Zermatt, Switz., Feb. 9, 2014

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
Our first day after 24 hours travel time from home and LAX via JFK and CDG to Geneva to 3+hr bus transfer to Zermatt. This is the result of booking 3 weeks ahead having to arrive at a specific time to meet the transfer. Liz and I picked up 2 slots from people who bailed out of the Diamond Dogs ski club trip. We're staying at Hotel Perren for what seems a similar price as last season at the Sandhof in Lech. I'd describe Perren as 90% of the quality of Sandhof, and that's intended as a compliment given Swiss prices. So a nice organization by Diamond Dogs' trip leader Jackie, who is here with Kingslug.

My perfect (?) luggage record on 4 Euro ski trips is still intact. My main suitcase did not make the 2 hour connection at JFK. Given that track record, I was prepared this time with a full set of ski clothing and accessories crammed into a carry-on backpack boot bag. The bag arrived shortly before dinner Sunday.

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The good news is that this trip clearly has the best snow conditions of my 4 Euro ski vacations. But what produces that snow is weather that can limit one's skiing at a high Alpine resort like this. So with day one weather predicted decent I hoped to cover more ground than the Dogs' planned schedule. Around 9:30 the group headed up the underground funicular railway to Sunnega, then the gondola to Blauherd. There was a fog patch on the warm up run back to Sunnega, Liz got ahead and did an extra lap. We got below the lift and eventually regrouped at Blauherd after riding the 2,000 vertical chair for Patrullarve. Though mostly overcast with occasional sunny breaks, there was no fog up high so we went up to Rothorn, the highest point of this sector at 10,177 feet. Rothorn has an 1,100 vertical chair on its NW side with 3 pistes. We were pleasantly surprised to find only occasional tracks in the powder between the pistes.
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On one of the runs I tried the chute just looker's left of the lift.
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My track is the highest emerging into the sun in foreground.

After runs here we skied off the back of Rothorn 3,000 vertical down the winding Piste #19 to Gant. View of this area from the other side of the valley later on.
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There were a few opportunities here to cut switchbacks and ski some fresh snow too. From Gant we took the gondola back to Blauherd, arriving at 12:10. Most people skied down to Sunnega for a scheduled 12:30 cafeteria lunch, but Liz and I decided to take an extra run down to Patrullarve. Some powder in scattered trees was too tempting to resist so we diverted left from #16.
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Eventually the trees became denser and we worked our way to Piste #8 and got to lunch about 1PM.

After lunch Liz and I were on our own, but I had an afternoon agenda based upon recommendations from Fraser Wilkins of http://www.weathertoski.co.uk/. First was the yellow (meaning ungroomed) ski route #10 down to Findeln.
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This faces south and the moguls down the middle were sometimes scraped off, but there were open sections of powder to the sides, a bit heavier but not crusty. We took the chair to Breitboden and Piste #26 over to Gant. Now we rode the 3,450 vertical tram to Hohtalli, intending to ski Piste #28 recommended by Fraser. But riding the tram we could see a huge empty and moderately steep bowl under the lift just skier’s right. View in that direction up toward Stockhorn at 11,600 feet.
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I told Liz I was going in there and she decided to follow. Here’s Liz approaching about 2/3 of the way down.
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The entry up high was between the tram cable and the building in the picture The bowl was 2,500 vertical and we were the only people in there at 3PM , so plenty of room to make our own tracks.
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When we got back to Gant Liz took the gondola up to Blauherd and skied back to Zermatt while I took another tram lap. This time I started down #28, but soon diverted into ski route #30, another expansive bowl not as steep as the previous run but still with some more powder. The gradual clearing progressed and the Matterhorn finally came into view.
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I skied down to Findeln, rode up to Sunnega and this classic view.
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There’s a long trail to the bottom with a nice overview of the town of Zermatt.
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24,500 vertical, 7K of powder, definitely one my best Euro ski days. The Davos Parsenn day last season was similar but on much mellower terrain. The parts of Zermatt I saw this first day have expansive off piste terrain that can be scoped from lifts more readily than most of the places I’ve skied in the Alps. Verbier was most comparable in this respect, but my day there was shorter with only a couple inches of fresh snow.
 
