.php

Another story getting more play right now is the one involving the son of one of the founder of Intrawest. I know I'm making generalization, but it doesn't look good right now for two son's of millionaires involved in the ski industry.

An employee of Outdoor Adventures Whistler says he killed at least 70 dogs over two days. The huskies, weighing about 40 to 50 pounds, were used for dog sled tours during the 2010 Winter Olympics, but were uneconomic to keep after the Games were over and the tourists went home.

In response to concerns over the killings, Tourism Whistler on Monday suspended reservations for dog sledding at Outdoor Adventures Whistler, which is owned by Joey Houssian, son of the founder of Intrawest Corp., Joe Houssian.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le1888742/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le1890344/
 
Back
Top