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I met Christopher Perren when we sat next to each other at dinner in an Italian restaurant in Zermatt on May 3, 1990.

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Good thing that Tony and I are around to populate the Europe forum with trip reports. :bow:

Is the plan to spend the entire week at Zermatt or will you visit other ski areas?

One assumes that Liz finally got her boot issues sorted out?
jasoncapecod":21wn25vg said:
I would drive back to Aspen and shove those boots up his a**
Did you follow Jason's advice?
 
A bus ride to Zermatt? We took a train from the Geneva airport right into Zermatt..Aren't gas powered vehicles prohibited?

The pic of the Matterhorn from the ski trail is stunning..The best views...
 
As pretty as it is from the ski runs, I vote for the final pic with the village in it.


Did you bring avi beacon, etc.. for your off-piste forays?
 
The bus goes to Tasch with a 10 minute shuttle up to Zermatt. My guess is that this is the cheapest way to do this with a group like a ski club. Also the train to Zermatt is not direct; There is a change in Brig or Visp. I think it's a different gauge railway.

Liz' boots are improved but not completely fixed. There will be another visit to Steve at Snowbird during Iron Blosam week.

I have my beacon, will wear it the last 2 days. It was in my suitcase so not available Sunday. Today I was supplied a beacon and harness by our off-piste guide.

We are here just this week, in Zermatt the whole time with Diamond Dogs. We only booked 3 weeks ahead, and since my annual Canadian trip starts Feb. 19 there was no time to extend. Liz agrees that if on our own we should go to the Alps for at least 2 weeks like my trip with Richard last season. The obvious reason is the fixed travel expense and hassle factor from the West Coast, not so applicable to easterners. The other reason is that you can get skunked for weather for the whole trip for just a week like Liz did in 2001. By the way this is also Adam's advice for Las Lenas, which has similar topography, scale and weather issues.
 
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And shovel? And probe? And for Liz? What about her? Does she have all requisite gear and most importantly, does she know how to use it efficiently and effectively? How about you? When was the last time you practiced a search?

If your beacon (and shovel and prove) was in the suitcase and your suitcase was lost, given the typical Euro avalanche control then you should have strongly considered staying on piste, or at a bare minimum given very careful thought to route selection. Did you? What analysis did you undertake in making those decisions?

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Admin":35mwbrdk said:
And shovel? And probe? And for Liz? What about her? Does she have all requisite gear and most importantly, does she know how to use it efficiently and effectively? How about you? When was the last time you practiced a search?
+1
Don't underestimate the risks.

Tony Crocker":35mwbrdk said:
The bus goes to Tasch with a 10 minute shuttle up to Zermatt. My guess is that this is the cheapest way to do this with a group like a ski club. Also the train to Zermatt is not direct; There is a change in Brig or Visp. I think it's a different gauge railway.

Only one transfer in Visp from Geneva to Zermatt. I had only two transfers from the small town in my in-laws. You still needed to transfer unto a shuttle to get to Zermatt with the bus.

Happy you got a better and clearer view of the Matterhorn than I did. Zermatt is the ultimate ski village (which is overrun with tourists in Summer - I wouldn't know about it in Winter, but I suspect it would be the same as Banff).
 
No time to go through a lot of pictures from clear days Tuesday and Wednesday. Lots of time on the slow trip home today to make some progress though.

The yellow "skiroutes" are not groomed but subject to avy control. I will concede that the boundary between a yellow run and uncontrolled off-piste is not well defined. The second Hohtalli run was yellow route #30. The first one was a couple of wide chutes dropping into another yellow run #31.

I'd be interested in jamesdeluxe's take on the subject as he is the one here who has had far more experience than I in the Alps. I'll also note that some pistes zigzag down an open bowl and there is untracked just sitting there between the switchbacks.
 
You didn't answer my questions. They weren't rhetorical. And no disrespect intended to Mr. Deluxe but he has zero experience in assessing risk in avalanche terrain.

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Admin":39k5g4y4 said:
Mr. Deluxe has zero experience in assessing risk in avalanche terrain.
I appreciate Tony promoting me to an expert in avalanche risk assessment, with neither the requisite training nor equipment! Hopefully, this includes an appropriate upgrade in my salary!

He may have been referring to how the Alps offpiste controlled/uncontrolled equation is like a Rohrschach Test for powder-hungry North American skiers and open to all sorts of interpretation. The authors of Where to Ski and Snowboard Worldwide (a great book for info about Alps ski resorts, albeit aimed at a mainstream UK ski audience) have editorialized repeatedly about how the definition and delineation of a "ski route" seems to vary from resort to resort, especially in the German-speaking regions, and can lead to confusion and potentially unwise decisions by skiers who may not have the skills, gear, or knowledge to drift into avy-prone terrain.

Since I fall into that ^^ category, the obvious standard operating procedure for me (unless I'm with an experienced local) is to avoid straying very far from marked trails, ski routes or otherwise. Given the easy pickins of untracked or lightly tracked snow so close to main arteries at the places I've skied, it hasn't been that much of an issue.
 
Best Euro trip ever..and we seem to have skied pretty much the same terrain, although at different times..all I kept saying day after day was " if this was Alta, this would all be tracked out in an hour"..we had new lines every day.
 
Admin":c7fjgpec said:
If your beacon (and shovel and prove) was in the suitcase and your suitcase was lost, given the typical Euro avalanche control then you should have strongly considered staying on piste, or at a bare minimum given very careful thought to route selection. Did you? What analysis did you undertake in making those decisions?

The spreadsheet reported that those routes have never slid when Americans are skiing them.
 
coldsmoke":dk8lmh75 said:
Admin":dk8lmh75 said:
If your beacon (and shovel and prove) was in the suitcase and your suitcase was lost, given the typical Euro avalanche control then you should have strongly considered staying on piste, or at a bare minimum given very careful thought to route selection. Did you? What analysis did you undertake in making those decisions?

The spreadsheet reported that those routes have never slid when Americans are skiing them.

:rotfl:

I noticed that the OP still deliberately ignores my questions. That speaks for itself. Blissful ignorance.
 
Admin":3lm95moj said:
I noticed that the OP still deliberately ignores my questions. That speaks for itself. Blissful ignorance.
Heh, Admin is gnawing on several pounds of flesh after Tony's relentless LCC armchair quarterbacking from Glendale. :lol:
 
Another travel day yesterday, I'm in Canada now.

Liz and I both have complete avy gear. Once or twice a year I'm doing a rescue drill at a cat or heli lodge. Mustang's is quite comprehensive, includes probing, shoveling and the search is for two buried transceiver backpacks at the same time. I could be wrong, but I suspect this is as much as admin and company practice in Utah, though I know admin has taken an Avy1 course. Liz has done 4 transceiver practices that I know about. Ice Axe did quite a bit of instruction in Ushuaia before the Antarctic cruise.

In Europe the guides provide transceivers and often harnesses but I have not seen any search drills and have noted comments about this online. I remember a practice with Extremely Canadian in Las Lenas; there probably was one in La Grave though I don't recall it specifically.

Most of the powder skiing was with Liz on intermediate pitched terrain, next to or between pistes similar to james' descriptions. The steeper sectors were nearly all on or adjacent to the yellow marked ungroomed ski routes. The big exception (which Liz did not ski) was the bowl below Plateau Rosa on Tuesday. Admin can tell us whether he would have declined to ski this:
file.php


The avy report was moderate until wind loading raised it to considerable on Wednesday. And as noted there was an avalanche on Stockhorn Wednesday. One of the guided Diamond Dogs' groups saw it happen, and kingslug's group was in the area about 15 minutes before.
 
Tony Crocker":9lg58g7m said:
Liz and both have complete avy gear.

But neither of you were using it. What good is owning it if you're not using it? It was in delayed luggage, yet that didn't dissuade you from jumping in. And the whole point of having avalanche gear on you is that you never want to have to use it. Smart decision making should make a beacon, shovel and probe irrelevant, but I've heard nothing to convince me that there was even a single iota of informed decision making involved.

Tony Crocker":9lg58g7m said:
Most of the powder skiing was with Liz on intermediate pitched terrain, next to or between pistes similar to james' descriptions.

And what was above it? Do you remember? Did you even look to assess it? What was required on the exit? Any convex rollovers? Any windloading? Any embedded rocks below the surface to heat the snowpack? Unless you've seen it in summer, you'd have no way to know.

Tony Crocker":9lg58g7m said:
The steeper sectors were nearly all on or adjacent to the yellow marked ungroomed ski routes. The big exception (which Liz did not ski) was the bowl below Plateau Rosa on Tuesday.

So, not only were you lacking gear for that "big exception", but you were lacking a partner, too.

Tony Crocker":9lg58g7m said:
Admin can tell us whether he would have declined to ski this:
file.php

I seriously hope that you're not asking me to judge the safety of your route from a photograph. That requires in-person situational analysis. And frankly, what you're insinuating here is even more disturbing than that. Be aware that I don't make my decisions on what to ski and what to back away from from the "powder fever" of how it looks, and I hope that you don't either, but everything you're posting is convincing me otherwise. As Socal posted at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11349&start=15#p71335, "I'd guess that there wasn't much in the way of risk assessment."

The most important piece of avalanche safety gear that you own is your head, but you have yet to explain the decision making process that you went through before deciding to dive in. What was above? And frankly, you had no idea what was below -- a terrain trap, or perhaps worse. I can't see it in that photograph because the slope to the right increases in pitch and disappears out of view, so from where you were standing you couldn't see it either. You had no idea whether or not you'd have to traverse below avi-prone slopes to get out of there. If it was a dangerous spot, anything that might happen to you would also unnecessarily put potential rescuers at risk. Honestly, you had no clue what you were doing.

From your conspicuous silence in response to my requests to explain your decision making process, I'd guess that you jumped in blindly, blissfully ignorant to the risks involved. That's hardly novel, for I've witnessed you do that on the few occasions that I've brought you out in Patsy Marley. I've asked you to cross certain slopes one at a time and subsequently watched you push off on the traverse 15 feet behind another member of the party, completely ignoring my instruction. I've asked you to stand there and focus on your partner in case something went awry, but you didn't even bother to turn around. Honestly, you've not done anything to convince me that you'd recognize a wind-loaded slope if it fell on you, but unfortunately you're not alone -- some of even my regular ski posse have frustrated me in the same way.

The second most important piece of gear is your partner, but you had none. It's one thing to unnecessarily put yourself at risk, it's another thing altogether to subject someone else to an error in judgment. That's about the only good thing to come of you going it alone in this case -- the only lives that could have been lost would have been your own and perhaps those of some responders. The downside, of course, is that if you were buried you'd be long dead by the time they found your frigid corpse.

Lowest on the list of importance is a beacon, shovel and probe. The best plan is to not need it. Furthermore, it's useless without your brain and a partner, and owning it isn't sufficient -- you have to use it. When you were here a few weeks ago you were chomping at the bit to head out of bounds, but you didn't bother even bringing your beacon along because you wanted to "travel light," as if a beacon weighs more than a few ounces and takes more than a few cubic inches of luggage space.

Tony, you're a good friend, and I'd like to be able to continue to enjoy the company of your friendship for many years to come. May I suggest an Avalanche Level I course while you're here next month?
http://utahavalanchecenter.org/provider/level-1-3
If Tyson is teaching that course (and I presume that he is) you'll learn a ton. I'll even go so far as to take it with you, for reinforcement is a good thing. How serious are you about acquiring some mountain awareness? The ball's in your court.
 
I'm convinced that this whole Zermatt narrative is a masterfully executed troll from Tony to inflate the view count on his threads. :^o
 
And he found time in the past day to reply to other threads and even post an extensive new one, but he's conveniently ignoring this one again.
 
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